Hello all,
I first would like to say thank you all for the posts you have already done and what ever help you may be to me now.
First off I am new as a remodeling contractor I was an abatement contractor so I do have contracting experience just from another aspect.
I have a project going now that I have been working on for quite some time. The property I am working on is on the historical register. I have Restored the whole house full of windows. I am replacing the basement with an original style custom window. I have remodeled the master bath and remodeled/converted their mud room. All have come out very nicely but not so timely. I have had no plans except for drawings on graph paper from the decorator.
My dilemma is that there has been an upcoming kitchen project I have been really wanting a shot at. I was told the other evening from the owner that he is looking at working with contractors that the designer has been using for his designs. I explained to him that I was hoping for a shot at bidding the job but understand if he isn’t comfortable with me doing such a project. He said that was not the question but that he wanted to get the job done in a somewhat timely manor and that I have such a good I for fine detail and the is so much of that work to get done yet throughout the house that he would like me to continue on that stuff. I also have a rather large closet to remodel something like 10’x 14′ once again with no plans. I don’t know the dimensions of the kitchen but it is roughly a 70k+ project. it would really look nice in my limited portfolio.
I am looking for some suggestions on reproaching my customer to at least provide him with a bid to the job as that is all I have ever wanted for sure. I was hoping to have it handed to me but never expected it. I think many of you can understand my disappointment in this and I would love to hear your suggestions as I have learned a ton from many for you since I have been researching this forum for these past several weeks.
One more quick thing is the decorator has been acting as a silent sub so to speak and the HO would like to continue to use her as such. I see this as a danger zone to the HO as she is not license or insured as anything other than a decorator. Don’t get me wrong she is pretty sharp and enjoy working with this gal I just don’t think it is right for her to be taking on such a position.
Replies
Lack of plans will slow you down.
Kitchens need to be planed as much as possible because most is made off site with some "final" custom fitting. ie counter tops and molding.
I don't start demo in a kitchen until the replacement units arrive. Even with demo and wall changing I wait till its all there.
Ask for a layout so you can bid, if he is uneasy about it say you need the pricing practice.
(if your in luck the "new" guys will be a pain and you will look great)
It seems like it would be a good idea to continue doing the smaller renovations until you get up to a speed the owner is comfortable with. While a$70K kitchen would look good in the portfolio, a reference from a customer satisfied with your detail work would be preferable to a disgruntled one who had to live without a kitchen for too long.
I'd suggest that you do as the HO desires and continue with the projects you've been hired for.
Building a reputation for yourself takes time.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
You can't do them all, Jeb, but it can be a hard pill to swallow.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
"All have come out very nicely but not so timely"
Fix that and you will get the next kitchen from the next client. Your production rate obviously scares this client. The 70k kitchen might take you a year and he wants it in a week.
A good salesperson doesn't stop at the first no though. You needed to ask questions to determine what the objection to you doing the job was. You are entitled to ask that but you might not like the answer.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I would be inclined to be open and up front. Tell them that the desing that they are thinking of would make for some fabulous pictures for your portfolio. Assure them that it can be done in a timely fashion and that you would be willing to give them a price break on the labour considering all the work they have given you so far. Provided, of course, the designer is willing to accept full responsiblity for the design (measurements, etc.) in writing.
Also, assure them the other projects won't fall behind in progress as a result of you taking on the project. You would have to bring in additional help of course, but it would be worth it for the pictures.
Just one thing. Don't push too hard. It'll make you look desperate and you won't get it for sure. Be very casual and confident in your speaking. This will help the HO to feel comfortable in their decision.
Good Luck
Dave
I'd be careful about trying to underbid everyone to get the kitchen job. It's really not as important to your future as it might seem right now.
It sounds like you've already gained a lot from this job, both in experience and a reputation for quality. If you've also made a good living and some profit then it's probably wise to finish what's left and bow out graciously.
We all have to pull in our horns at times and let the person who's paying the bills make their own decisions, even if they conflict with our desires and opinions. Being a good team member on a big job is also a reputation worth having.
Jeb , Show the client jobs similar to this that you have been involved with to help lend credibility and show you have experience in this arena .
Not to sound mean but ,
If you have no history on jobs like this kitchen why should they hire you ?
You could draw a plan and create an original design and ask the client to please take a look at your plan to show your knowledgeable and qualified to produce a quality job .
When you can show something different than the others and introduce unique and efficient elements that can capture the interest and the job .
go for it , good luck
dusty
Thank you all for your input. Let me state I do not have a prior kitchen project to present to them. I also have been over the whole being cheap guy. When I gave them the proposal to restore the windows I was told I wasn't the cheapest. I replied that cheaper isn't always better and the owner agreed that it usually isn't. He did say that he believed I could build him a great looking kitchen but that he wanted to keep the other work going as well so hiring more help is probably going to be my option here. I would be happy to bid the project and not get it as I have been there many times in the past as an abatement contractor. I'd be happy to just gc bthe project if I can sell that. I believe there is still time to do so as the plans for the kitchen are still not ready. The plans were supposed to have been done around thanksgiving and he is worried about me getting this project done in a timely matter. Go figure.
I also wanted to note that I had not read some of the other current threads going here that are discussing just what I am talking about here. Please keep responding and I will keep following.
Thanks again,
Jeff
I've been doing kitchens and architectural millwork for 25 years. I started out building kitchens as a cabinetmaker, then installing for 10 years. I started out doing small kitchens and gradually worked up to to the high-end market. Fortunately I was able to learn the world of kitchens at someone else's expense. For the last 5 years I've been self-employed doing design, sales and installation of kitchens only.
My advice is not to jump into higher-end kitchens. Unlike other facets of architectural millwork, kitchens have to work well. They are 3-dimensional, functioning pieces of expensive furniture fused with a bewildering array of appliances, electrical fixtures, plumbing and mechanical penetrations, that has to be installed on a very tight deadline. Throw in an interior designer getting paid by the hour (and your probably not) and maybe an architect (also billing hourly) and one or two clients who have lived in a renovation for a while, and you can easily find yourself in the eye of a perfect storm. Unless of course you are completely on top of your game and able to control all parties.
Or maybe you'd do awesome. Best of luck
Scruff
One more quick thing is the decorator has been acting as a silent sub so to speak and the HO would like to continue to use her as such. I see this as a danger zone to the HO as she is not license or insured as anything other than a decorator. Don't get me wrong she is pretty sharp and enjoy working with this gal I just don't think it is right for her to be taking on such a position.
The HO is happy with her work, sounds like she's been there longer than you have. Trying blowing her out the door and you'll be gone instead.
Stick with what you have, learn to move faster. Takes time to build a rep, if your work is good you'll get there.
Almost every house has a kitchen, there'll be another chance to show your stuff.
Joe H