Hi, I’m a homeowner planning a deck project and I know I’m going to need a nailer to save my arm and speed things up. Problem is, framing nailers seem to be so specialized – as far as I can tell you can’t use the same nailer for joist hangars and for decking, for instance.
I like the looks of the Makita AG125 pneumatic nail driver as an alternative, but it looks as though it has a minimum nail length of 3″, and I need 1.5″ for the hangars.
So, a couple of questions: 1) is the AG125 actually an alternative for me? Can it drive 1.5″ nails? 2) is there a nailer that will do all the things I need to do on this project – hangars, decking, and framing? 3) should I just forget about it and rent?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Replies
Have you considered using deck screws? A good screwgun will cost you about $100. It's slower than nailing but you'll have a better job.
Yes, I've considered, but thought that the time & backstrain involved weighed in favor of nailing... could be convinced otherwise. It's the hangers that I'm worried about, tho.
You can install the hangers with screws or you can use a hammer and nails...or both. Unless your proposed deck is very large, the difference in time between a nail gun and screws would only be an hour or so. The screwgun has a magnetic tip, to hold the screw in place. So feeding screws onto the bit becomes easier as you work at it.
Another advantage is that a screwgun is often more useful for a homeowner/DIYer than a specialized nail gun might be. I'm an old school carpenter and although I own three kinds of nailguns, I don't go to all the trouble of hauling one out and hooking everything up unless I'm going to be doing a lot of nailing. And when I want make a really secure connection with dimensional lumber, I'll use the screwgun. Otherwise it's a hammer and a pouch full of nails.
You wrote: "You can install the hangers with screws". Most screws are not rated for this.They do not have the shear strength. This could be very dangerous.
Simpson sells screws for their hangers
http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/catalogs/C-2007/C-2007-p020.pdf
Only for interior uses:
"WARNING: Industry studies show that hardened fasteners can
experience performance problems in wet or corrosive environments.
Accordingly, use this product in dry, interior, and noncorrosive
environments only. (Titen and SD8 only) sD8x1.25 "
what about the SDS screws on that page? did you see them or just looking for a reject?
How were you able to copy/paste from an Adobe Reader pdf?
ThanksThe owner of the axe, as he released his hold on it, said that it was the apple of his eye; but I returned it sharper than I received it. It was a pleasant hillside where I worked, covered with pine woods, through which I looked out on the pond, and a small open field in the woods where pines and hickories were springing up. -Thoreau's Walden
I use an Apple Mac. Use the Force Luke. Lol
Rez, when you open the .pdf in IE you get a tool bar that has the option to select text right next to the Hand Tool. use it to swipe/highlight text and copy/paste.
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well cool, thanks.
Is there a way to copy the images also?
The owner of the axe, as he released his hold on it, said that it was the apple of his eye; but I returned it sharper than I received it. It was a pleasant hillside where I worked, covered with pine woods, through which I looked out on the pond, and a small open field in the woods where pines and hickories were springing up. -Thoreau's Walden
Right next to the select tool is the snap shot tool that will copy images to your clip board.
You gotta play with the buttons & gadgets more often.
I get it to the clip board then what do I do with it?The owner of the axe, as he released his hold on it, said that it was the apple of his eye; but I returned it sharper than I received it. It was a pleasant hillside where I worked, covered with pine woods, through which I looked out on the pond, and a small open field in the woods where pines and hickories were springing up. -Thoreau's Walden
Paste it somewhere? Open a Word or an e-mail or a photo software or whatever method you prefer on your computer and then paste away. It will copy a portion of the pdf that's visible on your screen. Probably ought go to a photo editor and then select exactly what you want.
Tried pasting to a BT post but it wouldn't take.
I'll play around with it more.
Thanks for the heads up.The owner of the axe, as he released his hold on it, said that it was the apple of his eye; but I returned it sharper than I received it. It was a pleasant hillside where I worked, covered with pine woods, through which I looked out on the pond, and a small open field in the woods where pines and hickories were springing up. -Thoreau's Walden
Paste it to irfanview as a new image.Save it as anything you want.
Fight fire with water.
6. DO NOT USE SD8x1.25" wood screws with structural connectors
unless specifically stated in this catalog.
al
Oh Boy! Another screw controversy. And I started it. ;-)
Dhat's wight, Mr. White. It could be vewy danguwus to use duh wong scwews. It was vewy nice of you to bwing dhat to our attention. Twice, even.
Edited 5/21/2007 4:07 pm ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
LOL!
I am in the process of building a deck, and I used a Bostitch palm nailer for the joist hangers. I picked it up on sale at Amazon.com for $35. I know that Bostitch makes a framing nailer that is capable of shooting joist hanger nails, but a palm nailer is a lot cheaper and almost as fast. Plus, the palm nailer will fit in spaces that you'll never get a framing nailer (or a hammer). You certainly wouldn't want to frame a house with a palm nailer; but if all you're worried about is joist hangers, a palm nailer is the perfect tool.
You haven't said what you're making the deck out of, but if it's ACQ lumber I'd use screws approved for this application.
I'm curious about why you want 1.5" fasteners. That seems pretty short for deck building, unless you're talking about joist hanger nails, which you'll have a hard time driving with a regular nailer. Again, consider screws or maybe a palm nailer for this.
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
Thanks Scott and all for your comments - much food for thought. The 1.5" nails would be for joist hangers fer sure.
Don't forget that you'll need a positive placement gun (one that has a guide or exposed nail points) if you're going to nail hangers with it.
Regarding the use of screws for deck construction, you'll want to be sure to use SS screws designed for the job. Many screws are not rated for structural use (do a search here for "Piffin screws" and be prepared for a few day's reading) and if you are going into ACQ, most screws will corrode very quickly. Someone posted here recently that the tan deck screws that HD sells rusted in something like a month when used in ACQ.
It seems like anything but SS with ACQ is kind of like "cross yer fingers & hope for the best" at this point until there is more experience with it.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Yeah, it's ACQ all the way, and I've read about the corrosion issue. SS screws starting to sound expensive; haven't I read that galvanized works ok too?
Other than SS, your choices are *hot dipped* galvanized (NOT plated) or powder coated (as in those provided with the Deckmate system). I saw a photo in a book recently comparing steel, plated, HD galv and SS that had been in ACQ for 1 year. You could hardly tell the difference between any of them except the SS, which was still good. The rest looked like relics dug up from the bottom of a well.
SS is expensive, but may be the only acceptable alternative, in the long run. I think it's pretty appalling that they can sell ACQ as the standard deck material when there is no real standard for fastening the stuff or testing and approval for fasteners. You always hear about deaths and injuries from ledger failures -- my fear is that decks will start to crumble in a few years due to the fasteners vanishing.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
You guys are starting to put me off of my nail gun idea - I may move to the palm nailer, which sounds like a good alternative.BY THE WAY - Does the fastener anxiety extend to the bolts I'll use to anchor the ledgers to the rim joists? How are HD bolts holding up out there?
"BY THE WAY - Does the fastener anxiety extend to the bolts I'll use to anchor the ledgers to the rim joists?"
Sure does. Use hot dipped there too, and use carriage bolts (NOT lag bolts/screws) that go clear throught the rim, with washers on the inside. Don't remember off hand, but I believe the code specifies size and spacing of the bolts. Check with your local BI -- they sometimes have their own ideas on this.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Bostick (sp?) has a air nailer with an interchangeable tip that shoots regular framing nails (2"-3.5") and joist hanger nails. Do a search at Amazon. That is where I bought mine. Before you spend the $$$ though, check the price and availability of the fasteners you would like to use.
Really though, having a gun to shoot joist hanger nails is more of a luxury than a necessity. I mean with 1 deck how many joist hanger nails are you gonna need - maybe a hundred or two at the most?
Two options come to mind if I had only one tool to frame a deck.
#1: The kwik drive screw gun. It has an extension that you can stand up and screw off decking. That extension can be taken off and you can run in all the screws you want in a normal way.
#2: Bostitch N88 or some number like that, Matt mentioned it and it is a good gun. I bought a used one a little while ago and really like being able to use it for more than one operatiion.
I've got this gun and it shoots both 1 1/2" hanger nails and framing nails to 3 1/2". It uses an interchangable tip for each type and works fine. It uses plastic collated full head stick nails.
http://www.amazon.com
Edited 5/22/2007 3:55 pm ET by paulbny
Nailer for DIY deck project
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I'd just like to thank everybody who weighed in on this discussion - the tips were helpful. Just to let y'all know what I decided: I've ordered a Bostitch nailer (the N88RH-2MCN that does framing and hangers), and I'm making sure that all my connectors are HD. I'll probably end up nailing the decking.Thanks again!-Richard S.
To beat a dead horse--
If I'm "face-nailing" a deck, I use screws (SS). If you are set on using the nail gun, buy HDG or double dipped, if available. Ring-shanks are also may reduce nail pops.Also, Simpson sells hangers with a Zmax label. They have more protection against corrosion than their standard types. My problem with those "ACQ" acceptable powder/ceramic coated screws is that once you drive them, the coating comes right off, exposing the steel.
I did a deck last year.
My palm nailer was cheap and invaluable for doing joist hanger nails, where you can't swing a hammer.
For screws, I used my makita impact driver, which is a great tool to have even if you aren't screwing a deck down with it. I used composite screws on the Trex decking, and the impact driver made it easy.