I hope there is a plumber out there that can shed some light on this … we just had our bathroom remodeled. We have very nice Jado fixtures in the tub/shower. The problem is, when you first turn the taps on, for the tub or the shower, the water comes out rusty then runs clean. The plumber doesn’t know what the problem is but the tile guy thinks it’s because the plumber used steel nipples and that is causing any water that stands in the pipes to get rusty. He thinks the plumber should have used copper or brass nipples. Help!
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Replies
I think the tile guy is right. Only good thing is that the rust sometimes abates after a while if your water is hard.
Can't the parts be replaced?
rusty water out of tub
I to replaced my bath tub faucet, spicket and shower head . The same problem happened. Rust for a short time then clear water. Thinking that the problem may just be a new faucet set up that needs to clear itself out. Reading this I signed up to respond.
I'm a contractor, and what I did, with out thinking of the rust result was I installed a black pipe nipple at the point where the spout needs to be extended out the perfect distance to clear the wall tile and sit flush. I forget, 4 or 5" pipe into the seat mounted behind the wall and the spout screws into that. That was where the rust came from on mine. Easy correction, unscrew the nipple and replace it with a non rusting nipple. Be sure to use nylon tape to insure no leaks.
sounds right or just a galvanize pipe instead of a black pipe.
Black iron piping in a potable water line is a code violation. Galvanized is still legal in some areas, but most only allow it in short supply nipples. Stainless steel, brass, and chrome plated brass are all correct niplles.
My question for ckib would be; is this the only fixture with the rust discharge? If so, call the plumber back, he has a problem to correct.
If the rust appears at other fixtures, you are proabaly erroding old deposits form you main, before your new house shut off. You may have to renew the line from you meter or well on in to correct the problem. The plumber should have warned you that this could happen when he renewed your lines, but even if he didn't, he is not responsible for conditions outside the work he was contracted to do.
Dave
Dave,
About 9 months ago we had all the exposed copper pipes in our basement replaced. There were no problems with the water anywhere after this installation. We did this because we were plagued with pin hole leaks. We now have an acid neutralizing system installed to correct the high acid level in our well water. The acid neutralizing system was installed after I noticed the rusty discharge from the tub/shower, so I know this system has nothing to do with the rusty water discharge.
We just had both bathrooms in our house gutted, everything new, including the pipes running from the basement up to the downstairs bathroom and then up to the second floor bathroom sink and toilet. There are separate supply pipes dedicated to the tub/shower from the basement. There is NO problem with the water in the downstairs bathroom. There is also NO problem with the water in the sink and toilet in the upstairs bathroom. The rusty water only comes out of the tub spout and shower. And, as I explained before, it only comes out rusty for the first 10 seconds or so, then runs clear.
What could it be? I've had so many problems with this plumber that I'd like to know what I'm talking about before contacting him.
Thanks.
Cynthia
Wrap a rag around the shower head pipe and use channellocks to remove it from the fitting inside the wall. Do the same with tube spout.
Look at what type of fitting or nipple he used in the wall. You can also stick your finger, or a screw driver with a rag on it, in there and swab the inside of the fitting. If either one comes out with a layer of rusty gunk, you have found the problem.
Your tile man is most likely right. Sounds like your troublesome plumber used the wrong type of material somewhere in the supply side on the tub/shower piping.
Fixing the tub filler is straight forward because the supply nipple usually sticks out past the tile surface, and can be easily removed. That would be the one I took out , and replaced first. Keep it to show the plumber.
The shower supply fitting is likely a female ninety fitting burried behind the tile and wall. Getting it out without taking out tile is possible if you have access to the back side of the wall, and are willing to demo some of it to get to the pipes.
If the tub filler nipple proves your plumber screwed up, make the shower supply fitting his project. If the tile must be removed to get to the fitting, put the plumber in touch with the tile man. They can coordinate and plan thier repairs and schedules, so it doesn't drag out over more than a day or two.
BTW the plumber eats the cost of the repair, if he put in the wrong fittings.
Dave
Galvanized is correct black wrong.
This should definitely be either a brass or stainless nipple, NOT a galvanized nipple, otherwise the problem will be back shortly. The fixture is brass, and the water sitting in there will produce a galvanic cell which will rust away the black pipe OR galvanized nipple on an accelerated schedule.
You are not reading my message correctly. Whe are talking about a time frame, I didn't say that you should use galvanized, but it is legal where I live (MD.) I did not say anything about black iron, except that it was non-code where I live. Electrolysis dosen'thappen that fast
You're right, you didn't mention black pipe- I merely pointed it out for the benefit of the original poster.
Electrolysis certainly can "happen that fast"- with a direct connection between brass/copper and galvanized in a conductive fresh water, particularly an acidic water, you can say goodbye to the zinc on the inside of that galvanized nipple in a period of weeks since you'll literally have a 1.5 volt battery driving the corrosion in that case. And since most people make galvanized nipples by threading galvanized pipe, the pipe ends themselves are often bare steel- you could see rust out of them even before you've lost all the zinc off the ID of the nipple.
Regardless what's "code" in your area, just say no to direct connections between galvanized pipe and copper pipe or brass valves, fixtures etc. You might be able to get away with it for heavily treated cooling water or the like, but not for fresh water. If such a transition is necessary, you must take measures to reduce the galvanic effect by using a stainless or non-conductive component between the two.
did the plumber tie into old gal pipes ? if so my guess would be the improved flow is creating tubulence braking off rust accumulation on inside old gal pipe , it should decrease then stop
The supply pipes are brand new copper pipes, running up from the basement. All new pipes in the basement too cuz we were plagued with pin hole leakes, so we replaced everything. The bathroom has been in operation for 3 months, with no change/improvement.
3 to 1 odds the tile guy is correct.
could your water main from the street or well is still steel, the improved flow would cause the rust to break loose. I have a hard time believing that a 4" steel nipple could cause the ammount of rust you are talking about. In any event the pipe should be changed to brass to prevent galvanitic problems.
james
What the tile guy said. Probably just the nipple feeding the tub spout. Easy enough to replace.
Thanks to everyone who posted. Plumber hasn't been over yet ...
You are probably right; but who should be resposible??
It was common practice to use galvanized tub spout nipples years ago. They would not show that problem for many years. If you are getting rust after a short time, it could be that the plumber installed a black iron nipple; thats a code violation where I live!
Sounds like the Tile Guy is right. Here's why.
Many times when plumbers complete their rough-in plumbing, they install galv. nipples and caps which serve to temp. terminate the line, are low cost and expendable if marred during tile installation
Dollars to donuts, the Tile Guy noticed this but didn't say anything because he considered it to be SOP and would be addressed during final fixture/ trim installation. Appearently the nipples were forgoten to be galv and only the caps were removed. Other than forgetting about it, it may be an issue of he could not get at it easily, and since it was not a part of the pressure side of the plumbing, the plumber disregarded it. Very little cause for alarm in the short term but definitely an inconvienience.
The plumber, or you the HO, can remove the nipples using a tool called an Easy-out, available at a plumbing supply house or even HD/ Lowes. Pick one up, Take off the shower head and tub spout. Insert th EO to remove the nipple. Take the nipple back to where you got the EO and get the same length corresponding nipple in brass.
Pick up some teflon tape too. Re-install the nipple, but this time connect the nipple to the spout or head first.
F
Man, I love this message board! The NEW plumber just left. He took off the shower head and tub spout. Sure enough, all rusty gunk in the steel nipples. He just left to buy the correct brass parts and will be back soon to replace them. Check out the photo ...
The plumber doesn't think he can remove that nipple with the easy out, so he is going to cut the pipe and re-do.
Thanks again to all who contributed to my education on this problem.
As long as he is careful and doesn't damage the threads of the remaining pipe, cutting should be ok. I erred in refering to theextraction tool as an Easy-Out. The proper name is Nipple Extractor. They/ Sets are readily available - even at Home depot for about $15. So much easier to use that rather than cutting which is very tedious.Great to read that it is getting resolved and you no longer have to take henna showers. HA!F
The picture shows what looks like a galvanized wing ell fitting. Probably left in when the bathroom was replumbed. In this case it would be a thread/thread ell with the mounting wings on each side.
Can't remove that without cutting the pipe since it is a female fitting, and is attached to a cross brace or other framing member with screws or nails through the wings.
Dave
HA! I see what you "think" you are seeing - or is it me? Take another look. I see a nipple coming out of the wall and pointing to the left. I believe you see a female thread pointing to the right. Pretty wild!Kinda like the picture of the ugly woman's face and the pretty woman's figure. It depends how you look at it. Are you familiar with that drawing?F
Thanks again to all who posted. I have another, smaller issue, and also hoping someone may know what could be causing this problem ... see photo. There is a gold color stain appearing around the bottom of the polished chrome hot and cold water taps in the downstairs bathroom. I can't get it out with any cleaner I've tried. What could this be? There is no staining in the upstairs bathroom sink (both bathrooms just redone, polished chrome Jado fixtures used in both bathrooms). Could this also have to do with unlike metals? Help!
Have you diassembled the hot water valve and removed the bell escutcheon to see if it is worse underneath? That will tell you/ us a lot.Be very careful when removing it, so you do not scratch it with your screwdriver or wrench. DO NOT use a pair of pliers. They will definitely mar the fixture.F
That's wild! I saw it as a female fitting with photo taken from left side, but after what you said, I looked again and saw it as male fitting with photo taken from right side (and after I saw it that way, had a hard time seeing it the other way again). But I think it's a male because it looks like it is coming out of another fitting--there's a bare crescent of silver above and to right.
At first I was going to tell you it was too early in the morning to be drinking, but it's nearly one here and you are right!
TA-DAA!F
Need ckib to tell us what it is.
I am trapped in a visual loop, based on installing shower heads. I have never seen a chrome shower head nipple that wasn't male threaded on both ends. One end mates into the winged female ell inside or just beneath the wall/ tile surface. The other end recieves the female fitting on the shower head.
Sometime experience can be a hindrance. DW has to remind me all the time, that just because I have done something one way for years, doesn't mean there aren't other ways. Hard for me to get "out of the box."
Dave
I took lots of pix while the work was being done, and probably have a good shot of the plumbing rough in. When I get home, I will send a photo and you guys can figure out what that part is. Oh, the photo is of the tub spout, not the shower head. Actually, what we have is a fixed shower head (no rusty water was coming out of this fixture) and a tub spout and a hand shower. The rusty water was coming out of the tub spout and the hand shower. These have both been fixed, thanks to you all! The NEW plumber (won't call the old guys back) replaced both nipples (I think he said they were both of that variety) and we now have clear water all around.
Sorry I haven't followed up on the staining in the downstairs bath that I posted about. I can't for the life of me figure out how to remove the tap levers just by looking at it! I need to download the installation instructions from the Jado site ... when I've taken off the levers, I will take a photo and report on what I found.
Thanks!
Looks like you are right.
Dave
Here are the photos I promised. Don't know if they will shed any more light. Ceck out the grid paper hanging on the pipe ... that's my sketch for the plumbing rough in.
-- ckib
I see a non-brass nipple at the handheld shower location in the rough-in pic. Any rust there? Was that replaced also?About that shower head. Do you like it? I am always looking for a better showerhead.F
Yes, the rust was at the hand-held shower and also at the tub spout. Both have been replaced. :)
I love the shower head. It's a Kohler Fairfax.
http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/detail.jsp?frm=1&module=Custom+Showering&item=8607602&prod_num=12008
I was originally going to try one of the fancy pan style shower heads that are mounted from the ceiling, but lucky for me, I tried my sister's first. I didn't like it at all. To shampoo your hair, soap up, shave your legs, basically anything other than rinsing off, you have to stand completely out of the stream since the water is coming straight down, so 90% of the time you feel cold and all that hot water is going down the drain without even touching your body!
Thanks!I found it on homeclick.com for $46. I'll place an order Monday.F
F,
Just one thing ... since the water is dispersed over a large area, the Fairfax produces a soft stream of water, not a powerful one. The hand shower has a strong flow, with multi-function (massage,etc.) and works great for rinsing. It's a perfect combination. I'm not sure you'd want a Fairfax all by itself.
This might be due to similar volume feed with a reduced head/ face size on the hh. Have you removed the flow restricter in the showerhead? Gotta have flow.F
Could you advise me on how to do that?
It is usually a plastic component in the neck of the shower head, just beyond the threaded portion. I may be green, white or black. Sometimes it is a rubber O-ring. If it is not there, Kohler may have reduced the feed hole size instead. If there is not a plastic piece visible and the feed hole is less than 1/4", this is the case. It can be drilled out to enlarge though.Take a look and tell me what you see.F
Rusty nipples? Rusty nipples? Hey, this is a family website!
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
I'll borrow another member's line: "I didn't do it." In this case it really wasn't me. I got my mouth washed out with soap for saying "that word" when I was three years old (and couldn't even pronounce it right, but apparently everyone understood what I was saying) and have been very careful ever since. Other words I use freely though--just listen when I hit my thumb with a hammer!
:)
I was actually trying to post that to "everyone", but I think when I scrolled down to hit "post", it scrolled to your name.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi