who knows what about natural gas a/c for a midwest climate?
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The only thing I have seen a la internal combustion engine for a/c or refrigeration is stuff for motor homes or refrigerated trucks.
I am curious if there are whole house a/c units that use a natual gas engine to turn the compressor. I wonder what the cost differences are (up front and long term).
Good question, I can't wait to see what turns up.
Check with a York supplier. Our gas department had one installed in thier training building about eight years ago. York paid to have it removed about three years ago, if that tells you anything <G>.
they may still make them for residential use. Theyare like the r/v units, only larger.
I can check with our local York rep. Monday, if you really want to consider ng unit.
Dave
Several years ago This Old House (hold the raspberries, please) used a NG fired absorber unit for air conditioning on a project in Tucson. Robur was the supplier for this unit - check their site http://www.robur.com/ Hope this helps!
I've done my home work on this one and the news is not good. York did make a unit they called the "Marathon" that used a natural gas fired engine to turn the compressor. They only ever made a three ton unit and after some time pulled it from the market. Too bad, I would have bought one. The other alternative is the traditional Amonia absorbtion cycle unit. There was a Swedish company that made a very interesting unit that worked under a partial vacuum that could be driven by solar heated water. Problem was they could not maintain the vacuum. Unless you find something else I'm afraid your out of luck.
Danger on the Ammonia!
That is bigtime in the food service world. It is the big brother freezing / refrigeration system for factories. It probably has some superior qualities It seems like there are 3 or 4 plants each year that evacuate when the ammonia system springs a leak. The last one was 1 month ago about 2 blocks from where I work.
I wouldn't want to have another threatening thing in my house if I could avoid it.
And the point would be? If you can get natural gas, it would seem you can get electrical power, right? So let the utility company maintain their turbines and boilers and send the electrons to you. Then you can use an electric motor like everyone else in an off-the-shelf A/C unit.
Are there other ways to do it? Sure, if you want to be a pioneer. You know who the pioneers are? The ones with arrows in their backs.
Off-the-grid? Then there's a point to looking at propane or diesel-fired I/C engines to absorbive-cycle refrigeration. Or on-site electrical generation. But all the people I know who live off-the-grid 1) made a serious lifestyle choice that precludes A/C, showers, laundry, etc. and 2) couldn't afford a custom system.
Actually the idea of running appliances, especially air conditioners, off of an other energy supply has a lot of merit. The power companies have to build a lot of extra capacity to handle the peak usage times and that capacity sits idle during the off peak times. Having many users using natural gas for their biggest energy sink shaves the peak usage. It also means that they are using the natural gas infrastructure when it at its lowest usage and natural gas is cheapest. Most people do not realise that the net efficiency of a power plant burning hydrocarbons to turn turbines to make elecrticity and deliver it for home consumption is about 33%. That is not very good. If the NG AC is 50% efficient based on the number of BTUs of cooling delivered per BTU of heat being used, then they offer a 34% decrease in the amount of hydrocarbons being burnt to make that cold air. The factor that skewes the whole efficiency equation is that the utilities pay about 20-25% the price we pay for natural gas because they are such a large user. It is my opinion that distributed generation will be a major contributer to the whole energy solution in the short term and NG ACs could be considered a distributed generation source.
the only reason im interested , my neighbor 5 acres down has been using natural gas from his property for 30 years. im wondering if it is worth it to get crazy or just use for the heat and be happy. it is still unknown if ill even be able to find it on my property.
I'm with you Todd, They're drilling on my place as we speak and I'd like to get a gas absorption unit.
Anyone know what the cost of a 4-5 ton Servel unit is?
The factory is closed until the new year.
Scott
I agree with your points (regarding peak usage and the social benefits on distribution power generation). I briefly considered making my own electricity since my NG is so very cheap and I can always use the waste heat. But the engineering and installation costs are so high for custom stuff, even doing my own engineering and plumbing, it didn't seem the payback would ever happen.
At the level of an office building or high school/health club (especially with a pool) co-gen can become viable. Or in more cases if someone is offering an off-the-shelf, mass-produced package.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Edited 1/1/2003 4:03:27 AM ET by David Thomas
Well, there are natural gas and propane units out there, for example:
http://www.socalgas.com/residential/savemoney/gastech.shtml
http://www.nicor.com/nigas/gfyb/reasons.htm
http://www.eren.doe.gov/erec/factsheets/aircond.html
http://delivery.keyspanenergy.com/ps_business/products/natural_gas_cooling.cfm
http://www.swgas.com/residential/apps/aircond.html
But I'm more familiar with the commercial-type gas/propane chillers, like the TOH Tucson project used. http://www.robur.com/gastoac.html
http://www.eurco.com/absorption/
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Read about gas-fired air conditioning in the October 2001 issue of Journal of Light Construction. Gas-fired air conditioners use the ammonia-water absorption process, similar to the old Servel refrigerators; there is no compressor.
Which reminds me: if you ever work on an old (1920-1950) fancy public building (theater, etc) that once had A/C, DON'T get into any lines until you know what they are. Every once in a while, someone vents an old ammonia system into their face and lungs. Not good.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska