OK, I need someone to straighten me out on my terminology.
I thought a lally column was a steel support column that sometimes came with an adjustable screw on one end. Sometimes filled with concrete. They can be achored to the concrete and screwed into the beam to make a solid connection between the two. Basically a steel tube with a screw on one end.
A jack post is similar, however tends to be smaller, lighter, and even though you can anchor the bottom plate into the concrete and screw the top plate into the beam, it will still fall over if you take the weight off of it. Basically two steel tubes with a pin connecting them.
I was at the lumberyard at lunch and was pleasantly surprised to see short lally columns (down to 1’10”-2’2″), but the dude called them jack posts. So now I’m confused (I’m easily confused).
jt8
“Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success.” –Albert Schweitzer
Replies
No help here but maybe I can add to the confusion.
I thought a Lally was a cement filled fixed length post.
I thought a Lally was a cement filled fixed length post.
Yeah, that is what I thought was the main type of lally. A concrete filled tube with a plate on either end. But then that there were some with adjustable screws on one end (no concrete?).
I usually don't worry about the terminology, just put 'em in and hope they work, but if my terminology isn't correct, it will be harder to order them at the yard.
jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
The label on my Jack Post box...says they are "adjustable floor jacks"....either way, they are as you said, just a temporary post that consist of 2 steel tubes and they are pinned in place and an adjustable screw plate sits on top ., I too usually refer to these as being Jack Posts. If the salesperson is unsure as to what I mean, I then usually say I need temporary steel support posts.
To me, a Lally Column has always meant just one thing....a steel post filled with concrete and cut to a specified length with end plates welded on...these plates are not adjustable, and if the post is sized wrong, then steel shims come into play.
I've always been under the impression that a steel post that is hollow is simply a support post..whether the end plates are adjustable or not. Although I've heard others refer to these as a "lally column" I personally never considered it to actually be one. Most times, I've witnessed these steel support posts being used in a permanent situation, but not always. To me, it depends on the load you are trying to support, but I usually find nothing wrong using these both for tempory shoring or for permanent deployment...depending on the circumstances.
I've also witnessed many a Jack Post being used as a permanent support beefing up some part of a basement....may not be right, but DIYers love em.
One last thing....who's to say the counterperson at your lumber store was using proper lingo? Unless they've been manning their station at the store for many years, most of these guys don't know squat.
Davo
i googled it and found this at the Word Detective site:
<<<<<
The Gravity Follies.
Dear Word Detective: I work in the construction trade, and we (that's the colloquial "we") use a structural member called a "lally column." You've seen them in basements: a steel column with threaded ends that is used to support long-span beams. I've no wish to denigrate the tradesmen with whom I work, but not a one of them has a clue as to why these are called "lally columns" (nor, I suspect, even tepid interest in the topic as a whole). I've searched numerous places for an origin, but to no avail, and at last I turn to you, the one person who might be able to ferret out the truth. Just what, or who, is "lally"? -- Ted.
View ImageSo that's what that thing is called. Here at Word Detective World Headquarters we have one of those lurking in the cellar. This house was built in the 1860s and renovated in the 1980s by a previous owner whose reach, in matters of construction, evidently exceeded his grasp in many cases. His attempt to rebuild the foundation culminated in a flurry of disturbingly ad hoc solutions, including a "lally column" supporting the sill beam, which, of course, supports the rest of the house. Or maybe not, since the entire house lately seems to be sinking in the direction of Toledo.
Strictly speaking, a "lally column" is a steel cylinder filled with concrete, although I gather that the modern models are simply strong steel and usually have the threaded ends you describe so that the length of the column can be adjusted. (Ours does, although Mister Know-It-All predictably misjudged the length needed, and the column rests on a disturbing little pile of wooden blocks.) Again strictly speaking, the "Lally" should be capitalized because the "Lally column" is the invention of John Lally, an Irish immigrant who dreamed up the contraption in the 1890s. The "Lally column" was but one of Mr. Lally's inventions sold at the turn of the century by the Lally Column Company in Massachusetts. >>>>
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
>>>>>>>>>>>John Lally, an Irish immigrant who dreamed up the contraption in the 1890s. The "Lally column" was but one of Mr. Lally's inventions sold at the turn of the century by the Lally Column Company in Massachusetts.Well, that messes up my guy's story, unless he was Jr. and said his dad did the inventing. I may have misheard the story.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
http://grantlogan.net/
sure didn't mean to rain on your parade Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Here is the baby lally. Goes down to 1'10" which is nice except that my space from pad to bottom of 2x12 will be 1'9". No way I'm going back to dig those forms deeper in. That would offset the time saved using the lally's instead of concrete blocks.
Seem like heavy duty suckers. Puts jack posts to shame.
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jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
Edited 9/25/2006 1:14 pm by JohnT8
I once jacked an addition on my parents house up using those. The original footer was inadequate and it was sinking away from the house. I dug under the footer in several places and put cap blocks under the jacks and kept pushing them down until there was room for another block on top of the first and so on until they compacted the soil below enough that the footer started coming back up (this was a brick veneer building). When I got the whole thing back up (I moved it almost back into it's orginal position), I poured a new footer under the old one, leaving the jacks in the middle of it.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
http://grantlogan.net/
That is a bit more fun than I want to sign on for. Nice to know those posts are durable though.
Last night I was reminding myself of why I like concrete trucks so much... as I mixed up 800+lbs of crete in the crawl (2 pads out of 8). jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
Just a suggestion - you might have thought of it already or the access is the problem. I bought one of those $250 electric concrete mixers from Lowes several years ago and have mixed lots of concrete with it (and loaned it numerous times). You still gotta move the dry components, but it seems they're easier on you to transport than wet mix. Are the floors in place?
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
http://grantlogan.net/
I've only used wheelbarrow, tub, or truck. How long does an 80lbs bag take to mix in one of those suckers?
No subfloor down. And I've still got the ductwork I yanked piled up out back. I might be able to rig a chute. Put down planks to wheel the barrow in on and then dump it down the chute (sounds good in theory). Just don't know if it is worth the hassle or not.
But it does take a while to hoe an 80lbs bag in a tub while sitting next to it in the crawlspace. :)jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
>>>>>>>>>>How long does an 80lbs bag take to mix in one of those suckers?Couple of minutes. Doesn't take much longer to mix three 80 lb bags than one. They're not very heavy and have wheels. You could possibly set some plywood on the joists and park it right over where you're going to pour and just dump it directly out of the hopper.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
http://grantlogan.net/
Spent WAAAAy too long last night just mixing up the crete for ONE pad. Granted, I'm mixing it fairly dry (oatmeal cookie batter), but sheeze!
You've just about got me talked into it. I'll run by Lowes at lunch and see what they've got. Is this the style you've got? $289. If I don't see one I like, maybe I'll run by the rental yards.
Truck crete is just SO much easier/faster.
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jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
Mines similar to that, but less like a wheelbarrow. The mixer's on top with the motor below. Two small wheel's on one end. You mix it and then you flip the drum up and over to the other side to dump it. If I get time, I'll take a pic.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
http://grantlogan.net/
Here's the newer version of mine - mine's at least 7 years old.http://www.redlionproducts.com/v4/prod_mixer.htm
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
http://grantlogan.net/
That is the one at Lowes. Right around $250. Looks rickety compared to those wheel barrow ones. I'm going to check the local rental place prior to pulling the trigger. If a one day rental isn't too bad and not too much of a hassle to drag around, I'd rather not have to store a mixer. And besides, sitting around, it might cause mischief (as I thought up 1001 concrete projects). :)
I've got 5 pads left (just under 5 bags per pad).
jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
The big difference between my older model and the new one is the mixer. Mine is steel and the new one is plastic, but the price is about the same. I've mixed a hell of a lot of concrete and mortar with mine. I usually buy plastic wheelbarrows, FWIW.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
http://grantlogan.net/
You might find a welder that could cut it down.Chucklive, work, build, ...better with wood
My current thought is to look @ LVL prices and see if they're anywhere near reasonable. A 9.5" LVL would make the baby lally's doable.
jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
You don't really need a post that heavy. Did you look at the max loads on those thnigs ???They make lighter-duty jack posts that go down to roughly 16", and RP stocks them.
Surround yourself with the best people you can find, delegate authority, and don't interfere. [Ronald Reagan]
You don't really need a post that heavy. Did you look at the max loads on those thnigs ???
They make lighter-duty jack posts that go down to roughly 16", and RP stocks them.
I had picked up some jack posts to replace the jack posts they'd added on the main beam (the spans between block pillars was too great for their original 3wide 2x8 built up beam so they'd added jack posts).
But I don't know. Pay $17 for a cheapie jackpost, or $20 for those heavy baby lally's?
The only reason I hadn't considered jack posts for my sub-beams is because jack posts fall apart if the load is taken off them. You can bolt the bottom plate to the pad and screw the top plate into the beam, but if something causes a bit of lift on that thing, the jackpost will fall over/apart. Whereas those baby lally's can make a solid connection between pad and beam.
Plus there is my usual tendency towards overkill. ;)
jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
I once roofed the house of the inventor of the lally column (or so he said when asked how he got into the thoroughbred business). His first name was "Jack". So maybe the names are interchangeable.
edit: I forgot to mention his last name was "Lally".
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
http://grantlogan.net/
Edited 9/22/2006 5:41 pm ET by seeyou
Anound here they call them Mono- Posts.