I just turned 50 a month or so ago and swinging that hammer for my projects seems to be getting a bit more difficult these days. I’ve got quite a bit of stuff I still need to do; deck extension, fencing, some interior framing, various outdoor projects. Handing the hammer to the husband figure isn’t an option (pretty good shadetree mechanic but if saws and nails are involved? Best to run for cover.) I bought a deWalt D51844 yesterday on the basis of some decent reviews I’d read (afterwards finding some really horrid reviews of course) but now come to find that the 20-22° strips seem very limited in any decent selection. Or maybe I’m looking in the wrong spot. I’ve about decided to take it back and get something else. Unless someone can convince me otherwise. I’ve done some poking around on the FH site looking at articles (at least THAT search function works somewhat,) but of course there’s nothing like firsthand experience.
Don’t want anything too heavy, ±8lbs or so although if it’s well balanced that tends to cancel out extra weight, full round head, something I can find some blasted nails for! Don’t want a bump trigger (being as how I’m an amateur, although a very talented amateur ;-),) since it’s not going to be a production tool anyway. I absolutely adore my Bostitch finish nailer, and I’ve also been looking at the Hitachi NR90 although both are a bit more expensive than the deWalt is/was. Comments and recommendations?
Replies
CindyTR
You won't be wrong with a Bostich nails are available at any big box stores. IN fact I would expect since Bostich is owned by the big boy Stanley it's going to be the most readily available nails on the market.. The Bopstich framing nailer is the big dog when it comes to impact strength.. That's important if you nail into gluelams or hardwoods, even old growth or well seasoned wood can pose a problem for some nailers. . Most framing nailers use 880 pounds while Bostich uses 1000 pounds..
I love my Hitachi nailers (I have two) but for framing I still prefer the 1000 pounds of the Bostich over the 880 of the Hitachi..
The Bostich is bigger than most nailers but lighter.. comes with both triggers! you put in whichever you want..
Is this the one with the wire-collated nails? Any pros/cons over wire-collated as opposed to paper or plastic (sounds like I'm at the grocery . . . ) Extra power is quite appreciated. I'm a pretty good nail pounder but I've found this 50 year old SYP that frames this house a bit of a cussin' challenge, although there won't be that much that I'll need to be nailing into the actual house.You know, I get many more tools and I might just as well go into business. Ahaha.edit: Oh, by the way, any problems with toe-nailing with that one since you say it's bigger? I like the weight of that one according to the Bostitch site (7.6 pounds for the F28WW 28° model.) I realize the stick nailers don't hold as many nails as the coil models, but being concerned with trying to hold the weight down I think I'd do better with a stick since it should be lighter when loaded.
Edited 3/21/2007 3:01 pm ET by CindyTR
I would recommend the Paslode Powermaster framing nailer, I believe the number is F350S. We've had two of them for about five years with no problems other than one needed a seal replaced in the head after being dropped from a second story roof onto a concrete pad. They're lightweight, well balanced, and easy to work with. I just looked on Ebay and you can get a slightly used one for about $100.00 or less.
When ours needed to be serviced the local Fastenal dealer fixed it for thirty bucks including the part and labor so I wouldn't be too worried about the cost to repair if it does break.
I prefer the stick nailers over coil but that's just a matter of personal preference. For most small jobs the stick nails would be sufficient and easier to change sizes than dealing with partially used coils.
The other nailer that I have used with good results are the Hitachi stick nailers, they have plenty of power but are slightly larger in size.
I handled a couple of the Paslodes while "shopping." Seemed to be a good, well built tool but didn't fit my hand quite right. I think the balance was a bit off for me. Still may consider it though. It's not like I'm going to be using it 8 hours (or more) a day like you guys :-).
look into the Hitachies...
most all of them are good enough to do what you want...
the coil nailers load get heavy compared to the stick style..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Hi Cindy,
I'm going to recommend a different nailer to you... it's the smaller Hitachi coil nailer here:
http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-NV75AG-4-Inch-3-Inch-Framing/dp/B00007ISWV/ref=sr_1_12/104-9698322-6249519?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1174512632&sr=1-12
It only weighs 5.5 lbs but can shoot up to 3"x.131 framing nail which will allow you accomplish anything I'd imagine you'd want to tackle... wall framing, deck framing, siding, fencing, etc.
It shoots standard wire coils as well as the plastic collated coils. You can get common nails, galvies, and/or SS nails easily that will fit this nailer. Coil nailers are also less prone to jamming with smaller size nails than most of the stick nailers. It also has a tool-less adjustable depth of drive which is really handy when you're switching tasks or nail sizes.
It's smaller than average size (closer to the size of a siding nailer than a framing nailer) will also allow it get into some tighter spots than a standard size framing nailer. This can be very handy for remodeling type projects.
And Hitachi's durability is just fantastic. I own 13 Hitachi nailers and they've all held up exceptionally well in daily use with my crew.
Dang! That's nice! That's very tempting. Especially since supposedly it will work for FC siding also. It would be nice if Lowe's actually had one of those in stock since Hitachi lists them as a dealer (I'm not holding my breath.) Hopefully Lowe's won't give me any flack about returning the deWalt. I remember the last time I returned a tool (interestingly enough a deWalt also, a drywall screwdriver model that just didn't have the torque to get into the 50+ year old SYP that this house is framed with.) I really think they thought I bought it, used it for the job and then was returning it. If they have that one I may actually get it. I'll have to see what I can find. Hitachi has another dealer listed fairly close which I have never heard of. I suspect they're counter sales which means I'd have to know exactly what I want when I go in. Sometimes with pictures :-).
Here's that Hitachi on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300092052366&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D300092052366%26fvi%3D1
Dieselpig, I'm in the market for a gun as well. I've used only Bostitch Stick @ work. But, I like the size & versatility idea of the gun you are suggestingMy question: You've owned this Hitachi in particular ? Good enough for a large deck and a garage project w/o beating it ? Thanks & Yankees--- (wrong forum)Edited 3/21/2007 8:26 pm ET by greenmacheenEdited 3/21/2007 8:28 pm ET by greenmacheen
Edited 3/21/2007 8:37 pm ET by greenmacheen
Hitachi rules. we have 3 coil framers, 2 stick framers,1 coil roofer, 1 hanger nailer,
and 2 more coil nailers for small nails. Can't beat the reliablity or durabilty.
Yes, I own one of that gun. I actually happened upon it by chance. I needed another siding nailer and my tool store was out of stock with the NV65's. So I bought one of the 75's since it would shoot the same nails and was almost the same size as a siding nailer. My guys like it now for overhead work like strapping ceilings and we still use it occasionally for siding and exterior trim as well. It doesn't have the power to keep up with the full size framing guns. We're typically running at least four guns, sometimes more and when the compressor is between cycles, this nailer is the one that will leave the nails proud.
But as a single gun running off something as small as a pancake compressor I don't see any problems what-so-ever with it keeping up. Build-wise it's as durable as any of the other Hitachi framers I own. It's just that it's smaller size had to allow it to give up something, somewhere. So it gives up a little bit of power, but also gives up a lot of the bulk.
I really only buy Hitachi nailers now. It's just a no-brainer for me. I put so little into them and get so much out of them. There are guns with more tricks and treats on them, but nobody's got a better service record. Maybe some are as good, but none better IMO. To date for Hitachi nailers I've got a narrow crown stapler, a 16ga, a 15ga, two coil siding nailers, the one 75 hybrid we're talking about, three full size coil nailers, four stick nailers, and a cordless stick nailer. All of them have been very good to me.View Image
One more: Does it have enough power to nail into old dimensional lumber & timber ? (I've got an older house)
Hmmm. If I was running book it looks like the best odds are on Hitachi. As for the nails, I did find a much better selection at the HD yesterday; I've found my local Lowe's to be a bit Abby Normal in some ways like trying to find 1/4" drywall and flexible bead for an arch. Ended up going to a "real" drywall supply yard for a lousy single sheet of the stuff. That was an experience in and of itself.I'd like to get started on this project this weekend (replacing a sill plate and exterior wall that was originally built to enclose a concrete porch. No flashing. Guess what happened to the sill plate and lower parts of the 2x4s and sheathing???) But I'm also going to be living with this framer for a while so naturally I want to make a good decision.
CindyTR
I can't say anything bad about both of the Hitachi's I own. One developed a problem but the dealer fixed it quickly and while I waited so I won't hold that issue against Hitachi.
Too be fair the Bostich tends to stick a bit the first load of nails thru it. The solution is to drown the nail slide with WD40 and then it's smooth as heck since (and no further application of WD40).
Whatever brand you buy, get their oil.
Not that other brands won't work but if you have a problem that seems to satisfy them and they go right ahead and fix stuff..
You asked earlier about toe nailing with the Bostich. it's never been a problem.
Again I think that the greater impact of the Bostich is an advantage with older harder wood. I hear all about turning up the pressure but that's not recommended by any manufacturer.
I'd say a full size framer would be better suited for that application. In fact, some of my full size framers would still leave the occasional nail proud under those circumstances.View Image
GM,
I caught your question on this thread to DiesilPig. My boss and I just finished siding a verrry old farm house that was 1x14 oak sheathing over oak studs. The hitachi did not miss a beat, never jammed, and the only time it would not set the nail correctly (4 in. exposure primed cedar) was at the corner boards. Understandable as the four corners of the main house were 8x8 ploughed corner posts running all the way from foundation to roof. Whoever the carpenter was 120 yrs ago must have been a tough sucker!
I have the PC magnesium, very light, uses the paper collated clipped head up to 16d nails. It has served me very well over the past 4 years. Use that with the 1/4" ultra light urethane hose and you'll see what a difference it makes. The GC I do a lot of sub work for has the Hitachi that Diesel is showing you. It's really a fine gun.
Also, I went ahead and bought the Stilletto Titanium hammers, 14 oz framer and 10 oz finisher. I'm also in my 50's now and it tools like these that help see you through those long days, weeks,months & years without the aches and pains. You'll be amazed at what a difference those things make.
The 20-22° plastic collated strips that the Dewalt nailer you bought uses, is just about the most commonly available nail strips out there.
The Hitachi stick nailer that someone mentioned uses the same nail strips, as do a lot of other nail guns.
Go to a real lumber yard or a construction nail supply house to find a wide assortment of nails. You will find you can get just about anything, smooth, ring or screw shank, galvanized, stainless, etc. etc.
I am also a fan of the Bostich products and have some 20 year old Bostich guns that still work great, a old N80 clipped head stick nailer, a old T-something 1/2" crown sheathing stapler, and a old T-something 1" crown roofing stapler. I have never done anything to the staplers and just replaced the seals in the framing gun, besides cleaning them.
If you want a great deal go on Ebay and look at the Bostich F21PL. It uses the same nails as the Dewalt you bought and can also shoot metal connector nails, and has smart trigger so you can fire it both ways sequential or contact.
I just bought one of the F21PL's on Ebay for $99 plus $30 shipping. These are reconditioned and have a full factory warranty. I bought a Bostich N88RH-MCN reconditioned on Ebay a couple of years ago, and no problems and it looked brand new not a scratch on it. The F21PL has replaced the N88RH-MCN and has the ability to fire both ways, the old N88RH-MCN will only fire sequentially.
Reasons I bought this F21PL: Nails are commonly available, it was getting hard to find the wire collated clipped head nails for the old N80, It can shoot metal connector nails, It was a lot cheaper than anything else, at my local Home Depot, Lowes, etc. the cheapest price for it was $239, the Hitachi NR83 was $279, and the newer Hitachi was more. And I have had good luck with Bostich guns.
I also own Senco finish guns, a SFN1 and LS5, Max coil guns CN665 that I use for siding and sheathing and because they will shoot a real 8D 2.5" nail and has a lot of power.
That coil nailer that diesel suggest is a very good all around nailer. For the regular stick, I would go with the hitachi NR83A (they have NR83A2, etc for depth setting options, etc. but they are the same nailer with different options) I know that diesel has the NR83's as his main nailer. They are a basic nailer but indestructable. And as someone else said, the 22 degree plastic collated nails are the most available, every big box and lumber yard should have plenty of sizes available.
If you can't find the nailer local, just go through amazon.com, coastal tools, etc. You'll get better pricing that way too.
I have the Paslode cordless framer and I like it very much. I like not having to drag a compressor to a job not to mention fighting with that stupid hose all day. As for finding nails for it - they're just a trip to the home center away.
IMHO all nailers are heavy, but you have to decide what is best for YOU and your situation (and your pocketbook).
UBC
I have to throw in my MAX preference, especially with the call for a lightweight nailer. I have the tried and true SN890RH, which convinced another contractor I work with to buy the new SN883RH at a cool 7 lbs and compact size. Start using it and you'll realize it's in a whole 'nother class. Very nimble and really light action with the same performance.
The store pointed out (Hard Hat in Seattle) it's $50 less than the Hitachi, and have sold way more to happy customers. Only the rear loading takes an adjustment if you're used to a top loader, and I absolutely love their anti-double fire triggers.
Edited 3/24/2007 8:55 am by Steddy
I guess it's a matter of opinion, but I've owned the Max framers too and didn't like them at all. I've still got one, but none of my guys ever take it out of the truck unless there's nothing else left in there. Nice features and design, but waaaaay too slow and feels much bulkier than the Hitachi stick nailers. Like I said... just a matter of opinion though.View Image
Thanks guys. I've decided to go with the Hitachi NR90AE as it just felt better in my hand. For some reason the Bostitch didn't feel quite right, and since I may be frequently changing nail sizes I feel that a stick nailer is a better choice than a coil for my particular situation. I did get the deWalt returned (took 20 minutes, not unexpected,) but of course my local Lowe's is out of stock on this particular model (who would have thought there'd be a run on nailers???) and isn't expecting another shipment until Monday. Since I didn't feel like driving halfway across town to pick one up today, for today's work I'm doing it the old fashioned way, with a hammer. I did buy a new hammer anyway ;-), which is much better balanced than my old one and so should make things a bit easier. I've used a 16oz hammer for years, this one is a 20oz (24oz was too long for me) yet feels lighter than the 16. This should help. I think my husband is getting used to me saying "The guys on Breaktime said . . . " Atcha later. I gotta go tear a wall down (the fun never ends.)
I've decided to go with the Hitachi NR90AE as it just felt better in my hand
And at the end of the day, that's often the most important part of the whole decision making process. As long as you can get nails easily (which you can) you're good to go. Great observation regarding switching nails too, I too find it easier to swap lengths when using a stick nailer instead of a coil nailer.
Course once the disease really kicks in you'll want one of each. :)
Good luck with your projects... sounds like you've got your head around 'em just fine.View Image
I'm also looking into purchasing a Framing nailer. After much reading on several different discussion boards I think I'm going to go with a full round head Hitachi NR83. I see Hitachi offers the NR 83 in two models, one with depth control and one without depth control. Are there any advantages of one over the other? Is the model with depth control (NR83a2) worth the extra expense? Or is this convenience feature just something to break and cost a repair? Does the NR83 have a safety on some kind to prevent dry firing like some brands do?
What's your thought on the Paslode F350S Powermaster Plus? I have read a good deal of positive feedback on Paslode framing guns, but I'm still leaning toward the Hitachi since it tends to get more positive comments. I like that the Paslode comes with a rafter hook and does not use plastic collated nails, which many grip about the little plastic "stingers" in the face.
Any first-hand input would be appreciated in helping me finalize my decision.
Edited 3/24/2007 3:27 pm ET by REA
I have 12 of the Hitachi NR83A'S. Two of them have the depth control, no real difference in operation but the depth control is convenient when nailing off shear panel and other sheeting. My oldest Hitachi is well north of 20 years old and most if not all of the repair parts interchange with the newer ones. I use it at least once a week just to say I can. The NR83A nailer has a proven track record and is a solid tool. I have tried many other brands, some are lighter and have cooler bells and whistles, but for day in and day out framing this is still my favorite.
I have 2 or 3 of the Powermaster framing guns. I like them. They were very reliable. I switched to coil framers a while ago so I didn't have to reload alot, or carry half a box of nails in my pouch.
They shoot clipped head and full round head. The full round head nails have the heads a little offset from center.
I haven't used a Hitachi framer, so I can't compare the two with any validity. Thoughts determine what you want,Action determines what you get
Looks like you have a new job here Brian.
Your reputation is beginning to precede you.
Perhaps it's time to start a new thread; "who has the MOST tools".
[email protected]
Max 883RH. Got several of 'em and that's all we use. Light, shorter housing to get into tighter spots, etc. I use them professionally so the price isn't a concern, they are a little higher than the Hitachi's and I'm not fond of the Paslodes. Inspectors are starting to have issues with clipped heads around here so we just stick with full round. Max is built for real world use. Very well built by people who do their homework.
For my mony iv'e always used bostich, they always work. And for syp you need the high power stick models. Plus they have a good depth adj. for your decks - chip - siding and i think also magnesium to help with weight. Nails are easy to find. You might even be able to sell it after you projects are done. Not to say tha t other brands aren't as good but each carpenter has his own preference. I got turned off to paslode years ago when I bought the impulse frame and finish nailers, I'de throw em in a lake if I hadn't paid so much for them.
Take the high road, and give those impulse nailers to someone. I gave my two last Paslode Impulse framers to a window contractor. He uses them for setting windows. He was out zero dollars and I am a hero.
The road less traveled.
The high road.
Good for you._______________________________________________________________
It ain't what you make, it's what you don't spend
In my experience the nails you need are readily available from box stores to lumber yards to fastener suppliers.20/22 ° is common to Porter Cable ,bostich, grizzly ,hitachi and lots more.If you ever need special nails such as stainless steel, aluminum etc,check out websites such as Maze.
mike
Hitachi Framing Nailers. Are there any others out there? Well, there shouldn't be. Nobody can beat the reliability of these nailers.
Just my opinion.
Mikey
Ocean State Builders, Inc.
oceanstatebilderinc,
There is another framer out there and it needs to be.. I own two Hitachi nailers and they are great nail guns, but for real impact you need the Bostich.. The impact of your Hitachi is 880 pounds, fine for most applications.. however the impact of the Bostich is 1000 pounds which if you are nailing gluelams or hardwood or old growth well dried anything is called for otherwise the nail gun is just a nail starter gun and will require you to pull your hammer out..
IMHO
This is fun :-)! Well, maybe not fun exactly, but it sure as heck beats hammering by hand (I did get the Hitachi by the way.)And yes Frency, you are correct, it's not real happy with the old SYP, but only on some toe-nailing. Seems to be doing fine on the straight nailing so far. Got a bit carried away . . . I think I'm doing hurricane spacing. I may need to go back and get that 5,000 count box of nails after all. And I thought the Powder Charge Fastener was fun!
Frenchy,Thanks for the info, and now that you say that, I realize that I always do pull out the hammer to finish nails into LVL's. However, does that extra 120 lbs. of force put an extra strain on the o-rings or driver shaft? In my opinion, that is where Hitachi surpasses the rest: Reliability, and the cost effectiveness of the repairs when seldom needed.Although I prefer the Hitachi, I will give the Bostich Nailer a try.Thanks Again
Mikey
Ocean State Builders, Inc.
oceanstatebuildersinc,
Just the opposite actually, I think a lot of guys pump up the pressure on their compressors to get them to sink big nails into gluelams. That's what hurts the nail gun, not operating it at proper design pressure. It's a matter of leverage, if you notice the Bostich is bigger than most framing nailers.
One warning about the Bostich framing nailer. The first box of nails you run thru will tend to stick a bit. Spray the slide down generously with WD40 and it will work just fine from then on.. if you start to get misfires spray it down again. By the time you run the second box thru it it wears in well enough to not be a problem from then on.