Nailer – P&C FR 350A or Bostitch F21PL
JohnWalker
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
Hi
I am looking for a framing nail gun but don’t anything about them. I see the Porter and Cable FR 350A on sale. Does anyone recommend this framing nail gun? Should I spring for the Bostitch (+$50)?
Thanks
John
Replies
The Porter Cable sucks. Huge, heavy, jams all the time, just no good. Never used bostich, I use a dewalt its light and compact, no problems, 18 months of regular use not everyday but steady use.
Its a clipped head nailer I buy paslode round drive nails that have a full head for clipped nailers whenever possible, cost a little more but nice to have.
I've used another carpenter's PC gun and liked it, I was using it nailing into beams in a house in Charlestown section of Boston that was at least 250 years old and it did a great job the size can be a nuisance sometimes though. The Senco guns are good as are the Paslode(air driven and cordless). We just got a new Paslode this week and so fair it seems really good, made in the USA, nice metal casing, and only $250 if I recall.
A friend of mine and I each bought a PC framing nailer. Both lasted about two hours on the job before leaking. We returned them an never looked back. Have owned Hitachi's for years and have never been disappointed. They have worked every time.
>>Have owned Hitachi's for years and have never been disappointed.<<
Me neither, but they are a few $ up from the Bostich.
But, I have never built a hardwood house like frenchy.
In fact, I don't think I have ever used a framing nailer on hardwood. Lotta finish nailers and floor cleat nailers........
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Edited 7/2/2009 2:38 pm ET by JTC1
JTC1
While few build homes out of hardwood, getting a nail flush in a Glue lam usually calls for pulling the hammer. Lots of glue lams in homes these days.
>>Lots of glue lams in homes these days.<<
Not enough to make me trade guns.
Even if my Hitachi framing gun will not set nails flush in a gluelam, I have several other options to finish that tiny percentage of nails in a house or addition.
Bostich palm nailer, Stilletto, Douglas, Estwing......
Jim Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
senco MK IV....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Naw, get a Halstead.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
nothing like those old cannons...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I like Hitachi nail guns I own several, However they like all others are rated at 880 pounds of impact compared to the Bostich's 1000 pounds.. That's why for that application I like Bostich..
Nowdays you can pull your hammer out to flush nails and it won't make any real differance.. during the peak building years though, it's those little things that made the differance of another 1/2hours worth of work achieved in one day. At the end of the year that would put thousands if not 10 thousand dollars more in your pocket.
I learned that little bit of wisdom from one of my customers.. He and his 2 sons could frame a 2000 sq.ft. 2 story house in 4 days including hang doors and put in windows. Because of that speed they were given all the prime properties to build restricted to 4 differant house plans. Building inspectors used to do drive by inspections on his homes because they were so comfortable with his work. (another words no short cuts taken)
His framing nailer was a Bostich and still he had many Hatachi trim and siding nailers/staplers.
That's a good point if you run a production framing business. Can that brute be dialed back far enough to not overdrive sheathing nails?
Do you think that JohnWalker (OP) is starting a production framing business and is looking to buy his very first framing gun?
Do you think he is planning to build an all hardwood house?
I don't believe either one is true, and that he will do just fine with any reliable gun, even one that only delivers 880 lb. force.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I thought that was pretty much whatt I said., As for dialing it back, it has a simple tooless takes 5 seconds adjustment on the depth setting which allowed me to exactly flush the nail in any material. Or leave it about 3/8ths proud for quick removal..
Thanks to all who replied.
In the end I bought the Bostitch thinking it was only a little more money and I will be on a tight schedule and don't want to deal with the possibility of my only framing nailer packing it in. (I will try to have a friends loaner on standby).
I picked it up on a road trip through Oregon so I saved about $50CAN in taxes (retails for around $350CAN). I realize I could have made similar savings on any other brand but it helped my decision. For what its worth there are used ones on the local craigslist for almost as much!
Now back to finding a lot....
John
I have the Bostich F21PL. Don't use it much, so I can't comment on how it holds up, but it hasn't given me any issues. The positive placement nose is a plus.
Is that the Bostitch that take 22 degree ammo? Hard to find around here.
It takes 21-degree plastic collated. One of the decision factors for me was the availability of stainless ring shank full head nails from my supplier.
Yeah, I almost bought that one. A great deal
going on over at amazon. Scoped out the local shops and no one had the 21
degree nails, let alone the fastener nails for it. How does it fit in between the rafters? Kind of
big for a fastener nailer. I ended up getting the Bostitch F28WW. Simple
powerful and no plastic in the puss.
Edited 7/3/2009 7:20 am ET by Henley
I bought it for fencing, so I don't have experience using it between rafters. That said, I just measured it, and it's 14-1/2" from nose to exhaust, without the nose pressed down.
The F28WW is clipped head, not full-head. Maybe the difference is that nobody shoots clipped head around here (I'm in Florida), so everybody stocks the right ammo, and where you are everybody shoots clipped head.
The Porter cable is more properly called a Nail starter not a nail gun because all too often you need to pull your hammer to flush the nail. That or it jams or the whole gun blows gaskets and trigger assembly's
I selected the Bostich N88ww for two reasons over others (including the well respected Hatachi)
The reason for my selection is impact force.. virtaully all framing nailers hit with 880 pounds of force.. the bostich hits with 1000 pounds of force which is a significant differance when nailing glue lams or hardwood (my whole house is hardwood)..
The second reason is Bostich is real good about getting nails to every little hardware store and all of the big box stores have them..
Nobody spoke about reliablity but in spite of nailing in temps down to 40 below mine has worked flawlessly for 9 years now.. (and it's taken more than it's share of test drops to verify that gravity still works.. It's a little scratched up but it still works perfectly..
Porter cable is more properly called a Nail starter not a nail gun because all too often you need to pull your hammer to flush the nail. That or it jams or the whole gun blows gaskets and trigger assembly's >>>>>>>>>>>>
Frenchy, every time someone asks about the PC guns you say the same thing.
I worked as a framing carpenter for years. Have used PC, and Hitachi. The hitachi is like the Cadilac of guns. It lasts forever and doesn't have problems.
I have PC guns at the house for working and they are fine. They are not "nail starters" as you suggest.
I've heard the same thing too often from contractors to ignore it.. in spite of your claim.. I've used a few PC's myself and found that to be true. Especially on the framing nailer.
The standard repsonse from PC owners is to crank up the compressor to put out higher pressure. First that's hard on both the compressor and the guns and second I don't have to do that with any other nailer to get them to work properly.
In fact I have a PC roofing nailer and I can tell you the hammer comes out at least every other shingle..In fact it's been my practice to run a row of shingles and then go back and flush them rather than stop and pull out the hammer and put it back.
The only reason I have a Porter Cable is my nephew borrowed my Bostich and had it stolen on him. He repalced it with the cheaper Porter Cable.
Not everything Porter Cable makes is lousy but their guns sure are. I have two Porter Cable routers and both are really good.. Plus most of the nails I use for my Hitachi and pin nailer are from Porter Cable.
It sounds like you are not running the correct air preasure if you have to pull your hammer. I have a pc roffer that sinks them with no problem.
I have found that a lot of people don't run the correct compressor for the gun. SCFM is the important number in running the guns.
It doesn't hurt a compressor to rais or lower air preasure to the gun in use, in fact it is necessary!
Wrong!
Once you're at maxium pressure you dramatically increase bearing loads on the compressor beyond what the thing was designed for.. By running at maximum rated pressure I've been able to keep a compressor trouble free for 25+ years.
And If every other nail gun works perfectly except Portor Cable then it's the gun and not the compressor!
I am glad you wrote to me today.
I just shingled my new storage shed. I use a PC nail gun for the shingles. Everyone nailed correctly with no starters as you call them.
The other thing I will tell you is that I didn't tell you to max out the compressor. I merely told you to increase the pressure. The other thing you should do is to use the correct size hose.
You were called out on your exaggerations the last time this came up. I wish you would stop giving incorrect advise! PC makes a fine nail gun. Whether it is a framer, roofer or finish gun. You have an unbelievably closed mind about their guns. Somehow I believe that you are doing something incorrectly to have these problems. I have used them without any and I repeat any abnormal problems.
My opinion was formed by the thousands of contractors I called on before I bought any nail gun.. those with Porter cable Nail guns were all in agreement about the issue.
LIke I said it's not the company it's the product.. they make fine routers..
My opinion was formed by the thousands of contractors I called on before I bought any nail gun.. those with Porter cable Nail guns were all in agreement about the issue.
LIke I said it's not the company it's the product.. they make fine routers..>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Bull, they make fine nailers also. You may have a bad taste in your mouth for them, but their nailers are fine. There must be a problem with the compressors in your neck of the woods as they work fine with upstate NY air! Of course we are smart enough to check our compressors and hoses to make sure they are recieving enough air. Most times afer useing nails to drive literally hundreds of thousands of nails, it is an air supply problem which you are describing.
Turn the compressors up a notch or increase the size of your hoses!!!
I own a PC finish nailer, 18 ga brad nailer and a 1/4" crown stapler all have been trouble free.
I have used 3 different PC framers extensively in different conditions and all have been without question JUNK. The compressor functions or hoses or whatever Osment make them any more compact. They are bulky and heavy.
They get jammed constantly I don't care what anyone does it does'nt matter and its not operator error its a fact of the design of the gun. Three different owners and three regretful people.
Three different guns made within the last 10 years and the same design and the same results = JUNK
I don't want to clear jams every two or three nails thats what a PC framer does.
Yes the only ones I've heard complaints about have been their framing nailers and the roofing nailers.. I see trim nailers on rare occasions but I never heard any complaints about them.. I picked the trim and pin nailers I did (Hatachi& Bostich) based on a strong recomendation from nearly every trim carpenter I talked to.
But I use Portor cable nails for them..
My experience has been the same with the PC guns I have owned. The framer died in about two hours of use while my Hitachi framing nailer is still going nine years later. The PC brad nailers, staplers, and finish nail guns are still going nine years later too. The farming nailer died after two hours of use. A friend of mine bought one at the same time and his died within about 30 minutes of the same times as mine did.
experience has been the same with the PC guns I have owned. The framer died in about two hours of use while my Hitachi framing nailer is still going nine years later>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
I have not had this experience with them, but at least it is not a "nail starter" that frenchy promises!!!
framers extensively in different conditions and all have been without question JUNK>>>>>>>>>>>..
Like I have told frenchy, if it is just starting the nails, there is an air problem.
Having said that, I don't like the bulkyness of them nor are they a favorite of mine. The problem he keeps ascribing to them is an air supply problem and liely not a problem with the guns!!>G<
Like I said why do my other framing nailers work so well if it's an air supply? remember the Bostich hits with 1000# of force coomapred to every other faming nailer which hits with 880 pounds of force.. If any gun would have an air supply problem it would be that big, powerful, Bostich.
Frammer 52 You are wrong! Others have said as much in the posts above.
Why don't you face facts?
Like I said why do my other framing nailers work so well if it's an air supply? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Frenchy, can you admit that the PC is different than other guns? As such it can have different air supply requirements than others.
The others are saying that they had problem with the guns. You are the one that went a step further and called them nail starters. I suggested that you have no experience with PC framers and as such, you should not even answer this post.
I and others have experience, and I have admitted it is not the best choice, you are the one that included all PC nailors in you original statement that they are bad.
Please Frenchy, you have no experience with PC framers, all you are reporting is at best 2nd hand information!
Not so! I've used them on occasion and found that all too often they had me pulling my hammer that to me is a nail starter. When my nephew came over with his we used to kid him about his nail gun. I could flush every 3 1/2 inch 16p nail and he never could.. Now to be fair it was into hardwood which is more demanding than soft wood. However when I used my friends Porter Cable into softwood I still had to pull the hammer out all too often.. (and that was with 12p nails).. It made working on his fence really hard.
One other thing, I have taqked PC guns that others have reported problems with, and with minor adjustments, they work well.
I have a friend that sells them in his small equiptment shop, and he has asked me to use some that have been returned. Most are returned by contractors that won't take the time to figure why they don't work for them. It can be as simple as a person not cranking up their compressor to a level necessary for a framing gun. Others have starved the nailor with undersized hoses, still others don't read and understand the required SCFM's of framers verses other guns.. This applies to people that figure that all framers requirte the same quanity of air, which is not true.
I am saying to you, that if you have found them to be nail starters, you need to spend the time to lok further as to why!!
don't want to clear jams every two or three nails thats what a PC framer does>>>>>>>>>>>
This is a problem with their guns, they appear to be more fickle with the nails used than most other framers. Shoot I have a craftsman that I can put any strip nail at any angle, full head or clipped into and it works!!
I would not recomend it for a jobsite because of the bulkyness of it!!
Paslode has just released their redesigned pneumatic framing nailer, it's called the PowerFramer. Weighing in at a lb less than the PowerMaster, and reportedly very powerful and durable - this is the nailer I'm looking at.
Regards, Carl
Can't beat this with a stick...
http://heavydutytools.net/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=304
If I didn't already own a pair of Hitachi framers I'd order this one up. The Makita is a really nice gun, I have their siding nailer and love it.
I just unloaded an older Porter Cable framer after picking up a Hitachi coil framer for a song at my repair shop. Wasn't ever really impressed with it, but it did do the job. I've used both the new style Bostitch framers and the older style which were really popular guns. The older style was nice, plenty of power, good balance, etc. But they sure were heavy. The newer style guns I wasn't too impressed with, just felt chintzy and felt like it would double fire a lot if not for the sequential trigger - which I hated.
Check out that Makita though, definitely a killer deal.
Nick
Edited 7/2/2009 2:46 pm ET by Squash
I have a Bostich N88RH-MCN2 which the 21 replaced. I like it alot, it has the power to sink nails into microlams while the other guys on the job are finishing thrm by hand.
I don't do enough hanger work to justify owning dedicated hanger nail gun, the positive placement tip works great when I need it.
The only drawback to this gun is the plastic collated nails which do spit out chunks of plastic. Some guys really hate this but I don't find it a problem.
I have two of the Bostich F21PL's and I love them. Never any problems so far. I had an N88RH which was stolen and I loved it too. The thing I really like about these guns is the positive placement tip. I don't install enough metal connectors to need a dedicated gun but too many to fool with hand nailing, so they're perfect for me. They have plenty of power and they are reliable as far as my experience goes. As someone mentioned the plastic shrapnel can be a bit of a pain but I don't find it too annoying. Interestingly I saw an ad recently, can't remember where, for full round 21 degree nails collated with paper to eliminate the shrapnel problem. I can't even remember who was making them, but I thought it was interesting. If they become widely available I may switch to them.