All
Lady called me last fall about the red stone work on her front porch. I got too busy and she went south for the winter so it got put off until this summer.
Areas are flaking off this fine sandy grit. Some of the mortar joints need minor reworking. But the horizontal joints between the steps and the floor and steps are opening up.View Image
She wants to to some work to seal the joints and something to prevent the flaking.
I am not a mason, just a carpenter, but I have done some minor concrete work for her and she trusts me to give her good advice. Masons come in two categories around here.
Good at rough work and pouring flatwork for ag projects.
And good all round brick layer/ flatwork types and impossible to get for small jobs.
So what should I tell her to do with the flaking red stone?
What should I use to seal the horizontal joints and still keep the red color? sorry no pictures. (Urethane self leveling caulk and then spread some of the red sand on top?)
I know the columns lean to the right, but I don’t think she wants to do anything about that right now. She lives alone in the house and her husband died 10-15 years ago.
Thank you for your help.
Replies
As far as I know, there is nothing you can do to the sandstone (brownstone) to stop the erosion. I would rec. just re-pointing with a matching mortar, probably tinted. There are masonry conservation specialists that can be consulted for issues like this.
Rich
All
Bump to increase the exposure.
Rich
(Thanks for keeping this one alive.......)I have no experience with this, so my question truly comes from willful ignorance........Obviously, the sandstone is porous enough to absorb some water. Could the flaking be slowed down if some sort of water-sealer were applied?And is the answer to that different, if the location (north vs south) different?
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
Yes
Could the flaking be slowed down if some sort of water-sealer were applied?
That was my thought too, but I don't have the experience to recommend a product or the procedure.
Rich
Is she using ice-melting chemicals in the winter such as salt or calcium chloride pellets? I believe that such things will hasten the deterioration of stone, especially softer stones like sandstone.
Look around the rest of the house for similar deterioration. I suspect it will be present only where you would expect an ice melter to be used.
As for the leaning columns, I suspect a failing foundation beneath that section of porch.
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Pete
The red stone is used only on the porch. The rest of the foundation is limestone.
I don't know if she uses salt. I will ask.
The severe flaking around the corner from the posts would not any exposure to salt.
Picture #4 is right behind the bushes in picture #5. Those leaning columns are on right side of picture #1.
Rich
Edited 6/7/2009 2:15 pm ET by cargin
I've never worked with sandstone, so my advice is
very general on this one.
Yes, a quality masonry sealer usually can help with soft stone
deteriorating (some).
Some manufactures make claims that the new surface is actually
harder in addition to being weather resistant.
Any way to lessen the water beating down on the stone?
Some gutters maybe?
Henley
Thanks for the reply.
It's been 4 months since I was there and I did not take a picture up.
I believe it had a gutter.
But that is a good point to consider. Not all installed gutters work properly.
Rich
This is specialty professional conservation work for the brownstone - it's spalling/flaking which is what brownstone does.
The firm I would recommend in the east is BCA - http://www.bcausa.com/
The last thing that I would recommend is any sort of sealer - that will really do a number on it, although a water repellent may be called for. The salting is a good point - that will destroy the stone.
Jeff
Jeff
Thank you for the reply.
I don't know what you mean by
The last thing that I would recommend is any sort of sealer - that will really do a number on it, although a water repellent may be called for
Seems like a little water repellency but not too much.
Looks like I may be out of my element here.
Rich
Sealer: (silicone, etc.) - traps moisture in stone, increasing spalling.
Water repellent: (silane, siloxanes) - breathes but helps stone reject surface water.
Jeff
jeff
thanks
rich
Good point, but all masonry sealant are specifically
made to breath. I just want to clarify for potential lurkers who could get confused. It's not just sandstone (brownstone) but all natural stone must
be allowed to breath or the salts in the water and or stone will
accumulate just behind the surface. That in turn causes spalling. But, to reiterate- The term "masonry sealer" commonly means a
product specifically made with that property, but it is always
prudent to make sure.
Jeff and All
I called a retired mason to come with me and look over the project.
He is the kind that is still working on little stuff and communtiy projects in the parks and such. Not thing big.
He can run with the project and I can advise her on getting gutters and managing water from the roof.
Rich
Sounds like a plan - you might also find this interesting - http://www.nps.gov/history/hps/rehabyes-no/rehabyes1.htm - often a great source of 'dos' and 'don'ts'
Also - http://www.oldhousejournal.com/Brownstone_Rides_Again/magazine/1319
And - http://www.mzarchitects.com/images/PPN/BrownstoneGuide.pdf
Jeff
Edited 6/9/2009 8:21 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
This is Brownstone. I have not seen quarried brownstone ever being installed (very old-school and $$$), but I see it repaired regularly (just about every day in NYC) using a stucco-like mixture which is sculpted while still wet.
http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2006/06/flipside_of_pro.php
First, you must chisel away a decent amount the existing material in order to apply a minimum thickness. Then you mix the stucco-like material and apply it in 2 coats. First coat is a basecoat which is applied as the basic form and left very rough. The second/ final coat is applied and sculpted wet, into the final form. Built-up is about 1".
You will need trowels/ knives which are cut to the profile you want to end up with and a few pointing tools to refine the details.
You should be able to find companies who do this and just this. It requires an artisan or at least someone who does it regularly.
Frankie
Flay your Suffolk bought-this-morning sole with organic hand-cracked pepper and blasted salt.
Thrill each side for four minutes at torchmark haut. Interrogate a lemon.
Embarrass any tough roots from the samphire. Then bamboozle till it's al dente with that certain je ne sais quoi.
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Frankie
Thanks for the input.
You should be able to find companies who do this and just this
This is Iowa, and we seen very little of this kind of construction. But I'll keep looking and asking. The lady has to want to spend the money.
I lived in the Park Slope area on 11th St back in 1993. We were about 2 blocks from where the brownstones started.
They were amazing buildings. I just couldn't believe that quality of building one after another.
Rich
I live in Southern California and knew a lot of old time plaster and stucco guys. They would reccomend FogCoat. Fogcoat is the colored cement without the sand in it. It is mixed with water and applied with a brush or Hudson sprayer. Like stucoo, it drys to a hard surface that will protect the sandstone, and it will also allow moisture to pass thru. Comes in all sorts of colors.
Never seal or paint the sandstone, moisture behind it will make chunks peel off.
Sungod
Thanks for the reply.
I will Google Fogcoat and see what I can find.
Rich