They’re predicting a wet winter for us here in northern CA, and I have a number serious caulking challenges in front of me. Based on an article in the magazine I’m planning to use a synthetic rubber (Lexel or OSI Quad), and for prep basically use elbow grease along with putty knife. Let me know if you have any suggestions. I’d rather spend money and save time, but it’s work I want to do myself. Specific problems below:
1. Sealant between railing and tile. See attached “post.jpgâ€. It needs to adhere to both aged wood and the ceramic tile. It gets direct sunlight. Any recommendations on efficiently getting the grime off? Is there a solvent that would work here? I’m considering a power washer but I’m afraid I’ll do more harm than good.
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2. See the “caulking†photos. The “interesting” architecture of the house was probably stunning when it was built 40 years ago, but it doesn’t do well with rain. The design has exposed structural elements with little protection. This wall gets a lot of sun and weather. “caulking2.jpg” shows the post that provides the main support for the vaulted roof and the horizontal beams that attach to it. The blue sections in each corner are windows reflecting the sky. A close-up shows the gaps. I suspect we’ll have to have the wall rebuilt at some point. In the mean time, any recs for prepping? Putty knife, heat, and force? Anything else? Again, is something like OSI Quad the right product here?
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3. See “deck.jpg”. The wall meets an exterior deck. No flashing. Despite my best caulking efforts last year water still flowed through somewhere around the point in the photo and came dripping out below. One question I’ve not yet explored is how much rot there is on the structural elements directly beneath the wall/deck junction.
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4. And for your amusement, “tenant.jpg” shows someone who moved in to the cover I placed over the exposed beams. These have varying amounts of rot on the upper surface. As a temporary measure I slapped some flexible flashing on top, leaving a gap for air circulation.
Thanks much for your assistance!
-Bob
Replies
My first comment is "Keep the Bat!" (I love bats.)
My second comment is that you're chasing your tail trying to fix those issues with caulk. That wood is in pretty bad shape and any caulk you put at the seams will be all but worthless, since a lot of water is going to get in anyway at the cracks in the wood surfaces, etc. My guess is that the whole thing is improperly designed/built from a flashing/drainage perspective. You can't remedy improper drainage and flashing with caulk.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
A few well placed trim boards will give you better edges to caulk. Snap a picture from farther back and maybe someone can give you a few ideas.
Bob
I second what Mike H says.
You have alot of moisture issues.
Trust me it's worse underneath then you expect.
Caulk will probably only hold existing moisture in.
I would tear off a couple of pieces of trim and get a good look.
Or bore a couple of test holes that you could fill with bondo.
Rich
Those cracks look to me to be an outward sign of an underlaying structural issue. It could be that structural members are rotted enough to be of concern.
Caulking is a first line of defense. But you always have to assume that it will fail, because eventually it does, so it can't take the place of proper flashing and sound building techniques (housewrap, grading, and good material choice).
I've not had good experiences with Lexel. It does an incredible job of covering a joint and stays flexible, but it is also not very mildew resistant. Polyurethane sealant is the best, hands down.
In general, are there particular brands of polyurethane you like?
thanks,
Bob
I've used mostly Quad and Vulchem for the last 10 years. Good stuff.I'm gonna guess that PL's polyurethane caulk is good, too, since their PL Premium glue that I use is the shizzle-dog.View Image
Caulk, and the various techniques to apply and the basic requirements of caulk, is not something that is well understood in these parts. A well caulked job will last a lifetime, if the caulk is properly maintained (annual inspection and touch ups).
"A well caulked job will last a lifetime," Call me surprised but I've only been doing this for 40 years. Where is this lifetime caulk? Maintenance work is what we do now and we use a lot of caulk. We do great prep and are very careful but it all leaks sooner or later. And "touch ups?" My caulking rule number one is never try to touch up caulk. The worst rot damage we work on usually has touched up caulk.
You chopped my sentence and then try to make a case? Bad, bad, bad.
So, you never "touch up". That means when you spot a one inch crack in the caulk bead, you strip the entire house and recaulk everything? Or, do you break your number one rule
the other side of that arguement is where you say a caulk hjob can last forty years, then follow with saying it needs yearly toucch ups...I don't believe they had forty year caulk forty years ago. They do now I think, but there are another dozen variables that make the tag line to that necessary, raising the question, if Ihave a car for forty years, and wear out 90% of the parts during that time requiring repaitr and replaceemnt, did the car really last forty years?
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I'd venture to say that a very significant reason that caulk fails is because of installer error. Another big reason is that the users choose the wrong type.
The plywood on the OPs job is certainly degraded and the reason could be failed caulk ...but....I didn't see a proper space for caulk in that flush application. The best caulk that the world offers will fail if it's not installed properly.
Carpenters are proud of creating exterior joints that don't have any gaps but the caulk needs those gaps. The gaps allow the proper size bead which can flex with movement rather than cracking and tearing away.
That wall could have easily been stablized and preserved, with caulk, if they had originally provided a 3/8" proud post instead of building everything flush. I have no doubt that I could have preserved that exterior plywood for centuries with a normal maintenance program...which includes "touching up" caulk if/when it fails. Of course, that statment also assumes a well maintained, proper thickness, paint skin that the caulk can adhere to on the outside of the skin.
" a very significant reason that caulk fails is because of installer error"
Yep, installing caulk in this situation would be a pretty serious error, all right!;)
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Come on Jim, I enjoy your post so don't go getting peevish on me. But to answer your question, If I see a one inch gap after the caulk has dried I do strip it out and caulk that section over. I never put wet caulk over dry caulk.
I'm not getting peevish. I'm just getting you to admit that you do "touch up" caulk.
Obviously, there is a right and a wrong way to "touch up" caulk too. The point is: caulk needs to be maintained annually. It's not a tough thing to do but it is often neglected.
but it is often neglected. "as the photos here made obvious.
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But I don't "touch up" caulk. I touch up paint. I remove old caulk and replace with new, that's not touch up.
This thread was started by a guy who obviously doesn't understand caulking. He's got serious rot problems that need to be addressed and no amount of caulking in the world is going to help. Talking about "touching up" is only going to confuse the issue.
Semantics...lolShall we check spelling two?
If that is true Jim, there is no good reason to mention it here, since it is not possible to do a proper caulk job on what this place is.Poorly designed and executed from the beginning, and now with damage already done to much end grain. To get a good caulk job, you need to have clean dry sound wood. I can't think of a way to get those joints all clean and dry totally.But I can get them more sound.
He needs to get the Abatron manual and learn to do epoxy repairs by drilling and injecting epoxy.Short of rebuilding the wall, that is the only thing that will be a good long term, solution.
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Thank you. Took the words out my mouth.
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
and this one looks like it is getting close to becoming a very sour sow
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The one you mentioned (Quad, I think) is the same that I buy at my local lumberyard, I believe. I've used it to fill butt joints on cement-board siding, and it is the ONLY sealant that has lasted more than a few weeks (James Hardie now recommends felt paper behind the joints and no caulk, and now I know why). I've got some joints that are still going strong one year later. The only way to get a clean joint is with mineral spirits.
Thanks for the replies!
See attached for a wider view. Also attached is my naive idea about flashing. I'd welcome any other ideas. I'm stumped about the wall/deck junction. Should I put flashing under the window trim and extend it (the flashing) out on top of the deck?
Finally, I've roughly cleaned around the posts and am poised to do a final cleaning with "Mr Clean", then caulk with Lexel. See Post2.jpg. If you know of a better way, let me know!
Thanks again!
-Bob
All that low trim stays wet from splashing water. I'd be replacing it with solid PVC like Azek with flashing like your example. While I was replacing trim I'd put sloped sills on them. You've got a tough situation that isn't going to be helped with caulk. The post to deck joint will always rot, with the tile on top there just isn't a good way to flash it that doesn't depend on caulk.
Caulk always fails. You won't know when it fails until you see the rot. If you're depending on caulk to keep water out you have bigger issues. I'd be wanting to remove the grout around the deck post to let at least some air in before. It's going to rot anyway but it might buy you a little time.
You won't be able to seal any of that with caulk but you can trap the water in those joints with it so they rot faster. You've already got lots of rot under those joints now. Spend your time and money fixing things right rather than on caulk.
Wait until next summer and rip out what you can of the worst and and use a system to restore the rest. Piffin mentoined Albitron, I like Smith and Co.
But be prepared to spend some money. Nice house by the way.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
That IS a nice house. Old enough now to get a big round of repair/remodeling. Put some bandaid/caulk/paint on it for now, get ready for the big reno.View Image