We are full service residential design/build contractors, and we’ve recently started doing most of our own roofing. To meet budgets we are also doing more with aluminum and less with copper. We have two crews that can each break into two smaller crews, which happens more now that we’re doing smaller jobs than the new homes we were doing.
We need a brake.
After perusing the ABC Supply catalog and searching the archives here, this is the one we’re thinking of getting:
http://www.van-mark.com/Brakes/mark2/TrimMaster.html
Seems basic, solid, and we can start without any accessories other than this one:
http://www.van-mark.com/accessories/TrimCutter/TrimCutter.html
For portability we probably won’t even get legs, just use sawhorses.
Opinions?
Replies
Only have used the tapco, however buddy says the vanmark can give you a lot nicer and tighter hem, and I wouldn't buy without cutting wheel or carriage for coil
Dan, which model Tapco have you used? The Tapco Pro 19 is on the short list.
I have spent very little time with a brake (unless 2x12 spruce and woodworking clamps counts) but our foreman who needs this next week said not to bother with the coil holder, at least for now. Do you think that's a dumb decision? We're trying to get out of this for under $3K total if possible.
Is a cutting wheel the same as the slitter Mike Smith mentioned?
It was the Tapco pro model as best I can remember. It did everything that I needed to do, with no complaints. I believe the slitters are the same, the one I used rolled down the length of brake and made perfect rips, without stretching metal. Looks very similiar to the one on picture of Van Mark.
The coil holder was nice as it held the coil stock, and all you had to do was slide it out as needed, also allowed you to cut the material using the slitter at what ever lengths you need. Sure you could cut with sheers or continual swipes with razor knife, but why not be more efficient and accurate to boot.
Have to believe with economy as it is probably some half decent brakes are for sale used. Problem is are they worn out or not, I dont have enough expertise to tell, so I would more than likely buy new and get to bending.
our van mark is from 1980
we put a new nose on it
that hand slitter is difficult to use...we have one but don't like it.... buy youself a crank slitter
http://www.van-mark.com/Slitters/TAS/TrimAslitter.html
go to the link you used and click on slitters
the one in the upper right is the one we use
we buy 2x50 colored coil stock.... cut it 10' lengths for our brake.... the run it thru the crank slitter.... 2".....4"..... use a lot of 8"
you'll get your money back on the first roll of coil you run thru the slitter
the blue hand slitter that rides on the nose loves to jam... so it doesn't make long accurate slitsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 8/20/2009 3:10 pm ET by MikeSmith
Mike, a thread from a few years ago where you said that you had the 1060 was one of the main reasons I thought it might be the best choice. There are two models, the M1060 Mark I, and the TM 1060 Mark II "Trimmaster."
It looks like the Mark I is the old model, maybe more like yours, but the Mark II has "many added improvements" which they don't divulge.
If we're trying to save money up front (with the intention of adding accessories in the future), do you think the "scorer" would work better than the hand slitter:
http://www.van-mark.com/accessories/QuickScore/QuickScore.html
The 24" crank slitter is $989.99; you really think it's worth it? We're starting a 40 square roof and I ordered 8 rolls of 24" coil stock. Sounds like you'll say yes ;-)
mike... we have a coil handler too... and we put the "VanMark Trimcutter" on the coil handler.... it has the same nose configuration as the brake so the acessories work on it too
now picture a typical use... say you want to make colored step flash.... we oversize ours so we'd slit a bunch of 8" x 10 strips
if yo want to slit that on your brake you cut off 10' insert it in the jaws , get it parallel to the nose.. slide it out so the trimmer will cut of 8"... trim it .... now readjust your stock.... pull it out so the 8" are sticking out... then trim it
this assumes your throat can handle a 24" coil with 16" in and 8" out... the minimum amount you can trim ( slit ) is a functio of how deep your throat is... or you have to reverse the stock and clamp your cut-off and let the big part hang out
with the crank style trim-a-slitter, you set the cut-off wheels , cut off a 10' piece of stock crank it thru and you have (3) 8" x 10' pieces
if your want 4" pieces.. set your wheels to 4 & 8
run it thru , you'll have two 4" pieces and one 16".... run it thru again... two more 4" pieces and an 8" piece
run it thru again... two more 4" pieces
slitting is a breeze instead of a chore
we make a lot of "break-flash" the apron piece that goes under the vertical sidewall and covers the top course of roof shingles intersecting the wall.... we make all of ours from a pattern we developed that uses 8" strips
with 24" coil , you tend to make things that are divisible into 24" so you don't have too much waste
to me... the trim-a-slitter ( crank style ) and the brake are indispensible for siding, roofing and door/window installationMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
So with a crank slitter you can get by with a 14" throat instead of a 19" throat. Makes sense to me. Thank you for the advice.
Mike:
It has been 20 years but here is my experience. I have owned both the Tapco and the Van mark. I personally like the tapco. I owned everything from the Windy up to the ProIII. I used my roofers Tapco 19 2 years ago and loved it.
I believe it is best to buy the brake brand your men are familiar with. I also believe you will not go wrong with either brand, and any model except the Windy.
If you shop online the prices are all over the place. I would price it online then negotiate locally!!
Dave
Thanks Dave--
Our guys have been renting a variety of brakes. I tried to get one of the foreman to come in and pick out what he wants. He's too busy. Plus this way, if anything goes wrong it's not his fault!
It will be used by a lot of different guys so as long as it works and is tough I don't think we'll have a problem.
Did you have a slitter or make do without? Do you think the 19" is worth it or is 14" adequate?
We'll stay away from the Windy in any case!
Mike.. ours is a fairly heavy duty VanMark... 10'6 with six arms (frames ) the depth is 14"
we have it bolted to two posts in our garage.... never leaves the the shop
had one nose rebuild about 3 years ago so it could take all the new accessories... i think the new nose and vinyl cost about $250
the brake was about $800 new in 1980Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I would buy the 19", but I am prejudiced. I have used the slitter and the piece that you put the coil in to keep it from going all over. I like both.
Mike
For years I used a Van mark that you locked from the side. It did the job, but was hell on my palm and wrist locking it.I cut everything with a knife while it was locked in the brake. Adequate but time consuming. I can never throw a tool out before it is worn out, so I suffered until last year.
I used my friends Tapco 19", and knew I had to get one. I located a 14" one on Craigs list, with the coil holder, and cutter at a substantial discount. I've bent about 25 boxes of coil on it, and the cutter is a big improvement over the sheetrock knife approach.
I originally got the 14" because the 19" was too heavy to carry around by myself,and that was a mistake. I have since made a set of wheels that I use to move it around, so I could move a 19" just as easily.
I have used my friends power slitter, and it sliced up a lot of copper quick, but right now It would be hard to justify.
My vote is for a 19" Tapco, because that is what I am familiar with.
Good luck
Greg In Connecticut
as a side note, I was in your lovely state last weekend at Eagle Lake, just as hot and humid as home, but a lot more laid back.I enjoyed the rest.
Mike ,
Do you read Uncle Henry's magazine ?
Theres an almost new Tapco listed in there in Rumford if you have any interest in checking it out .
Walter
Walter, I'm a big fan of Uncle Henry's; if I was buying this for myself I'd be all over it. Looks like a good deal, $800.
I'm afraid it would be a false economy the way our company is set up though. Better to have a local dealer to handle problems, etc. Thanks for the tip though.
I haven't used the newer van mark, the older one that I have(circa 1990) bends a hem a thousand times nicer than my buddy's brand new tapco.
It's not too late, it's never too late.
If you're gonna spend $3500, you can get a good used shop brake for that kind of money. I find it easier to bring the work to the brake indoors with nice work tables rather than stand in a drizzling rain trying to lay something out on a sheet of plywood on some sawhorses. And a shop brake can do a lot of things a portable can't.
Or you can do like Walter does and bolt your shop brake to a trailer.
The good portable brakes are pretty heavy - not really that portable.
The 14" throat is pretty limiting. I'd go for the 19" without question. No throat is obviously better.
Those nose attachment slitters may work OK on coil stock, but they leave a wavy mess with copper. The stand alone slitter is a fairly nice tool - I've worn out two - but the knives dull easy with frequent use.
I roofed for nearly 10 years with only a portable brake and did some amazing stuff with it. But if I'd gone ahead and got the right tools to start with, I'd have gotten 15 years worth of work done in those 1st 10 years.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I agree with you completely. I have a tapco 19, most always I bring the work to the brake, not the brake to the job.
I like the Tapco OK , but it's no shop break, if I wanted to upgrade, where do I look /what brand should I look at for a shop brake?
>>>>>>>>where do I look /what brand should I look at for a shop brake?<<<<<<Look as local as possible - they're heavy. Most big cities have a used machinery dealer. I bought mine from a dealer in Cincinnati. It's a '68 model I think. It had a new bending blade on it - I had to wait for them to install it when I picked it up - and was in near perfect condition otherwise. I paid $2300 for it 10 years ago. I took a quick look online and I'd guess $2800 would bring it home now. There's usually a good selection on Ebay or just do a search for used manual brakes. Buying from a dealer will more likely assure it's not sprung and you'll get it well tuned. Mine's a 10 footer. If you can live with an 8 footer, the prices decrease by almost half. Mine's a Driess & Krumpf (Chicago) brake. Pexto, Tennsmith, Diacro, are all good brands. There are other good brands I'm sure. I just haven't touched them. I used to have an 8' National shop brake that was not a lot heavier than a 10' Tapco Max. It went out of tune often, but we took it to job sites on occasion. I'd look for a brand that's still in business. Roper-Whitney has bought out Pexto and Diacro and still makes some product with the old names on them and supports a lt of the old machines. D&K and Tennsmith are still in business. I have a Barth shear. Barth went out of business about 40 years ago, but all the breakable parts are available from other machines. There's no obsolescence built into it. It will never wear out.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Grant ,
If you were buying a good slitter today -- what brand and model would you buy ??
Mine is getting on in years and weighs a ton . I'd like to upgrade this Fall or next Spring .
Thanks again , Walter
Walter - I've had two 3' wide VanMarks. The 1st one got plum tuckered out, but it deserved it's retirement. The blade wheels were shot - sharpened too many times and I had 2 sets - and the rest of the mechanism was getting sloppy. I sold it when I bought an 8' Pexto stomp shear. Then I started having trouble getting 8' copper, so I got my current brake and a new 3' VanMark. When that slitter started getting tired (after 150K-200K lbs of copper), I bought my Barth gap shear. I've never used a Tapco slitter, although I'm a fan of Tapco products. Dale has a POS Chinese slitter. I don't know of any other brands. I think the VanMark is a fine machine, but just not capable of the work load I present it. It also takes up too much space in my tiny shop. Takes 20'+ to rip a sheet.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Thanks Grant ,
I've got an old one thats getting tired . I'll have to look at some good equiptment places - a real good one in Mass .
Walter
walter.... mine is a manual crank handle 24"
i've never tried to slit copper with it... do you think it would?
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike ,
I'm not sure if thats rated for 16 oz copper ,I've never used a crank model .
The builder in my thread " non SIP timber frame " is using the cutter on his new 10' 6" Aluma Pole brake to cut 16 oz lead coated copper . It was working quite well when I was there the other day .
Walter
Grant, good point to go with the best brake we can get. Our current shop is barely big enough for the woodworking; I think this brake will live in one of our overcrowded tool trailers and get hauled from job to job.
As long as it's at least as good as the ones the guys have been renting, we'll be ahead of the game. Our crews are almost always at least two guys so moving the thing alone shouldn't be much of an issue.
I have a Tapco Pro 10'-6" (19" throat) and a Van Mark 4'-6" Mark 1 (14" throat).
The 19" throat is a lot heavier than the 14"... and a bit more useful.
The Van Mark bends nicer than the Tapco. I'll have to look at making some adjustments.
The Tapco has a better integrated coil holder- at least I think so.
The new Van Mark Unilegs are great. Tons better than sawhorses. Much quicker setup than the Tapco stand.
$.02