In the attached phot I removed the crumbling concrete from the well wall and the rail just lifted right off. Wasn’t mounted at all, just set into the 2″ thick concrete cap, which I’m sure is why it (the cap) broke up the way it did. You can see in the first photo where the post stops at the bottom of the cap. All four of the posts are like that.
I set the rail aside and formed a new cap without the rail embeded in it. What I need to do now is mount the rail so it’s plenty sturdy. I’m thinking a collar and flange that I can bolt down. Anyone know where I might find such a thing?
The posts measure about 5/8″ by 1-1/4″ in thickness.
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Edited 5/18/2008 11:34 am by Ted W.
Replies
My local True Value used to carry 1-1/6" and 1-1/4" square flanges for those painted steel railings. Installed using four wedge/sleeve anchors per flange. $5 a pop, I think, though it's been a while since I installed any.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Thanks Nick,
There is a large and well stocked True Value near by. I'll check it out, see if they have something like it. --------------------------------------------------------
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I have seen a lot of these in Chicago. Most of them were installed into the concrete as you described. All of the other ones I have seen were installed with "L" brackets bolted to the concrete. I would use brackets with Tapcons and paint to match. Be sure to use the 1/8' - 3/16" thick brackets or angle iron or it will look like a "handyman special".
"It is what it is."
Thanks for the suggestion, Mike.
I'm afraid anything short of a flange with a sleeve will look like a handyman special in this situation. Granted, it's just a basement well, but they walk right past it (thuse look at it) every time they go out to the patio. They're not fussy or nit-pickety kind of customer, but they want things to look right. I don't think angle brackets will acheive a finished look no matter how I install them.
Also, the begining post near the top of the stairs has no lateral support, thus it's basically a 3' long lever. I need something really ridgid, if at least for that one. My inclination is to use flanges for all four posts, for both sturdiness and consistent look. --------------------------------------------------------
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Why not drill out some larger holes and set the rail in anchoring cement or epoxy?
With the top cap being fresh it should be easy to run a core type bit through the cap. Once the top holes are made you could hammer drill into the old concrete to get them a little deeper.
I've used Hilti's HIT RE 500 for setting rails. It's kinda pink at first but after a while it gets dirty and you don't see it. I suppose someone could sprinkle some dry cement or sand on top to make it blend in.
"Perfect is the enemy of Good." Morrison
If you've got a good welding shop, why not have them fit the rail with some bases you can then anchor to the concrete. Should give you the stability you need.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
That's one thing I'm considering. I could either have them weld flanges right to the posts or have some made up with sleeves. But ideally I thought maybe I could find an off the shelf solution.--------------------------------------------------------
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Here, Hayes Iron Works normally welds the mounting plate to the bottom of the post, a clean look.
On rails that have been bashed by snowplowing I've had them insert a sleeve that has the bracket attached and then welded to the posts.
Won't stop the plow, but might help with a large snow hod.
The bracket usually is oriented in line with the force you wish to withstand.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I think the reason the old concrete cap broke apart was due to the the post being set in it. It's like a 3' long pry bar in only 2" or so of concrete. If the post ends were longer that might be a solution, but the way it is I'm thinking a surface mounted flange would be the right solution. Worst case then is that the bolts might pull loose if somebody body slams the rail.--------------------------------------------------------
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Ditto that
just had two rails set on a brick stair I'm doing a barrel arch porch. Doctor sees several geriatric pts. inb his home...needed something sturdy. I called a welding shop I'd had do work for me in the past and hooked the two up. He called when they were done, very satisfied. They core drill a 2" hole in the brick stair and the landing, set the rail, ( not sure how deep, I'd guess around 6") and pour an epoxy into the hole, flush w brick. Looks as neat as could be, and solid as a rock. The epoxy certainly won't let any water in, although your walls look like they need some attention in the sealing/patching dept. Should be a simple manuever to remove flanges and extend the bottom of the legs...
Bing
Core drilling and setting them 6" or deeper into the ledge would be ideal, but not really practical. The ends of the posts are maybe 6" below the bottom rail, so not enough to do that without somehow extending them. Maybe that's what I should do, get a welder to extend the post about 10" so I could set them in epoxy.
"although your walls look like they need some attention in the sealing/patching dept.."
I think you're looking at the concrete capping, which I've replaced since taking that photo. Also, I cleaned up the inside walls with muriatic acid and will be parging them with bonding mortar.--------------------------------------------------------
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My friend is a second generation wrought iron manufacture. they drill at least 6" deep. Rocking damages the masonry every time. They never put a flange or flat plate onto masonry railings. Its only used on wood or similar materials.Fire escapes have their own regs.
Find whoever does precast steps in your area, and they can do the welding to add flanges with covers over them that you can then mount onto the concrete with anchors. I've done this before myself. Not very expensive and better than any makeshift solution.