Here’s my new shower prior to cover. My tile man deemed it the Mazaratti of showers (spelling?). The first consern was satisfying my wife and her needs ie. primary and handheld shower heads, room for soap and shampoo and a bench seat. Once achieved, I got into the picture. I framed it 4′ x 6′ w/ 36′ knee walls flanking the opening. The bench seat is suspended using conceiled steel struts I welded and mounted to the walls. The knee walls are clad w/ 1 1/2″ x 2″ steel angle iron which extends down into the joist bay and is braced off below. The soap and shampoo nooks are 3/4″ ply. pcs. glued and stapeled to the framing w/ 1/4″ x 1 7/8″ senco staples. All plumbing is pex and abs, Grohe valves and heads. I opted to run the radiant tubing through the floor, up the walls and over the bench seat (warm feet, warm walls and warm butt). All the radiant tubing was zip-tied to 3/4′ ply blocking which too was stapeled to the framing (I used this method for predominently every blocking/backing application throughout the house, much easier, much faster and no blow-outs). There is a steamer unit installed which is run down to the mechanical room (the heated walls will expediate the warm-up time). The ventillation is run through two 1′ x 12″ slotted vents run through a remote blower in the attic (this also vents the toilet room and the main body of the bathroom). I’ll have more pictured when the limestone goes up and the 3/8″ glass panels and doors.
She better like it!
Replies
how do you keep the water from soaking everything else in the room?
I'll be using an 'Agalite' glasing system. 3/8" glass panels on the sides w/ a 3/8" glass door (bi-swing). They provide a clear low-profile gasket which runs the perimeter of the door. Also (not shown) is the arched top opening I finnaly got around to framing.
Keep the pix coming. It'll be interesting to watch how it fleshes out. Thanks for taking the time. Interested in learning if you find the heated walls make a noticeable difference.
Very coool,
Very large, do you shower as a family in that? Neighbors, dogs, cats?
I forgot to mention the "wet-bar" that pops out of the wall... for that group thang!
Oh god, I hope I get invited to the opening?
Wet Bar popping out of the wall you say? Happens every time I reach into that dang recessed soap holder! When did they start calling it a feature? :-)>Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
I forgot to mention the "wet-bar" that pops out of the wall... for that group thang!
.........you mean 'that grope thing'!
Pretty cool phil- I think you kinda cheezed out on the light fixtures though:-)
Are those vents at the ridge of the shower? If so what kind are they?
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Yea, I'm kinda limited to what the electrical inspector will allow. They're 5" halo recessed cans which I can run a 75w par 30. Unfortunately I get to choose from their cheezy trims w/ opaque lenses. I'll replace them later w/ etched lenses of my own. Since they're hooked into the lutron lighting system maybe I'll creat a program where they'll strobe on and off or do something funky!
I'm using an "Elicent AXC" remote fan for the whole bathroom. The unit is up away in the attic attatche to a manifold which then runs to two 1"x12" slotted vents in the shower, one in the toilet room and one in the main portion of the bathroom over the tub. It too is wired through the lutron system so I can switch it on near the tub, in the toilet room and at the other entry to the bathroom. It could also be set up on a timed sequence and duration for air exchange if necessary. The beauty of this setup is not only a low profile vent apeture (which will have a brushed stainles steel trim) but this is as quiet as they get!
Very cool,I can't wait For more shots as you progress............"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Heres a close-up of the lid
That vent system is going to suck the hair off the top of your head...............
Should work great for getting all the moisture out of there.
I also like lots of light in the shower.....I was just pullin your leg on the lightbulbs hanging down.......
Thanks for posting pictures of the progress"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I figured you were yankin my chain. I think it comes down to the bigger issue of how some codes out there are a little too ludacrist. Now a lense in the shower is necesary, however I'm also required to have lenses on the lights over my tub? Give me a break! I dont need them over my vanities, I dont need them over my kitchen sink. Oh and heres one for you now that you got me going.
Today I'm out trenching, laying conduit and a remote meter base for a replacement electrical service (getting rid of the overhead lines). I'm required to post this remote meter such that the elevation of the glass meter is five feet above grade. I thought three feet would be more asthetically pleasing. I inquired as to why it had to be five, the reply was "It's a Health and Saftey issue". Damn beaurocrats! Makes me want to stick my tongue in a receptical.
Thats government for you, protecting us from ourselves!
Won't the ceiling vents remove all of the steam from the shower when you have the steam system on ? Do you only turn on the fan when you are just going to shower ?
carpenter in transition
Yes, fans on when showering, fans off when steaming. I'm posting a picture of the manifold I spoke of earlier. This manifold connects to the fan then branches to the individual locations.
this is all rather spectacular before I arrived here on breaktime I was on a MSN homepage and they have some wonderful slides of life in these United States ( w/ wonderful soundtracks I might add ) all pictures taken by citizenry w/ digital cameras and available in a book worth a look my favorite picture is of two naked kids in a galvanized half can full of water with a wood fire below as their parents look admiringly at their brood
will look forward to your updates
I realize that the heat is somewhat of a luxury item. I have built many stone or large tile mass showers but don't actually use one myself. Is cold really that much of an issue? Don't get me wrong, I'm not bustin' on you for the heat thing but have a real interest in it's neccesity and how much (seasonaly) it is used.
Will the underside of the seat be enclosed?
I gotta ask; what are the purple thingies in the manifold photo?
Nice work, lots of thought put into it, is this a new house for yourself?
Eric
firebird,
The main reason I put heat in the walls was to assist the steamer unit in getting up to speed, also it will be nice to lean against especially wile seated. There in an outdoor temperature sensor which will help regulate the seasonal temperature settings.
Yes, the bottom of the seat will be covered w/ the limestone tile.
Those purple wires in the ceiling are speaker wires. They're zig-zaged like that so I have a bigger target to hit when I cut the holes in the sheet rock. Heres a tip I learned wile installing them: after stapeling them w/ hooped staples, snip the center of the staple, it makes it easier to pull free when taking up the slack.
Finnaly check out message thread # 36531.1 its a brief description of what I'm dooing here.
Thanks
Phil k
My four foot square stone slab shower with an eight foot ceiling takes a good two or three minutes to get nice and comfy inside (in a california coastal climate). Directly under the water you are fine from the minute you turn it on but it is nice to be able to shut it off or step out from under the water without getting cold.
I think Phill has the right idea in heating the shower but I am skeptical the tubing in the walls can effectively transfer heat with out something to help conduct the heat to them. More than likely the heated floor and bench will keep the walls from ever getting much colder if they are heated around the clock.
I had planned on getting a GFX heat exchanger but the water is markedly colder leaving the shower (drain). I assume this would be less the case if my walls had less thermal mass. ie I think my walls take so much energy to heat up that there is relatively little heat left in the used water by the time it leaves the shower.
Aesthetically I don't like it but I imagine the corian shower enclosures are a pretty good material for conserving heat.
Karl
Here's the latest. The pre-slope was installed, then the pan liner, then the moisure barrior up the walls, then the dry-pack floor was set then the concrete board. As I stated w/ my tub pictures, my tile guy starts this monday so I'm thrilled to death!
shwr7 : view from left
shwr8 : view from right
shwr9 : view of bench
shwr10 : view from inside
Thanks for all the feedback!
Phil K
that's not a shower...
It's a "love cave"
>> That's government for you, protecting us from ourselves!
Oh, it's not your health and safety the government is protecting here, it's for the meter readers, so they won't have to bend over and hurt their backs when they read the meter.
Nice shower. I plumbed for a steam unit in mine but it is still on the wish list. We put in a shower head at waist level which my 2 yr old loves. I encourage anyone with young kids or grandkids to put an additional showerhead in at kid height.
I know my 4 by 4 foot shower with stone slab walls takes a while to heat up so I am intrigued by the radiant tubing. The floor and bench make sense as you will have a mortar bed to help conduct the heat from the tubing to the interior of the shower.
In the walls how will the tubing conduct the heat? Are you filling the wall cavities with mortar? When I retrofitted a floor with radiant heat I had to use aluminum plates that snap over the tubing to help conduct the heat from the tubes to the underside of the floor.
Karl
The tubes in the wall are basically pressed against the backside of my conc. board. I installed the 3/4" backing 1/2" inset from the framind (the dia. of the tube) the rest of the field is pressed towards the conc. board w/ the batt insul. for sound. This will act like most pin- up applicatiions where you're heating a plentum rather than a heat mass. Since it is run on a zone by itself, I'll be able to regulate its temp. as necessary.
Edited 11/7/2003 9:15:28 AM ET by PhillK
Hey Phil, Let's see some more pictures of that fancy bathroom..........
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
He can't he's enjoying that double shower to much with the misses, no time for pics,
well least none that would fly here...
Been buisy installing int. trim and cabinets. I have the floor surfaces installed and we're starting the shower now. Will attatch photos soon.
Tnx.
Now wait a minute Phil. This new digital age is just a point and click thingView Image
So let's see the pictures of you installing cabinets and trim.View ImageView Image"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Did you mention a heat lamp anywhere? They sure make it warm in a hurry around that spot. Of course, it may make your inspector see red.
If you put the towels under them, like we do here (the shower glass top is right below) it warms them well.
Last week we had our hydronic heat system fired up. As I mentioned in another posting , we purchased a propane fired "Munchkin Boiler" The thing is awesome! With a rated 92% efficiency, the temporary set temperature is at 110 degrees right now, and the whole house is too damn hot. The in-floor and in-wall tubing is performing beyond expectations in the shower. Here are some shots of the Water handling environment in my mechanical room.
You'll see the boiler (top right) , the side hot water tank (bot right), the steam generator (top left) and the "Kinetico" water filtration system (bot left) All of these seat within a space of 3' x 6'. It reminds me of the engine rooms of the fishing boats I used to work on up in Alaska. Still have temporary wiring up, but it's getting there!
hey phil..
shower looks great.. we are planning on building shower of the same dimensions..
how wide did you go with the shower door? 36"?
thanks
oak
I'm going with a 30" door. Manufactured by Agalite, it is 3/8" tempered glass with brushed nickel hinges. The door will be flanked by two glass panels that will seat in slots let into the tile perimeter. Since it's a steam shower there are also clear, low profile gaskets which are applied to the door edges.
curious... what you'll do on the bottom of the seat to cover the iron? (I use to build bars (commerical) and one of my deals was to use iron supports like you did to mount all the sinks & ice bins behind the bars so that it'd be easy to clean up... no legs to mop around) i found it made it stronger if i ran the iron in the wall as long as i could up & down... maybe 16" both ways and when i could i used stainless steel (these were all left exposed) i don't know how i'd do any job without a welder, a torch and a supply of steel close by...
anyway.... that is a nice shower.... on my last one i ran a roman tub outlet at about 8" off the floor... that way you test the water for temp with your foot before let'n it hit your face...
Pony
The iron support bars are sandwiched between a layer of 3/4 ply on the top which was dadoed out to recieve a portion of the brackets. Then a layer of 1/2" cement board was glued and screwed to the bottom of the plywood. The bottom will get tile applied to it with a band of 1/4" mosaic tiles on the face, finally a tile cap will cover the top.
I bought myself a HOBART mig welder a few years ago and use it all the time in construction and carpentry. It's nice to be able to incorporate a highly structural element such as steel in custom applications. Hell, I now make my own steel jigs, tables, stands, brackets, tool carts, cabinets, you name it! Helps keep those creative juices flowing. If you can't find it, make it!
Phil
The tiling in the shower is under-way! The floor is set, and after alot of layout and head scratching, we have an idea of how it will work. So here's a picture of the bench seat. The top and bottom tiles will sandwich 1/4" mosaic tiles. We're using the swirl accent tile as a horizontal band, however the wife nixed the wavy one on top. More pictures to come soon!
Hi Phil
As I mentioned earlier, I am doing some stuff like yours. Sure hope it turns out as beautifully.
In the pics of your boiler room, I can see the pump and mixing valve, but I can't see the manifold for the radiant piping PEX. Is that in another room? And did you run the whole system off one pumb with thermostatically controlled zone valves, or how. Also, does the Munchkin produce DHW?, and how do you have that controlled. Does the DHW get priority, somehow, over the RFH? Do you use an outside reset?
I was going to use a large DHW heater for my heat source, but seeing how compact your Munchkni is I'll have to reconsider.
Also, why such a elaborate filtration system?
Can you tell me what I can expect to pay for such a MUNCHKIN?
Thanks
STef
Stef
Since my house is a rambler, I have the luxury of a wide open crawl space. There are two manifold locations currently handling ten zones. Pase two of my remodel will include a third manifold for the residence and a loop for the future garage. Each zone is thermostatically controlled with Tecmar T-stats.
I'm using a 60 gal Boiler mate for DHW. I'll ask my plumber how it all is integrated. He told me once, I'll find out. I believe the Munchkin was around $1700. The filtration system has a pre-filter , then a water softener then a sulfur filter. We're on a new well w/ semi- high percentages of iron, maganese, and intolerable sulfur stink. With this Kinetico system, all is wiped out, and with minimal flow reduction. You get what you pay for! Don't ask how much for this set-up. Might have to get into the bottled water buisness.
Edited 12/10/2003 12:15:22 AM ET by PhillK
Thanks,
Do you have separate pumps for each zone, or one pump controlled by something like a zone controller, where the pump is turned on by the thermostat, as the zone valve is opened. Seems like, with so many zones, you would have to have multiple pumps.
Sounds like a great system. Mine will be smaller, with only 5 zones, several of which are only turned on when there are visitors.
Appreciate your series on the bath. It's stupendous.
Stef
There is one pump that is controlled by a zone controller. Give me time to get the specs from my plumber. As I am, he too is totaly impressed by this system. Like technology goes, with time they get smaller, faster and m ore efficient.
Hope to reach the summit by nightfall tomorrow. Here's where we're at today!
Things have slowed to a crawl here in shower land. I'm not bumming though, I know I'm getting the best job possible. Hats-off to my tile man Joe! Take a look at the jigging and bracing involved with the lid (#13&14). Also a progress pic of the soap/shampoo nooks. Using the same mosaic wich will line the edge of the bench seat (#15).
what did your guy use to get the perfect looking circles in the tile?
He uses a 4" grinder w/ diamond blade.
that's the way I do it, but I can't get circles to come out that smooth..
good looking shower
Any up date to the dream shower?
"Do you have separate pumps for each zone, or one pump controlled by something like a zone controller, where the pump is turned on by the thermostat, as the zone valve is opened. Seems like, with so many zones, you would have to have multiple pumps"
Many ways to skin a cat. You can zone with valves or circs. There are advantages and downsides to each approach. The Munchkin folks have specific piping suggestions for each config. The big thing to consider with a low mass boiler is to get enough flow through the heat exchanger.
As you can see from the photo, there are 2 circs visible. These run as 'parallel' loops; one for space heating, and one for the DHW. They do not 'step on' each other because they never operate at the same time. The DHW is a 'priority' zone, so space heating is shut down when the DHW calls for heat. Beyond that, the photo does not show the finished install.
hey phillk.....
there is probably a bunch of us around here wondering how the bathroom turned out...
do you have any pics of the completed shower, and maybe the rest of the bathroom as well?
thanks