Been asking allot of electrical lately, have another one brought to my attention I never much noticed until somebody asked me the reason for.
NEMA 5 T-shaped neutral outlets, looked it up and it’s purpose is from my understanding is to be the lower voltage equivalent of higher rated twist locks. I’ve never seen a plug that utilizes the NEMA 5 “T” neutral. Is it just extra blade surface to hold the plug in place or is there actually a mechanical spring or something in there? What do you know of that does use these and any particular reasoning when used?
Replies
You mean like this?
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It's a NEMA 5-20R, which is a standard 20 amp 120vac receptacle. A NEMA 5-15r is the typical 15 amp receptacle you see in most applications.
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Exactly but what's the point? Just harder to pull out, or greater contact surface?
Don't quote me on it cause it'll start a fire storm of ratings, code, and numbers like the other thread, but I'd swear I've seen the T blade on multiple variations of receptacles and the identical variations without it. Is this a newer item or just a convenience feature?
What renosteinke said. The prong on 20 amp plugs is sideways, but the receptacle has a vertical slot as well to accept a regular 15 amp plug.
Edited 2/2/2009 6:41 pm by Stuart
NC,The "point" of the extra slot in the 20 amp receptacle is so that 20 amp plugs will fit. The 20 Amp plugs have one blade vertical and the other horizontal. This is done so that they cannot be plugged into standard 15 Amp receptacles.
Bill, can you tell me why I ALWAYS try to plug 2 prong cords in the wrong way first?
Maybe not always, but at least 90% of the time......
Joe H
That is because you are a backward conservative that only stopped dragging your knuckles 6 months ago..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
needing spectacles, maybe?
Just go with your gut and then reverse the plug.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
It is cause the electrician turned every other two prong recptical upside down on you. (g)
That miserable SOB !
He even got my cords !
Joe H
Says we can do that on the back of our journeymans card,<g>
Still working on my card, got a year and a half to go, plus test. They are fixing to pass a law in my jurisdiction whereas all jobsites are required a card-carrying journeyman for the electrical work. I honestly hope they do, because card-carrying journeyman are in short supply and the demand will be huge. The pay scale will go up to where it should be, and not just any knucklehead off of the street "who's had twenty years experience" will be able to run jobs.
>>They are fixing to pass a law in my jurisdiction whereas all jobsites are required a card-carrying journeyman for the electrical work.
We already have it. Journeyman and helpers on any job and must be under the direct supervision of a Master.
A master can no longer pull a permit. They kicked it up a level.You have to have a Contractors license to pull the permit. You can hold a Masters license and a Contractors license, but for the contractors license you have to show proof of insurance each year at renewal. Each level has to have continueing education credits each year to be eligable for renewal.
State get their fee for everything.
I don't really see a level higher than Master in the electrical field. (OK, maybe owner, but he already knew that when he hired you).
Edited 2/9/2009 7:03 pm ET by arcflash
To be a "contractor" in Florida (the only ones who can pull permits other than the homeowner) you need to demonstrate trade knowledge plus knowledge of the law and knowledge of business. Too many guys were great tradesmen but ran their business so poorly they went broke and left the customer hanging. They also are required to carry insurance and post a performance bond.
I'm not sure where KY got the pattern for thier statute, but it sounds very similar to FL. Insurance and permit fees seem to be the drivers here. Maybe Gunner knows more about it. He has held a Masters license here a lot longer than I have.
Up until the regulatory changes here a lot of builders used unlicensed people to wire houses. Most of the time they were guys still in the apprentice stage of training working for someone that held a Masters license. The statute changes now require a Journeyman level on the job, and they must be under the direct supervision of a Master, who may also hold a Contractors license or work for someone that does. The important thing is that someone at the upper end of the hiarchy has to show proof of insurance and be responsible for the permiting process. Get caught working outside the perameters of the law and the fines are pretty stiff. Something like $1K per day per individual. That will put a small electrical contractor out of business in short order.
There was a kid (5 YO) that was electrocuted in Louisville when he contacted a metal garage door. I am thinking 4-7 years ago.A licensed electrician/contractor used a helper wire the garage. This was a new detached garage and the electrician contracted with the garage builder.There where at least 3 mistakes.There was a 3-way switch on the house and the garage to control a garage light. the guy did not have 3 conductor cable on the truck so used 2 conductor with the ground being used as one of the conductors.Tapped power off of an existing outdoor receptacle that did not have a ground.Don't remember the 3 rd problem or if it was every called out.But there has to either failure or misswiring to make the door hot.It might have been that the "ground" in the 3-way ended up being connected to the ground in the receptacle.Best I could figure out looking that the KY license website the electrician/contractor never was disciplined.But there where civil suites..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
3d problem was no GFCI
No.A gfci might have prevented the accident, but the lack of one did not cause it.*And the receptacle for the garage door opener did needed to be GFCI protected..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Why did the receptacle for the opener need to be GFCI? Is everything in a garage GFCI protected?
I would figure you wouldnt want the opener GFI'd because of random tripping on the receptacle. Plus the recepticle is normally 8 feet off the ground. Not the most convienient recp in the garage.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
The code basically says that receptacles in garage and unfinished basements need to be GFCI protected.But the it list exceptions.Until the 2008 code the receptacles for appliances that are not normally moved (don't remember the exact wording, but that is the intent) such as refigerators and sump pumps where excepted. As for those in a garage that are not easly reached. The 2008 version removed those exceptions.There is no realy logical reason that I can think of for doing that..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Thanks for explaining but I would argue with an inspector that made me GFCI a refrigerator. I've seen too many GFI's trip for no reason. My old house was a good example. Occasionally i'd wake up to a warm fridge for no apparent reason.
As far as the garage door i'd site the same thing. I want my garage door to open ALWAYS. It would be luck that the stupid gfi would trip on a 100 deg day just when dad shut the door on his kids hiding in the garage.
I'm really going to hate the dumbing down of society.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
>>Plus the recepticle is normally 8 feet off the ground. Not the most convienient recp in the garage.
Solution to that issue is make the closer receptical downstream on a GFCI protected circuite.
When I wired my garage I gfi'd everything except the garage door. As long as there is power I always want that door to be able to open.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
... but the receptacle he tapped into needed a GFCI.
Now (2008 NEC) all receptacles in the garage will need the GFCI
".. but the receptacle he tapped into needed a GFCI."But there is no requirement that go off the load side..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
This "tombstone" is probably a factor in why NFPA does now require all 120v 15/20a receptacles in a garage must be GFCI and since AFCIs also offer 30ma GF protection virtually all 15/20a receptacles have some protection.
What do you think about the "tamper proof" addition to the 08 code?
It is simply what happens when NEMA dominates the code making process. They make these things and then they get the state to sell them at the point of a gun. Sweet for them.
I think that if all these safety things are that great they should be sold to the customer, not imposed on them. In the case of the AFCI they actually did the beta testing in the customer's home and those who were forced to buy the early ones got defective and/or obsolete units at a premium price. Are the manufacturers going to replace all the units that don't meet the CURRENT code?
The jury is still out on the TP receptacles. It is hard to believe that they can hit a price point and still make a mechanism that will work reliably for a couple decades.
I remember the incident. I think the resulting law was name for the child that died.
One of the many I don't do residential repair work is because the last guy in there always assumes the liability of every one that went before him, be they pro or hack.
I have friends that are independent contractors and that is one of thier biggest gripes. It is hard to bill fore straightening up someone else's shiddy work. Particulary when it some buddy or relative of the client.
I think the point is that anything requiring 20amps will need to be plugged into a 20 circuit/receptacle. I guess by making a 20 specific plug, its the companies best attempt to get you to submit.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Nema 5 is a 2 pole, with grounding 125 v device.
But it comes in a bunch of different flavors (current ratings).
That T-slot is only on the 5-20R.
That is for compatability for 5-15P (plugs).
There is a 5-20P. But I have never seen on residential equipment or even woodworking equipment, many which should have them.
I have heard that a few pieces of commercial equipment come with them.
http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/web/outlet/quailplug.html
The 6 series (250 2 pole ground) is the same.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I have a big window shaker (AC) with a 5-20 plug.
There are no plugs with 'T' shaped prongs; rather, the female end is designed to either take the 'vertical' 15 amp plug blade, or the 'horizontal' 20 amp blade.