I am considering retiring from my current job(building engineer) and starting a new career in cabinet/furniture work, but I am concerned about how to price my work so as not to starve to death, but not to rip people off. I know this is a huge open ended question, but are there books,videos,workshops available to help guys like myself who want to pursue a self employment career? All help will be greatly appreciated.
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Where do you live?
Reason being, Marc Adams School of Woodwork has classes on running a woodworking business and some other similar concepts. http://www.marcadams.com
The school is in Indiana and it's definetly worth the trip.
Also, what's your specialty? What shop tools do you already have? Finally, do you need the money from work or do you have another way to sustain you and your signigicant others for a while?
Joe
I live in west Texas, but will probably move to the Dallas area within a year and start the business there. I will not need to borrow any money but will need to be able to put food on the table. My wife will most likely have a job of some kind, but only 2 of us in the house. All of my kids are grown and gone. I have 2 -10" cabinet saws,8" joiner,18"planer,14" bandsaw,drill press,lathe, am looking for an overhead drum sander, I have a combo belt-disc sander 12" compound mitre saw,dedicated mortiser and an assortment of small power tools. Don't know if I have a specialty as you say,but I mostly build furniture( for my family). I may need to find a nitch in the area to work towards. Ask me any additional questions and I will respond. Thanks----WW57
It depends on where you live and the condition of the houses in your area. I live in a very established, older town. But not too old, mostly 70's and 80's around here. All of these homes need small upgrades to be modernized. I've been successful building cabinets around fireplaces, window seats, specialty upgrades to existing cases, and even a bunch of trim/crown work.
You sound like you can do it, you have all your ducks in a row already with the tools and the family life. You just need some customers. Keep your advertising simple at first, go for word of mouth with family and neighbors. If you do a good job on one, the next job might come right behind it.
I hate crown but I can do it better and faster than a DIY'er, so I've made some money at it. This has opened many doors to bigger projects.
Donate some pieces at local fundraisers; church, school, etc. I've had a few customers from this avenue.
My wife has also been my biggest salesperson (and she works cheap). She's always talking me up to her friends and coworkers. Get some cards made and give your wife a stack.
The lower end market has just about dried up around here, in Central Texas. High-end custom stuff is the way to to.
You need a gimmick or a specialty that would make you work stand out from others. Mixing different species or new door treatments. You could always be a sub for an established shop and get the production they can't handle.
San Antonio area and west around Kerrville is booming with high end subdivisions so you might want to check out that area before you decide on Dallas.
Austin is pretty much glutted with custom furniture and cab shops. They go under all the time and sell their tools.
Look at doing cabs for large flat-screens and complete home-theatre systems. I'd like to do some of those if I was younger.
I'd love to just make cabinets too but i've found it very hard to compete with factory built prices.
Latest example: customer wanted a 42" vanity. A comparable factory made piece (48" wouldnt work) would be about $350-$400. I charged $1300 and was bummed with what I made. I had about $500 in parts.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
I get cabinet guys calling all the time looking for work. Its a tough market for them.
To repeat what many consultants have said about this type of switch, don't quit your day job just yet.
There is no better way to screw up your chances of making this work, than to jump in cold turkey. Life gets interesting if you lose your regular source of income, spend cash on new machines and shop space and not have enough clients to make it until you at least break even.
If you are passionate about this kind of work, start doing it on the side and get your feet wet, make important contacts, get the business stuff figured out, figure out the pricing for your niche, and start getting your name out.
Best of luck
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I agree.If someone is going to jump into the business full time, they should expect a solid year with no income.
am considering retiring from my current job(building engineer)
So,... does that mean a pension and ss as your basic income?
If so you have a little cushion to work your way into a comfortable small ww business.
I didn't have that buffer when I left the lab and started in theremodeling business, nor did I have the business accume to know how to run it. Took me 3 years to fail(with the help of the Carter adminstration), but not totaly. I made enough contacts and built a good enough name to easily land a job with established contractors and but my small interprize on a part time footing. It has stayed that way for over twenty years now.
Maybe make a visit over at Knots, the FWW forum, and ask your question. Lots of those guys are part timers, or just small shop business. they will have plenty of advice for you.
seven or eight more years of my day job, and I'll follow your lead,.....and I'm already over 61.
There is a guy not far from me who builds cabinets.
My wife wanted a pantry cabinet so I went to him with a rough drawing/sketch.
It was fairly simple, 6' tall, 27" wide, two 12" full extension drawers on bottom (all dovetailed), and doors on top with adjustable shelves. It was in hickory with a clear finish.
It was just under $500 dollars, when my wife said that it was to much I about choked. I then explained to her the hardware, wood, and finish materials were over half of the cost. Nevermind the shop space, equipment, tools, and labor.
I could probably make good money just selling and delivering his work, since he is Amish and doesn't have a phone or truck he wouldn't mind a bit.
If you live anywhere around guys like this it would not be a good business to be in unless you sold and delivered his work.
"If you live anywhere around guys like this it would not be a good business to be in unless you sold and delivered his work. "I would add his custom work to our list of services. We'd double the price of that piece and offer it at $1,000 or so.
same reason I have "plumbing and electrical" listed on my biz card.
I'm not licensed in either trade ...
but my plumber and electrician are!
if I can make a buck on a phone call all the better.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
If I can ever locate a dependable electrician and plumber, I'll list that too LOL!
I used to have 2 of each ... plus HVAC.
my favorite electrician for staf after a back surgery ...
lost a good one.
still have the back up ... just not the same.
I use most of the guys I met while working as an employee for a design / build firm.
they has some pretty high standards, ran thru subs left and right.
I got to know the guys as friends .. we all worked for the same common enemy.
Now ... I hire them and we still work together.
the design / build firm went thru 10 yrs of subs ...
I was smart enough to cherry pick the best.
I can refer "my guys" with 100% confidence.
they're all nice and honest ... and they've all worked the highest of high end.
nothing out there they can't do.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
It might be useful for you to go to work for a custom cabinet shop first. Check out their business model.
If they are doing well, make a template for your own business.
Matt Garcia 1986-2008 22 yo Fairfield City Council Member, shot 09/01/08 RIP
I was in a hardwood place and the guy was saying that you could tell the pro woodworkers by their vehicles. The amateurs drive spiffy SUV's etc, while the pro cabinet makers generally need a jump.
I currently do what you are looking to start. One of the best things I did was to introduce myself to a few interior designers. They are typicaly looking for one of a kind pieces or certain size pieces. The few I work for now amount to a large portion of the business. The best part is that they do all of the selling to the client, telling them that they absolutley need the piece that you are going to build or the whole design will be flawed.
Tim
"I am concerned about how to price my work so as not to starve to death, but not to rip people off."
As you can see from the previous responses, very few cabinet makers "rip people off". They're typically the ones that don't have anything left at the end of the month.
That's not that say that you cannot make money out there, but I think there are two big obstacles you will face.
1) Factories- you can make a couple hundred cabinets so much more cheaply than you can make one. Between cheap materials, less-skilled labor, and efficient processes, you will likely only be able to complete on the custom/high end.
2) There are a lot of people who like to work in a shop and build cabinets or other projects. My guess is the the big draw for you is not the money you can make but the enjoyment you believe you will have. Unfortunately, there are many other people who feel the same way and you will typically find someone who is willing to work for less just so they can continue their professional hobby.
No one gets in to sewer drain cleaning because they love the work- it's almost always about the money. Therefore, anyone who is that line of work will typically do OK because their customers cannot find anyone else willing to do it for $20/hr.
Either way, good luck!
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Go to the True32 website and snoop around.
Bob Buckley is the guru who is behind it, and has run a successful small cabinetmaking op for going on 20 years. He sells a book that is quite worthwhile, and his biz offers training, software packages, and machinery, supplies, and hardware.
He only builds and installs frameless cabinetry, and makes no furniture.
An excerpt from the True32 link on a package offered called "coaching:"
Coaching on topics like The 32mm System, Flow Manufacturing, Theory of Constraints (TOC), TOC Accounting, Lean, KANBAN, TAKT time, TAKT time Scheduling, TAKT time management, effective estimating, general business setup and management, organizational structure, organizational tools, software, methods and techniques, software optimization, computer file structure management, website setup and management, etc. Sessions are conducted utilizing GoToMeeting, and typically range from 1 to 2.5 hours. Call toll free at 1.866.793.6420 for details
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Edited 9/6/2008 4:50 pm ET by Gene_Davis