Replies

1. 
   r_ignacki | Aug 22, 2002 02:05am | #1

   we don't get hurricanes, tornadoes, or shakers.

   the truss get's three 12's, one up thru the top plate into the bottom of the truss as a placement nail, then one toe each side. Then a rafter tie.

   no turn left unstoned  

2. 
   BossHog | Aug 22, 2002 02:20pm | #2

   Most trusses (That I've seen) just get a couple of toenails, and nothing else. You're basically just trying to hold the things in place, so it doesn't matter too much.

   Definitely use the hold-downs that Panama Red mentioned.

   Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

3. 
   exlrrp | Aug 22, 2002 04:35pm | #3

   The engineering drawing from the truss company should show where the nailing points are and may or may not have the nail specs. A phone call to the truss designer should solve this, these are figured into the calcs--THEY should know the code here, better than the inspector--if they get shirty with you about this, you may startegically point out there are other truss companies to deal with--I can't imagine anyone being not helpful about this when I'm buying their trusses, they should light your cigars.

   This should also be on the approved plans, usually the truss drawing is attached to it. The inspector will only inspect whats on the plans, theyre usually not helpful on recommendations, in many cases you'll know more than they will ( don't let them know this!!)

   Here's how its usually done:

   Toenail down 2 16s or 3 8s on the ends on the exterior walls, installing frieze blocks, 2 16s toenailing block to plate. Fast and easy with a nailgun

   do NOT--I mean NOTNOTNOT NOT just stck yr foot on the lower chord and toenail it to interior walls--this is important and will require you to do it over.

   Trusses are designed so the bottom chord has camber arching up--is is part of the design toenailing it down in the middle destroys this.

   There are special nails and brackets for this, allowingvertical but not horizontal motion--without this sheet rock will twist and crack, pop nails you'll be coming back forever over this

   FHB had a whole article on this, do a search for this

   
   

   ---

   Edited 8/22/2002 9:38:14 AM ET by EXLRRP
   

   ---

   Edited 8/22/2002 9:44:39 AM ET by EXLRRP

   
   

   ---

   Edited 8/22/2002 9:47:06 AM ET by EXLRRP

1. 
   BossHog | Aug 22, 2002 05:10pm | #4

   It's not the responsibility of the truss company to specify how the trusses are nailed down. There aren't and "calcs" for that. Don't know where you got that idea.

   Also - Not all trusses are cambered. Some companies do it, others don't. But you're correct about it beaing a bad idea to nail truss chords down to interior partitions.

   There is only one way to find out if a man is honest ask him. If he says "yes," you know he is crooked.

1. 
   exlrrp | Aug 22, 2002 05:38pm | #5

   I got that imprression from looking at a lot of engineering drawings and stacking a lot of trusses

   Have YOU seen truss engineering drawings where the points of attachment iis not specified? How was the span figured?

   Don't you think that atachment is a crucial part of design? this is part of what a planchecker wants to see--how is the roof attached to a wall--this is where hold downs are specified--the designing engineer provides these specs, the truss designer designs to this spec It certainly has to be on the submitted plans somewhere, its a basic part of the design engineering.

   .

   The truss designer SHOULD know this, as should the engineer.

   ICBO specs is 3 #8s rafter to plate

   Edited 8/22/2002 10:41:19 AM ET by EXLRRP

   Edited 8/22/2002 10:51:42 AM ET by EXLRRP

1. 
   BossHog | Aug 22, 2002 05:49pm | #6

   Maybe we're saying the thing different ways.

   The truss designs, or "engineering drawings" show where bearing points are. They do not typically specify how they are to be anchored. The only exception to that would be if the designer or engineer specify some sort of hold-down due to wind uplift. But most trusses aren't designed for wind loading. (Although this varies a lot from region to region) And the truss designer isn't *required* to specify it.

   I've never seen toe nailing specified for wind uplift cases.

   The attachment of the truss to the bearings has nothing to do with the design of the truss. (Except in rare cases rarely seen in residential construction)

   I'm curious what you do for a living, and where you get your information.......

   If at first you don't succeed, aim lower.

1. 
   exlrrp | Aug 22, 2002 06:01pm | #7

   actually I think were in agreement also--attachment is specified by the design engineer, the truss co designs to that spec--the points are shown on the drawing, Ive seen em marked on the trusses. All on the same page?

   I am a remodeling contractor in CA but I also do home inspections. I went through a building inspectors course in 1994, am ICBO certified in Building, Plumbing, Electrical(NEC), mechanical, concrete, steel, masonry. I do occasional special inspections in these but usually do prepurchase home inspection--this is my semiretirement scheme.

   I started out as a union carpenter in the mid 70s building tracts in the SF bay Area--we have our own ways of doing stuff here. Ive been doig carpentry, plumbing electrical, you name it since 1981 when I got my general contractors license

   Ive built several houses, for myself and other people. over the years, certainly made a lot of mistakes but learned a lot.

   How about you?

   James

2. 
   BossHog | Aug 22, 2002 06:32pm | #9

   Didn't know you were a left-coaster - That would explain a lot. It may be state or local code in California that the truss designer call out tie-downs.

   But here in the midwest it isn't done. The truss designer is required to specify truss to truss connections only, per ANSI/WTCA 1-1995. So engineered drawings around here generally just show a bearing point and a reaction. Most trusses are installed with a couple of toenails and nothing else. Many areas around here have no building codes.

   I've heard that in California, trusses have to be designed for quake and lunge factors, etc. That oughta be fun. Do they do wind loading also?

   I've been in the truss business more or less for 18 years. I also do some minor carpentry stuff on the side, and consider myself an expert on losing money building spec houses. (Don't ask)

   Experts say 86% of people who watch pro wrestling on TV think it's real. This explains why Wile E. Coyote gets so many 'Get Well' cards.

3. 
   exlrrp | Aug 22, 2002 06:48pm | #10

   "I've heard that in California, trusses have to be designed for quake and lunge factors, etc. That oughta be fun. Do they do wind loading also? "

   Oh absolutely, the holddown/attachment situation is has extupled here, some spec foundation bolts at 1'OC, every truus attached, with extra, etc

   "I've been in the truss business more or less for 18 years. I also do some minor carpentry stuff on the side, and consider myself an expert on losing money building spec houses. (Don't ask)"

   Youre more up on state of the art than I am--havent personally dealt with trusses for several years--Ive lost money on real estate also (don't ask also) (stocks also!!!)

   Heheh, the more I think about it the more right you are--the design engineer would spec the attachment, the truss designer would just assume it was attached--to tell the truth, I can't follow all the engineering #s-I'd just call the engineer or architect and ask--is there none on this particuler question? Who specced the trusses in the first place?

   When in doubt, try to go with Standard Wood Frame Construction as specified in the code--for all you noncode people I REALLY encourage getting these CodeCheck Flip book things, theyre great, with pictures even

   Well, UBC says rafter to plate atachment is 3 #8s minimum so it wouldn't be any less than that

   Got to go to work

   later

   James

4. 
   exlrrp | Aug 22, 2002 06:09pm | #8

   "

   "

   I've never seen toe nailing specified for wind uplift cases. "

   You don't see this amymore because here in CA everybody went to heavy quake proof engineering, its 50 times what it used to be--now its hold downs, tico clips, hurricane ties etc

   But from my own experience, half the roofs in CA are nailed just as I describe it but maybe not so well.

   This was standard installation all the time I was stacking trusses (late 70s)