OK.. This has been one of the longest winters in recent memory so I am hoping my crews 3 month long pissy fit will end with the first nice couple days of spring.
That being said. I have never had a motivational problem before. My guys have always gotten along excellently. We golf several times in the summer plus dinners, bbq’s etc etc. It seems that over the last 3-4 months, everyone has developed a sever pissy attitude.
I could really use some suggestions as to help get my guys out of this slump. I’ve had the same guys for over 3 years & never had this issue before. Or certainly not to this extent.
Anyone got any ideas?
Replies
Paychecks you sign not enough motivation? I'm on the you don't work you don't get paid program for my motivation.
Paychecks are not the primary motivators for a happy job. Studies have shown that there are quite a few more important factors. Yes, getting paid is a huge part of the job but if the other more important factors aren't considered and catered too, the workers will be unhappy. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Ted
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=101822.1
Complaint free world.
Commit to living 21 days without complaining.
If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it change your attitude. Don't complain.
Rich
cabin fever and SADS ... Spring and a backlog of work will fix most of it
it's the golfing...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Ted,
You've outlined the problem, now what is the cause.. You've gone beyond any obligation as an employer. So now you need to deal with a problem..
Is there one trouble maker? One guy who complains and the others follow? Then it's time for a frank discussion (in private). explain that while the work performed is good the atttitude is wrong and needs to be corrected now..
Listen to any complaint offered as justification and decide if you can correct it or it's his problem. Get things resolved at that meeting with a promise of no more attitude or tell him you are forced to let him go.. (and then let him go)
There are a lot of good skilled workers looking desperately for a job now so a replacemen as good or better should be no trouble..
However if everyone feels that way you need to look at yourself and see what you are doing to cause the attitude.. Be honest with yourself.. decide if you can correct it or not. Ask yourself if you are sharing the currant market fairly,, are they forced to carry too much of the burden of poor market conditions.
I've heard this said many times by successfull people.. If you take care of your people the numbers will come if you take care of the numbers the people will go..
Ted... ride it out if you've otherwise been happy with your crew. Good crews are tough to assemble. My crew (and myself included to some extent) have been going through the same thing. The winter is a grind. I'm a framer, so we're out in 'it' all winter long and still banging out 50 hour weeks. My laborer quit in the middle of February, called me in tears on a Friday night, said he just couldn't do it any more and he "felt like he was dieing". LOL... that's a bit extreme, but I can relate. He said a big part of the problem was that he would just come home and crash... it was all he could manage. The wife was upset cuz he never had the energy to help with the kids or do anything socially. I can relate. So you never really know what else is going on in their lives that manifests itself as jobsite 'bitchin'.
As fate would have it, we just hit a two and a half week drought. It couldn't have come at a better time and I don't say that about work droughts very often. But the truth is, we all needed a break, whether or not our bank accounts agree is another story but I help my guys get through the slow periods. For the first week I just concentrated on myself. The truck was filthy, tools were broken, the trailer was a mess and I had plans to bid. I just left it all in the driveway. I started getting back to eating healthy/organic instead of take-out and working out every day instead of a day here and there. Started sleeping right again instead of just 'passing out'. In just that one week I started to feel like a new man again. This past week I've gotten caught up on my office work at night and been cleaning up the truck, trailer, and gear. Also fixed all the broken stuff and am currently building us a new mitersaw table. (Just came in for lunch). I'm already itching to get framing again... and will on Monday.
The short version is.... perhaps you all can use a break. It's only natural. That "work to live" line starts getting blurred with "live to work" in the heat of battle. Any chance there might be a break in the near future's schedule to shut down for a week? Perhaps there some funds available to offer your guys a paid week off or at least a bit of nut to help them get through it?
And to answer another poster's suggestion.... No, a paycheck isn't enough of a motivation at times. However, a rewarding job can be. Or working for someone who you have genuine interest in seeing succeed is. Or having guys who work for you that you actually care about can be too. Running a crew is as much about successfully managing personalities as it about building houses. If everybody was self-motivated, everybody would have their own businesses. Some guys like to be lead, others like to lead, and few will admit to either. Never underestimate the human element in this business. I treat my guys like family and the favors return themselves ten fold. I carry my guys through slow spots in the schedule and help them when asked with personal situations. As a result, I can leave a frame for two weeks and take a vacation and not stress about it. Or my guys will go the extra mile for me when needed.... Saturdays, Sundays, working 7am until 8pm if necessary.
BTW Ted.... welcome to Breaktime. Stick around brother. Where you out of?
Edited 3/27/2008 12:04 pm ET by dieselpig
It seems that every winter I get these spots where I'm just sick
of it all. As an employee I try to find something to do that is at the
other end of the house. The 2 weeks without work is good also.
I just hope your guys are not like the ones I used to work with,
broke 1 hour after getting paid. 50 hour weeks in the winter is awful
tough. My employer used to be balls to the wall 50-70 hour weeks.
You will lose a lot of good guys no matter what they are paid. Now
he has structured work as 7-4:30 5 days a week. 45 hour weeks.
When the weather sucks go home, it doesn't help a persons attitude
much.
Personnaly I think it seems to be human nature to wish spring would
just arrive.
Every crew I have ever worked or employeed has these end of winter
problems.
Vacations help a lot..
My laborer quit in the middle of February, called me in tears on a Friday night, said he just couldn't do it any more and he "felt like he was dieing". LOL... that's a bit extreme, but I can relate. He said a big part of the problem was that he would just come home and crash... it was all he could manage. The wife was upset cuz he never had the energy to help with the kids or do anything socially. I can relate. So you never really know what else is going on in their lives that manifests itself as jobsite 'bitchin'.
I loved working winters for some reason. By 10 or so the hat and gloves were gone. The air was crisp and clear. My pace was good and it just seemed more fun. Well, all but the shoveling off after a storm.
I didn't realize how much my wife hated it until we hit a winter with a bunch of blizzards. Since we were home one and two days a week that year, she was excited that I had the energy to do all the things we hadn't been.
Then I started to think about all the times I started my truck to wamr up while I packed tools. And on the hour drive home? Had to pull over and nap for 15 or 20 minutes because it was all I could do to keep my eyes open.
After that I started to look forward to snow days
I loved working winters for some reason. By 10 or so the hat and gloves were gone. The air was crisp and clear. My pace was good and it just seemed more fun. Well, all but the shoveling off after a storm.
LOL... Robert, I think you're remembering the Hollywood version of the "the good 'ole days".... romance and all. The week my laborer quit it never got over 15 degrees and the wind howled all week. There was no, "taking off the gloves and hat" unless you wanted to go home with frost bite from the windchill. I agree, a cold crisp winter day with the bright sun and a good pace is nice. Those days exist too. But they're not the ones that burn you out. It's not seing the sun for three weeks, walking on frozen ruts with lumber on your shoulder, 50 hour weeks under grey skies, and being damp and cold the whole day... no matter how hard you work.... that causes burn out. View Image
wedensday I work 5:30 am to 9 pm, thursday it was 5:30 am to 2 am, friday was 5:30 am to 7 pm. I got 68 hours this week. so DW ask me what I,m doing this weekend. Nothing, at all. rent me a DVD "will smith I am Legend" gonna do my income tax and thats all for two days
No,
I truely love working in the winter. Not much on summer.
On the other hand, the average day round my parts would be in the 20's. 15 would be cold. New Jersey is just south enough of Mass to make the difference. At 20 or so I can still get my gloves off as long as I'm moving constantly. At that temp I can get away with good boots and one pair of socks but much higher and my feet will be soaked with sweat and I have to go back to uninsulated boots. One piece long johns and L.L. Bean jeans.
Below zero we packed it in usually. Hard to keep guns going and guys who struggle with the cold start to make mistakes, and sometimes dangerous ones.
Never understood jobsite fires either. Just make it worse. Never get comfortable until you can stay comfortable.
Must be a biological thing. I've never minded winter. Still love it now. I feel for guys who are bothered by the cold. It has to be miserible for them day after day.
Are you guys using Dry lumber or green?
My biggest shock when moving back from Florida was going from dry lumber to green lumber. On a crew that had no lift or power ladder and moved everything by hand.
Somehow, frozen green lumber feels about 700 times heavier than even wet green lumber.
"Never understood jobsite fires either. Just make it worse. Never get comfortable until you can stay comfortable."See above pic.My jobsite friend always kept my tools from freezing. I never had to work with wet gloves. The glue was always warm enough to ooze freely. When a chill started to creep over me, I simply walked three feet and hugged my friend for 30 seconds and all was well.I never had to bundle up with too man clothes. A typical winter wardrobe was: one longsleeved turtleneck cotton undershirt. One medium weight sweatshirt....no hood. One hunters hat. One pair of normal cotton baggy sweatpants...no long underwear. One pair of normal socks and one pair of workboots (usually insulated). The little firebucket never, ever made things worse. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
do you keep an ice bucket in summer? keeps the shingles cool
If it ever gets hot in the summer, I'll use that ice bucket idea. Thanks! They told me Texas was hot and it never even hit 110 last summer. I was quite disappointed.I would install a bigggg fan on the sky box if I was working in Texas though. I'd probably add a misting device for those working at the table and on the deck. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Edited 3/30/2008 2:59 pm by Jim_Allen
This is one of my most critical tools to help me keep my spirits up all winter. This picture shows my spiritual friend up in the skybox with me. I don't care if it's 15 degrees and windy....she'll warm my soul and allow me to function without whining. When I run low on fuel, I have to start working faster to create scraps to feed her. The boys used to know that I wouldn't get out of the truck till I saw signs of her calling me. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
LOL... that's priceless Blue. View Image
Do you sing DOO WOP songs around the fire?????Whoops better edit this thats because in NYC and NJ people would sing around the fire on the sidewalk
Edited 3/29/2008 4:43 pm ET by bobbys
what's wrong wit you?they sing campfire songs!"Kum ba yah, my Lord, Kum ba yah,
Kum ba yah, my Lord, Kum ba yah
Kum ba yah, my Lord, Kum ba yah
Oh Lord, Kum ba yah.People singing Lord, Kum ba yah,
People singing Lord, Kum ba yah
People singing Lord, Kum ba yah
Oh Lord, Kum ba yah.We are happy Lord, Kum ba yah...Children playing Lord, Kum ba yah...Nations fighting Lord, Kum ba yah...Mothers weeping Lord, Kum ba yah...Families mourning Lord, Kum ba yah..
.
Why this fighting Lord, Kum ba yah...Peace in our time Lord, Kum ba yah...So we're praying Lord, Kum ba yah..."
Barry E-Remodeler
I stand corrected
Running a crew is as much about successfully managing personalities as it about building houses. If everybody was self-motivated, everybody would have their own businesses. Some guys like to be lead, others like to lead, and few will admit to either. Never underestimate the human element in this business.
Very well said.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Some guys like to be lead, others like to lead, and few will admit to either.I like to work alone, so I dont have to babysit anyone.
I absolutely agree about a paycheck being a secondary motivation. The work that we do and the way we do it are the main thing. That is what the OP needs to focus on and it seems like he is. That is at least half the battle.
Exellent post
Nice post... good thread.
Have to agree about the paycheck...money is often not the issue.
Hit the same point last year myself. It's just my installer and me, and at the time I was working a full-time job in addition to my kitchen work, meaning I often worked till 1 am. My installer, who actually "belongs" to the company I freelance through, was leaving for work at 2 am and getting off at 6-7 pm, 6-7 days a week, because the company had fired 2 other installers. He said he was just dying when he got home. He couldn't spend time with his family; his 4-year-old daughter asked if he didn't love her anymore because he wouldn't play with her. His migraines flared up and he often worked in lots of pain. At one point, he was almost determined not to do installation any longer because he just didn't care.
The cabinet company, however, thought the installer should shut up and be glad of all the money he was making. I even heard remarks about how he was "falling off" in performance and wasn't himself. Small wonder...
Take them out for a day of R&R as a group, it's mandatory, and it may or may not be paid depending on the financial situation of your company, thats up to you.
Golfing, Bowling, Paint-Ball....
Find something where they can let loose and have a little fun.
Tell them the reason is their collective attitude sucks at the moment and you want to build the team back up, ask them why they're all PMS-ing you might be able to get to the bottom of it.
Edit: I'm not suggesting one day is going to fix things, rather use it to get to the bottom of the problem.
Edited 3/27/2008 2:20 pm ET by CAGIV
I would agree, and add that a scheduled three/four dayweekend for their own personal items/family members would definately help too.
Sounds like burnout.
Sittin' in a hotel in Columbus right nnow with the family just killin' burnout. Four days of family time after working every day since xmas day - 12 to 16 every day.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Edited 3/27/2008 5:20 pm ET by JHOLE
Take them out for a day of R&R as a group,we have a triple a minor ball team here, once a year the owner will shut the office down and take everybody to a ball game. 143 employees.
i went through this and did everything i could, Looking back they just got to a point they disrespected me and i should have brought in new guys, Im only blaming myself though, Another crew would have given them something to think about and i would not have been scared of having no crew, I needed more workers but wanted my crew to get all the hours, In the end they just left me and i had nobody, I should have had a few guys on call.Not saying this is whats going on by you just one thing to think about, If there getting fussy now whats gonna happen in the dog days of summer?
Move to North Carolina.
.
.
"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
I think Diesel is right about a break. I was always looking for one till I started panelizing everything.
If you've been working steady enough and they're not all behind on their bills, then maybe they just need to mentally decide to be happy. I walked onto the job the other day and one of the guys was grumpy. Within one minute I was having my "I passed by a guy that would trade places with you in an instant" talk. I make them realize that there are millions of people that would switch places with us in a heartbeat and get on their knees every day to say thanks.
One of my favorite stories I tell is that one day I was driving past an old VFW home for the aged. One old vet was bent over walking out front and was moving along at a snail like pace...maybe five steps per minute. I always point out that the if the Vet was offered the young mans job, but he'd have to work long hours for the next fifty years in a row, the old guy would find a way to jump for joy and click his heels. He'd make the switch in a heartbeat.
Happiness is a state of mind and even the grumpiest worker can be cajoled into making the decision to be happy. It's a decision. Unhappiness can spread like cancer so I like to nip it in the bud...directly and immediately. I wouldn't be opposed to terminating someone if they couldn't find a way to come around.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
If it were me I'd throw a party at my house.........
pizzas, beer, poker or pool AFTER the company meeting where I'd give a short explaination of the coming year and also the fact that I'm damn sick and tired of the attitude/vibes these guys are throwing off.........
"Times are tough shut the F up and be glad you have a job"......then I'd tell them I love them and toss everybody a beer........they'll remember the beer.
It could be you're so close to the situation you don't notice what's changed and caused the problem. Perhaps some relationships between crew members have changed do to on the clock, or after hour happenings. Perhaps some bad attitudes have slowly crept in and it's hard to identify because it's happened so slowly.
My guess is there is a problem at the top or very near the top and it's dragging everyone down. If you are working alongside the crew on a daily basis I'd guess it's you, or if you have a lead taking care of daily construction leadership it's probably him.
Maybe it's the type of projects you are taking on during the winter months, maybe it's the people, or maybe the crew has met a crew that seems to be getting more of the pie and they feel screwed for staying where they are, but it's not enough to get them to jump ship.
Regardless, good attitude and passion for building is contagous and needs to be reinjected into what you are doing.
If you know there is a problem person don't ignore it regardless of how long they have worked for you, or you'll lose good carps that will go elsewhere to avoid a crew that's crabby all day every day.
Best of luck!
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
The cabinet shop I used to work in had a sign on the wall- Thou Shalt Not Whine.
Don't know how effective it was, but it was always there as a reminder.
Expert since 10 am.
Lol, where has Ted gone? Nice post, Brian. Typical post and dodge.
bump
"He said "Buck up baby, it's okay. The sunlight on the floor will always fall." ~ Sarah Harmer
If there's one guy on the job who constantly comes to work crabby, let him go. sometimes you may have to pick the lesser of two evils if theres two guys who can't seem to get along.
I stayed with my last boss for five yaers working with the lousiest, cryingest knowitall jerk I have ever met because I wanted to learn from the boss. I was the only guy who ever lasted more than six months working with this a$$hole but I put up with it for the experience.
I'm on my own now and the old boss is stuck there with this guy. Oh he's good but the boss doesnt realize how much better he'd do with a couple of guys who got along. They're working long hours now to finish a house because he can't find anyone to work with his helper. The guy has been with him for about 12-13 yrs and now its just to late to let him go