We are working in a house with a mysterious problem – brown drops appear only on the hall walls, surface of the paint. The drops are waxy, greasy. When cleaned they re-appear in about a month or two.
one story with basement/ hip roof/ medium well insulated (loose fibreglas)/ hot water heat/ natural gas/ flu pipe is close to hall (in closet), 6 doors enclose the 4 ft x 8 ft hall/ house used to heat mostly with wood (chimney was about 25 feet away from hall, now is removed)/ loose fitting and untrimmed pull down stairway in hall – see pic)/ not sure about attic ventilation, forgot to check sorry/
Any idea of what this might be?
Replies
Interesting! I've got a client complaining of the same thing - hers look more like blood, though.
She cleans them; they come back
Big old house.
Hmm.
In that bathroom that no-one goes in anymore
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Forrest
Edited 9/22/2007 11:32 pm by McDesign
Time to call in CSI
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When was the murder? ;)
Do you think the marks are getting onto the surface, or could they be bleeding through from the back?
It could be that you're getting condensation on the upper walls and it's running down, collecting dirt/smoke along the way.
It's vaguely possible this is due to some sort of bug. (Or possibly a child who likes to squirt stuff onto the wall?)
That's interesting - condensation picking up dirt. This lady is not a smoker.
It appears to definitely be on the surface of the paint - it will clean off clean, then, she says re-appear. It may be different now that we have removed the wood stove. She says a couple of the drips have grown in the last few days however (no wood fire for a long time). The hot attic situation and uninsulated pull down may make for condensation (especially with the bathroom right there). You may be on to something.
Smoke from the wood stove. You can claim that they don't smoke, but they do.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Same deal. In the master bath where the previous owner was a heavy smoker.
I attribute this to condensation with smoke deposit.
Cigarette smoke was my first guess as well - at least that's what it was in the house we had once. Fortunately we realized it before painting. Washed every wall at least 3 times; no problems. With a coat of paint over it I wouldn't know where to start - BIN & repaint maybe?
indian burial ground.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Has this been painted recently? It looks like surfactant(sp?) leaching. This most of the time occurs in baths because of moisture. Look it up on the net I've had it happen a few times.
Surfactant LeachingCauses All latex paints contain detergent-like materials called surfactants that are necessary for the stability of the paint formulation. In cases where surfactant is leaching from the dried film, this material will dissipate in small amounts. Surfactants tend to come out of the film slowly, and are easily removed by normal weathering. Under certain curing conditions, such as low temperatures, condensing moisture, etc., this leaching process occurs rapidly and results in a surfactant build-up on the surface. Leached surfactant can appear as a thick brown syrup-like deposit or rundown. On occasion, it may assume a white crystalline form. Surfactant leaching is not limited to exterior coatings. It may appear in bathrooms or other areas where moisture condenses on walls. In these instances, a clear amber glossy rundown will be visible.
Wow,
That sure seems to describe it - do you know anything more about it? Can we just treat the walls then seal with Kilz and solve it?
I suppose it could appear to be airborne but actually leaching through the paint. I don't know how recently it has been painted - are you saying that if it has this is likely the problem or the opposite?
Is this because the paint wasn't mixed good or what? I'm totally ignorant of this.
Fonzie,
I can not answer your paint question..but this sure looks like a symptom of improper ventilation. Too much interior moisture. This was not even the bathroom! Just think of the other problems that may be lurking.
I've have seen it happen most often in newer repaints , but not always the case. Sometimes it will stop in time just wash it off when it shows up. High moisture is what causes it to leach out, not improper mixing. I had it happen in a bath in my house (2 daughters lots of showers right after painting) it did stop after a while. Wash seal and repaint?, should work if moisture is kept in check during cure time.
According to Fonzie's post,
All latex paints contain detergent-like materials called surfactants
With your experience, does surfactant leaching happen in oil based paint as well?
TomC,Another guy had mentioned this term - I had never heard of it so I googled it and got that information off Benjamin Moore's website.Sorry, I don't know anything about it. I just copied and posted it.
I dont claim to be an expert ...... but I have only seen it happen on interiors with latex paints. Just thought that maybe the problem.
Fonz,
My own house ( of six years ),,,, I get those on the ceiling in the unheated garage. Been up there looking around etc etc. I can't figue it out. I wipe them off, they come back. They actually drip off the ceiling on to the floor. Yet when I investigate, the building assembely is bone dry.
Harry
I have seen those drops maky times ... though they are usually on ceilings.
Cause #1 is condensation, which seems to leach pigments out of the paint and concentrate them at the surface. Remove the spots, and a slightly whiter spot remains.
Cause #2 ... and I've even seen these spots on glass !! ... is tobacco smoke. Again, condensation seems to catch the tars as they hover nearby, and make the spots.
Your spots look to be placed just right for tobacco smoke to have made them. Time to clean, prime, paint.
I'd also look for the reason for the condensation. Moisture forming drops on the wall is generally not a good thing.
I've got them in my house. It was new construction in 2001. I never smoked, don't burn wood nor candles. It happens in the bathroom and looks just like the photograph.
Thanks to the person who posted the surfactant leaching description, that sounds like what it is at my house.
It's easy to wash off (of course, because it's a surfactant) and decreases over time.
I doubt repainting would help, because the new paint would leach, too.
<<loose fitting and untrimmed pull down stairway in hall>>
One of the hallway doors goes to bath that doesn't get ventilated, is my guess. The warm air from the bath meets the cool air drifting down from the unsealed attic stairs and condenses in the hallway, taking the wood smoke residue with it.
Seal the attic stairs and ventilate the bathroom. You say the woodstove chimney was removed. What now is used to heat the house?
It's heated by hot water heat fired by natural gas with the flu going up through first the closet then the roof about 4 feet away from these spots.
Natural gas wouldn't give you enough paritcle to stain like that, but it could be the temp/mooisture differential is working to bring out old wood smoke stain in the hallway as it wouldn't in the rest of the house. In my old house, before i sealed around the attic stairs, the cold poured down and carried attic dirt with it. The walls around the stair area were noticeably darker. If someone just painted over that without washing the wall first...well, there's another sourse of grime for your customer in that specific location.It could also be old wallpaper glue, either if the wallpaper was painted over, or old glue wasn't properly cleaned off before painting.
I ran into a problem like this once , except the stains got worse and worse and would not wipe off.
After a little investigating, we found a hole where bees were entering the house.
H.O. called a bee keeper and removed the bees and a giant honeycomb from the wall cavity. The honey was leeching through the sheetrock. Big mess, and I would think that if ya did'nt get it ALL, there would be a constant worry of ants.
I did not go back this job after the bee man left, so I really don't know the final outcome.
I'm just shareing this with ya, I do not think this is what your problem is.
dug,- not a bee man
dug,
Ouch, you just reminded me of a time long ago when I met up with a bunch of yellow jackets way back in an attic. I went armed with the spray next time, only I didn't know you have to break the seal - I about broke more than the seal.
Thanks and I hope you're wrong though you sound pretty confident.
You have bees in the walls and they are making honey. Google it. I had to move out of a townhouse and watch them gut the entire place because it got so bad after years of them not realizing what it was or doing anything about it.