Need some thoughts on fascia materials .
Ok, getting the roof replaced in the next few months and have decided that the 28 year old cardboard, I mean MDF, fascia has got to go. It is looking kind of rough and I have always hated the fact that the sides that have gutters were put on an angle, requiring shims, wedges etc to properly install gutters. So the plan is to remove the cardboard, cut the truss tails to a tru vertical, then install new fascia prior to the roof replacement.
I am having a hard time deciding on what material to use. There is good old plain pine 1x’s .. requiring priming and painting. Then we have preprimed finger jointed pine, and for about 10% more there is PVC Tuf Board … has to be painted, but will supposedly never rot etc. Or, last but not least, I could go back with MDF, it did last this long without a whole lot of attention. I did some internet searching and found some prefinished PVC material that comes in colors and does not need painting, but have not been able to find it locally yet.
I pulled off a 23′ section at the back of the house today and it looks like I have my work cut out for me. What an uneven mess with stacks of shingle pieces used as shims etc. Also found that they stuffed the insulation all the way out to the walls, blocking off any ventilation to the attic, making the vents in the soffit totally useless. I am going to see if I can get the plastic insulation spacers stuffed in without having to get in the attic, its probably 150 deg up there this time of year ! Here are some pics of the mess. Also included a pic of the front of the house so you can see what it lookes like befeore demo:
Any thoughts would be appreciated
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
Replies
That's kind of interesting the way the tails are built on the trusses... Seen it before, but not a lot.
Anyway, check out Miratec: http://www.dealerslumber.com/miratec.html I'm not saying it's the best product out there, but you gotta match your expenditure on methods/materials with the project... Anyway, Miratec is essentially treated hardboard which sounds kinda bad but I think it's miles ahead of what was available 10 years ago. It comes with a 25 yr warranty and I believe it is treated to be water and bug resistant. With 16' lengths, an attractive price, very uniform 'boards', and no problem with warping or checking it seems like a pretty good product to me. Very easy to work with. Only down side to working with it is it makes a heck of a lot of dust when you rip it - pretty much like MDF - and it's a little heavy. I think a similar product is GP Prime.
Looking at your pics, I'd look into Hardi soffit too. Any of these products pretty much take 2 people to install though...
Matt,
Its pretty sorry construction now that I have it exposed ... if you look close you will see that the "tails" dont even meet the ledger board at the house wall. Most of them are about an inch away from it :( The roof sheathing is 3/8" plywood. I really cannot complain too uch. We bought the house new in 1978 and I have only painted the soffits and fascia once since then ! The roof is actually in pretty good shape, but the shingles are starting to crack and I dont want to wait another year. I got a few estimates on the fascia and soffits but was not real happy with what I was hearing. They all wanted to just wrap them with vinyl, one guy was not even going to remove the old soffit, just cover over it. I have decided I can do that part myself, but I just dont have the energy to do the roof. It took me about an hour to remove the one section and peel the shingles back far enough to cut everything. In the AM I am going to snap a line on the sheathing and cut it then use the sawzall to cut the rafter tails straight. I figure once I figure out what I want to put back on, I should be able to do a 20 - 30 ft section each evening. The rakes will be real easy, just pull off the old junk and on with the new.Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
Someone touched on this above - In the new homes I build we always use a 2x subfascia. This may not be necessary, however if you select a manufactured fascia product, especially like Azek or anything else that doesn't have much rigidity, you will need a subfascia. The other thing about using a subfascia is that it gives a good nail base for the outboard edge of your soffit material. Matt
true, that didn't occour to me to mention because we always use subfascia.
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Bill, you have 3/8 ply on 2' centers? That stuff isn't safe to walk on if you weigh more than a bird.
I wouldn't even think of trying to cram vent chutes in there. It's been working fine the way it is for how many years? Don't fix what ain't broken.
Joe H
We've been happy with the PrimeTrim (tempered hardboard) fascia we put on about a dozen years ago. I did go overboard back priming it, etc, though.
Azek is a little on the spendy side (I'm trimming out a walk-on deck right now and 18' 1 X 12's are $76 apiece!).
But the stuff is paintable and weatherproof (so far, anyway....I've got about 4 years with it). I use it mostly for exterior brickmold and over arched windows (it will follow a curve and take a set if you warm it up and are careful).
With the wood available these days, some of this plastic stuff is looking better all the time.
That being said, if you're willing to spend the money, you can still get clear VG Doug fir trim wood, but it's precious!
Mr. Bill, I'm here in DC not far away. When I worked in Florida square cut rafters were more common than not. We called the fascia, the barge board, and after we ran our trusses we ran a sub-barge of 2X lumber. This board can be wrapped with aluminum coil stock. You can work a plumb cut the same way.
You could use Azek, but its expensive and rumored to suffer from expansion and contraction problems. We use it regularly though, and have never had a call back.
There is Hardie plank for fascia and Hardi board for soffit. I just got done using this to run 330' feet of it for soffit on a building here in the city. We adjusted the nose on the paslode framer and shot it, cut it with a special blade. It worked well. http://www.jameshardie.com/
Also some fellow carpenters I know (friendly competition) did a job with CMi's MiraTEC across the street from where I'm working and after my initial skepticism and warning to read and follow installation instructions, I researched the product on the web and they make some impressive claims. The job ended up looking good too. There only at the paint stage now, so I don't know about its longevity but according to the website its got, I believe, if my memory serves me, a 25 year guarantee for rot and bug damage. That's impressive. I still think with modern engineered products proper installation techniques are key http://www.extira.com/pageBuild.asp?PageID=A_ideas_m&UserID=B
Ryan [email protected]
Edited 6/19/2005 7:34 am ET by quicksilver
Edited 6/19/2005 7:45 am ET by quicksilver
Regardless of the fascia you use (I'm using fj pre-primed cedar on mine), one way to save yourself a lot of work is to use half round gutters. Berger Bros makes a hanger for non-plum fascias. Don't know if HR would work architecturally, but might be worth a look.
Hey Mister Sushi, you forgot to cook my fish.
"Am I dead or alive? What's this? Linoleum? I must be in hell." -The Salton Sea
GP Primetrim
When I told one of my carpenters we were going to use it for something similar, he questioned its longevity. I convinced him with the following information -
When I first used it back about '94, before deciding, I got a sample and immersed it in water over the weekend. The expansion at the very edge could be measured with a micrometeer but was not visible to the naked eye.
I took a couple pieces of off cuts from that fuirs job and put them out behind the shop in the wetlands there. Last summer, I used one of them for a sign. It was still fine. The other oen, I picked up last week and took it to the job to let every one marcel at. The jobs we have used them on have faired well.
I have heard that other jobs in my area with the product have not faired so well. My painter BIL has offered an opinion on which survive and which do not. When I install, I predrill and use SS ring shank trim nails, hand set. The ones that have had early failure have been installed wiotha nail gun, creating a mushroom or volcanoe aroudn the nail, that then has to be shaved, sanded, filled and then painted again. basically, poor nailing practice destroyus the integrity of the product. There is a reason that it comes with instructions, but alas, most carpenters throw instruction sheets away, or only read them after thwe fact to find out what went wrong...
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Consider this alternative to cutting back the deck and trimming the tails.
Snap a level line on the wall. Pull a level stringline at the bottom outside edge of the tail that is furthest out. Cut new 2x6 tails with the correct pitch cut on the end and apply them to align with the two level lines. Short pieces of 2x6 can be acquired cheap or free since it can be cull material at this length.
To hold the insulation down for insertion of baffles, consider using a scrap piece of steel plate or wrap a heavy 1x12 with plastic so you can easily slide it along the top of the insulation. The weight will hold the insulation out of the way while you use both hands to insert the baffle.
Hardi plank would be a good choice for fascia.
Good luck.
Ray,
Thats a thought but the other "problem" that I have always disliked is the fact that the sheathing did not extend all the way to the fascia on most of the house. In some places its a good 1 1/2" short :( Figured I could take care of two birds with one stone but your idea is interesting. The other thing is that the overhang is not even. On one end of the part in the pictures it is 22 inches, on the other end it's 25.
Keep the ideas coming, I will decide on the material by this evening.Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
>> I will decide on the material by this evening <<
Isn't availability a big part of the equation? I'm guessing your lumber yards aren't open on Sunday... I guess Home Depot, but that narrows your choices considerably... Matt
Matt,
Availability is important, but I will go wherever I need. Price is secondary to the overall value of the material I choose. Home Depot had the preprimed fingerjoint pine and the TufBoard. Lowes had nothing. I will go to 84 and the one local supplier that might be called a lumber yard on Monday. Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
What is TufBoard?
Matt
Matt,
TufBoard is a pvc material. About 10% more than the preprimed fingerjointed pine. Seems to be very rigid, still needs to be painted, the color is an off white, almost light grey. Supposed to be impervious to water, bugs etc. 1x8x 16' was $28 at HD.Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
Wow - that's pretty pricey. Cheaper than Azek - if memory serves me.
Matt
Re availability, when we redid our house I worked out how many sticks of PrimeTrim I needed (forget whether they were 12 or 16 foot). I needed something like nineteen sticks, and they came in bundles of six. I talked to the yard and asked if I couldn't get individual pieces, but they insisted it was special order and I had to order by bundle.So ordered 24 and they delivered 21. Called them up and asked what the hey and they said that they were short and would send out the other three when they came in (which they did, about a week later).Really frosted me.
Small yard eh?Primetrinm is sixteen footersThey sold some of yours to someone else, using you to develope a market..it happens
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Yeah, this was one of those yards where they thought they were doing you a favor by dealing with you. Menards and HD came to town and ate their lunch. They're still in business, but even smaller now, even though construction is going on gangbusters in the area.
Ok,
Went and looked at some Azek today at 84. $50 for a 1x8x18' A little pricy, but if I save the price of paint and the time, it seems to be worth the difference. The 18' lengths make for some waste, all of the rake boards on the house are just shy of 16'. So what has the experience been with this material ? Looks nice, does not need painting, installs like wood. Seems plenty strong to span the 24" oc trusses without a problem.
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md