All
I am going to break the rules and ask for help estimating.
We did 7 roofs this spring ( 200 sq) all with tear offs. 1 and 2 layer asphalt.
I have done a number of 2 story 3 layer tearoffs (1 wood shingle and 2 asphalt) in the past.
But I looked at a 28 year old shake roof (52 sq) today that is in very bad shape.
6/12 pitch, 2 story and access mostly from the driveway. Most of the shakes will have to be carried over to the driveway area and thrown into the truck.
The shakes are stapled into plywood (1/2″). But I am fairly certain that they are going to crumble into alot of shovel work.
Anyways, should I treat this like I would a 1 layer wood, 2 layer asphalt tear off(pretty standard old 2 story roof around here).
I did a shake tear off a about 10 years ago, but the farmer, his wife and the hired man all helped and my memory is not that sharp. It was a one story 4/12 with tractor and bucket access all around the house. I just remember alot of dirt and debris. And alot of tarpaper.
Shakes wouldn’t dump out of the truck. Had to remove most by hand.
Thanks
Rich
Replies
My house is 19 square and when I tore off 1 layer cedar shingles + 1 layer shakes it was about 1 yard per square in the dumpster. It was nailed and the roofing just busted off around the nails with nothing stuck to the roof. I think those staples are going to give you a serious headache, with little bits of cedar stuck under them all over the place.
Last weekend I took off about 5 square of completely worn-thru asphalt over 1 layer of cedar shingles. Everything nailed. It took two of us about two hours. We were able to get a dump truck under almost the entire thing, except one short section where we had to let it hit the ground. That was about 4 yards in the truck.
david
I think those staples are going to give you a serious headache
I think you are right. Nails are easier to pull. These will be half corroded.
worn-thru asphalt over 1 layer of cedar shingles.
We can usually get that type of roof to come up in squares or at least sections.
Thr roofing nails usually don't penetrate the sheathing, so they come up with the wood shingles. Still a lot of debris.
Thanks
Rich
hopefully the staples are rusted, if not you will go nuts taking the shakes off, With nails you can use a bar but if the staples are still good they will not allow you to rip up the shakes, they will hold the wood under them
bobbys
Thanks for the good news.
I am afraid the wood will crumble around the staples.
Not much holding power left in this wood.
Rich
rich.... based on what you posted here... i'd take your best estimate of production from the past and double it for the tear-off/ clean-up/ clean deck prep phaseMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
Thanks
Rich
Cargin,
I don't think it needs to be as bad as you fear--or as bad as some of the other guys are leading you to believe.
you might need a different technique and a different tool.plywood deck--NOT skip sheathed?--stapled shakes??--right. OK-- the AJC hatchet company makes a tool that will work well for this if you use it right--called the shingo-shovel.---we use them almost exclusively here
starting at the top of the roof shove the shingo under the shake untill you find the 'line' the staples run in-and work 3-4 fteet across the roof.
the teeth on the shingo will get in the staple and pull both legs out of a plywood deck( in a solid 1x deck however-invariably one leg will let go and one leg will remain buried--leaving a forest of wire sticking up out of the deck to be pulled later with pliers.
it's one of those things where slowing down just a little bit and working methodically is MUCH faster over allthe pitchfork idea???--yes it will get the shingles off in a hurry----but then you still have a zillion staples to go back over and deal with
with the shingo shovel----you will be pulling the staples and the shingles out in the same pass.---It looks much slower intitially--but you save almost all of the "de-stapling' time you would have with the pitchfork.We had a guy working for us this spring--a real beast for work--loved one layer tearoffs---- on asphalt shingle roofs he would often pry up an area--grap that area with his hands and gove it a big RIIIIIIP----could often tear off n area 3ft. x 12 feet or so that way---an area so big it was hard to roll up and lift the shingles torn loose---------------------- guy was quite proud of this technique because it "tore-off a big area in a hurry"--- but ultimately it was much slower
doing it MY way-was much faster---when i was done tearing off--the nails and staples were also pulled---and just a broom needed to be run--often just a leaf blower. My area would be done and i would be off to another task while he was still pounding nails and pulling staples.the clean up is much easier than you might think--but it is dusty. use big scoop shovels-each shovel full weighs next to nothing---it's much easier than cleaning up asphalt shingles. they WILL however take up much more room in the dump truck/dump trailer/dumpster.-the load won't weigh anything at all--it's mostly air for it size--but it will be maybe 3 times the volume you are used to.
BTW- you will wantNEW sharp teeth on the shingo---or the teeth will NOT fit in between the legs of the staple.Best wishes,
stephen
stephen
This is what we use.
Thanks for the input.
Yes plywood deck, 1/2 ply. 2' leg on the staples. 24" medium shakes. After going throught the rough irregular surface of theshake below they may not be pentrating the sheathing all that much.
I was a newbie on the crew in the early 80's when that house was but and I laid alot of those shakes.
My boss told me at that time that this roof would last for 100 years. LOL
I haven't used a pitchfork on shingles for 10 years. This tool has a 10" wide blade for doing the lifting. The teeth definitely get worn down.
Rich
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One of the guys on our crew--the one that was the absolute beast for work---used a tool like the one you showed( his was red-not that it makes a difference)anyhow----- most of us found that the AJC shingo worked waaaaay better.
the angle was different and so your movements were smaller,more controlled, more precise.
I use my shingo, sitting down, very little effort, get the leverage from simply shifting my body weight.
a lot of the guys wanted to save their pants-and worked standing up----all hunched over--and got tuckered out pretty fast.
i am 15 years older than the next oldest guy-and more than twice as old as a lot of them---but working methodically,SITTING down allways made me the fastest or second fastest in any crew I ever assembledBasically--one man clearing away for every man tearing off--it comes off faster than they can clear it away.
no matter what--it is still an unpleasant hour or so to start each morning, LOL
stephen
Edited 7/11/2008 10:37 am ET by Hazlett
stephen..... i'm not saying this job is difficult..
the only thing i said is to halve his normal stripping production times for the bid
it always goes back to my philosophy.... work like an optimist... bid like a pessimist
this is all about making money.... not trying to beat one's best production ratesMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think this may have been mentioned earlier, but with shakes we often take a course off horizontally using the 18" 30lb felt laid with each course to roll all the little pieces up. I guess that's what an earlier poster was saying when he mentioned rolling shakes. That also gets more of the fasteners than tearing off from the top down.http://grantlogan.net
Come on guys. If you're Festing, it's time to pay up. $85.00? Half of you have already wasted that much on beer and p0rn this week already.
You should treat this as a shake stapled 6/12!
The staples will give you the most grief. The shakes will break around each staple, leaving a sliver of wood trapped so that you cannot simply drive the staple in flush. And since the shake broke out around the staples, you will have three pieces of wood on average instead of one shake to handle.
Since this is 6/1/2 stepping on loose debris will be dangerous.
You will learn to hate stapled wood roofs.
We used a garden pitchfork and kept it rooling to th etruck, then went back with a 16ox curved claw to rip it clean of staples.
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Piffin
You will learn to hate stapled wood roofs.
More good news.
I have worked for this guy many times before, so It is not one of those jobs that you easily just walk away from.
Sounds like scaffolding needs to be erected.
Rich
Edited 7/11/2008 8:06 am ET by cargin
i have about 10 different kinds of shovels but none rally worked getting the staples out. i ripped off as much shake as i could and used the horse pliers to pull each staple. could not drive them in and bending them flat still left some of them up to punture the new felt. the ones that were rusted and broke tore my pants
Would grinding the staples down with a angle grinder work? Bet it would go fast.
that would work great but i dont think i would want red hot sparks flying into a dry attic
>i dont think i would want red hot sparks flying into a dry attic<I think this is a solid sheathing roof, so that may be an idea worth considering.http://grantlogan.net
Come on guys. If you're Festing, it's time to pay up. $85.00? Half of you have already wasted that much on beer and p0rn this week already.
I can smell the smoke already.
Looks like you and I can learn something ffrom this young guy named Steven Hazellet
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If the roof is on skip sheathing, I have used a leaf spring with the eyes cut off to roll the roof into round bundles.
catfish
Thanks for the input.
I have "rolled" wood "shingles" before.
Rich
All
I have an update for you on the stapled shakes.
We started the job last week. The shakes tear up fairly fast. We have found the best way to tear them up is from below with our normal tear off tools. I usually tear off 3 rows at a time. Alot of the staples stay in the plywood.
One guy tearing off and 2 guys cleaning up is our MO. We put the shakes in plastic garbage cans, and then take them to the chute. We have built a chute for each tear off area.
The staples pound in fairly well. The problem lies in bending them over as you walk over the area.
The house is surrounded by trees, so there is a tremendous amount of dirt and debris.
Our main problem is the dew in the morning. It's usually 10:30 in the morning before we can safely work up there. We are tarping roof sections the night before so that it will be dry in the morning.
Rich
In the first pic.... please tell me those are not tear off shoes.ML
MS
Yup that's what 2 of us wear. Merrell tennis shoes.
The other guy wears Red Wings. I wore Red wings for years but can't stand them now.
I usually wear shorts, sleeveless shirts and longer socks then my son in the pic.
Rich
Probably much more comfortable. I'd just be concerned about protecting my feet. Then again I've been known to drop lumber on my toes.ML
>>>>>>>>I'd just be concerned about protecting my feet.He's tearing roofing off - not packing 2x12s.I'm much more agile on roofs wearing sports shoes vs clodhoppers.View Image
I understand that, But I wear the wolverine work boots regardless if I'm digging ditches or setting cabinets. In fact I don't even own sport shoes.ML
re: the dew.. have you tried a leaf blower or a squirrel cage fan like they use for drying out wet floors?
john
A leaf blower is part of our standard equipment for all jobs. We love it for roof clean up.
It won't even dry off tarpaper much less wet shakes. We have tried. Yes it moves the water around, and it probably helps to speed up tar paper drying.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I was working for a farmer and his wife about 10 years ago. She brings up this leaf blower for roof clean up. We all laughed. After that job I bought my own. LOL
Rich
I need help estimating a shake tearoff myself.
This one's a barn. There's a single layer of cedar shakes and they are old as can be. They are laid over purlins at 24" O.C., which you can see at the overhangs. There is considerable height to the eaves and it's a 12 pitch. There is a total of 50 square, much of which you cannot see in the pic... this thing has a couple of additions and annexes.
Seems to me that just having somewhere to stand (?) is the issue. Getting up there in the first place is dangerous. This is not the kind of roof you can walk around on with your shovel, ripping shingles off. Seems to me I would need to set toeboards all the way up, and then work my way back down (I say "my" but it would be several guys), tearing off shingles just above the toeboard until it was time to hop down a level. Everything's gonna fall into the barn.
Any thoughts from wiser folk than I?
david
We have house scaffold brackets ( shaped like a triangle) that lag bolt to the side of the barn. These brackets have a u shaped bracket near the end that we can slide a 2x4 thru, usually to the ground. But this creates your handrail.
We build our own planks out of stress rated 2x4 standing upright. 16' long by 2' wide.
Then we cover with plywood.
Not time now I reply more later.
Rich
They are laid over purlins at 24" O.C.,
What's the exposure on the shakes. I can't imagine how they're installed with the split sheathing so wide.View Image
24" exposure. They's some bad sumbitches.
david
Most guys around here would strip the roof with 2x4s and then install channel drain or ag-steel. Not tear off anything.
Wrap the rakes and the eaves with outside corner.
Then you just use the 2x4 furring as your climbing surface.
Still nice to have a working platform at the bottom edge of the roof.
Rich
They want corrugated put back. With the condition this thing's in I feel like I'd have to strip it and take a look at those purlins. Nailing thru those shakes would be like nailing thru burnt toast, it just doesn't seem right.
Rich
I hear you.
Need to nail the furring to the rafters anyway. Bad shakes and questionable purlins make for a long nail thru questionable material.
Rich
How tall are the shakes? I've never seen 'em over 24".View Image
I didn't take any off or look very closely to see, but they are 24" exposure and they were very likely hand-split at or near the farm where this barn is. There were a LOT of small shake and shingle mills around these parts in the old days. I have bought a fair amount from a guy who still splits his own
seeyou
I remember seeing hand split shakes in the TV show Little House on the Prairie. I know it's TV. But Laura and the girls were in the loft and you could see the shakes. They looked like they were 4' long. This was one of the early shows, before they moved to Walnut Grove.
Rich
david
The lower roof looks like it has sheathing and wood shingles.
Here is a pic of us using the scaffolding brackets. You can sort of see them.
Rich
I'd pipe-scaffold each side, yeah, right up and over those lower roofs, too, to get me up to eaves level. It's a PITA but I have learned it's worth it in the long run.
I also usually strip from the bottom up 'cause that way I can pry up whole sections at once and toss 'em over the side. But that said, with just purlins and no deck and shakes that long I dunno how well that would work.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....