I would like to build a new home and act as my own general contractor. I need to approach the bank with a preliminary figure.
I really do not want to go out and get individual bids on every aspect of the house. Is there a generic formula to use to estimate the cost of a new home per sq. ft.?
Use these assembly techniques when installing crown risers and molding to minimize visible gaps and nail holes.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
Nope.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
at least he didn't ask how much it would cost.
Better be careful, your going to get frenchy all wound up again.:)
You say you want to act as the general contractor but you don't want to do the work a general conytractor has to do? ;-)
The best you can do is build the house install the heating system, plumbing, electrical, roof, siding, foundation, drywall, flooring, paint, doors / doorknobs, stairs built, carpeting, lighting, sewage and all that after framing sheathing and a hundred other things and keep every receipt and total every penny then divide the cost by how many sq foot of the house and that's your cost per sq ft. oh don't forget back deck front steps landscape and cost of land . Or do it the easy way Hire a contractor get firm cost for it to be built and don't change anything after its agreed and built. or there will be extra cost. If you dont want to hire a contractor then build it yourself dont forget a red house cost more then a blue one and white homes cost even less. good luck
Edited 3/29/2009 8:18 pm ET by dogboy
Is there a generic part of the US your building in? Building a generic house?
You are doing yourself no favors by guestimating your costs to give to the bank. If you're going to the bank I suppose you have a set of prints on hand. Start figuring from the ground, up, permits, access costs, excavating, foundation, porta potty, etc. until you reach the roof and the mechanicals. There is no secret formula other than giving detailed specs to subs so they can get you a detailed bid.
and please don't ask for a specific number unless you've really got thick skin.
if you build it 80ft long and only 3 ft wide you'll have only about 160sf allowing for the thickness of the finished walls...
you cost per SF might be a bit higher on this structure than if you built a 21.5ft x 21.5ft square box... while still having the same amount of materials in the walls... you will have aprox 450sf...
everything affects cost per sf.... even between 2 equal builders building the same structure
btw i can build nice finished space for for under $50... that others claim to cost $150sf... and I'm sure someone can build it for less than me...
but no rule of thumb... not on these hands anyway
P:)
But are you making a "profit"?
I just stated what i can build for.... profit comes when you are able to sell...
which is an "unknown"
p :)
and I'm sure someone can build it for less than me
heh, heh:
My price is $37 sq ft, without having my own pawn shop even <G>
For OP reference, bare bones, < $1 sq ft for a cabin (FHB, Nov, 1990) .
You can get somebody to make a wild guess, but it is no more accurate than trying to buy a car by the pound.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
trying to buy a car by the pound
Are you telling me you DONT buy your cars by the pound?? I try to stay under 25 cents per pound, often under 10 cents.
That way (at least until last year) when they get scrapped, there is still a profit <G>
I can answer that easy. And real honestly.
With the lazy, half-azzed approach you suggest, it will cost you three times as much as having full, detailed plans, copies for each sub bidding, and full bids from each before turning a stone. And take three times as long.
You'll have to adjust everyting on the fly, redo things two, three or even four times over cause you didn't think of something or someone flaked on you. Flaking is big in this type of construction style. That means the sub or worker simply doesn't show. Hunting, surfing, screwing the dog. It doesn't matter. He won't be there. And explantions are worthless. You'll fire one and get someone even worse.
But because you don't have your stuff together, even the good subs shaft you. They figger you gotta learn somehow and their kids need shoes this time of year. Therefore, they'll get to you after spring break. Well, maybe Memorial Day. Next year.
But unless you're stupidly rich, you won't get that far. Your banker wasn't hatched from under a rock yesterday. He knows someone who is over his head and will toy with you until you give in. Or go elsewhere. Or pay ungodly high fees.
I'm real honest. Been there, done that.
But the best is to come! Try to sell that POS after cobbling it together. Try to say something nice about your local building department afterwards. Try to keep your marriage together during.
This plan of yours is gonna cost dearly. In more ways than one.
Why play games? They have these hurdles for a reason. Do your work or pay someone to do it for you.
Exhibit A:
Edited 3/29/2009 10:17 pm by peteshlagor
bikbrk
....if you are going to be the GC, then you will have to solicit bids , and do material take-offs and pricing for evrything in the house..
so..... the one thing you don't want to do is the one thing you have to do
there is no short cut formula
after you get all done, you can add up the total living space and divide it ito your total cost and tell us what it cost you
Probably not the best question to ask, and could actually be the worst question to ask here..but I'll help.I am building my first house, acting as own GC so to speak. Literally doing the majority of work myself and hiring subs, begging friends, conscriping passersby as well. I'll add a couple thing but mostly it has been covered already.Where? What? How many sf? How nice? How fast? Are you connected in any way to the construction industry? What are existing houses selling for in your area? Yours will cost much more than those.What do you want to spend? Triple that amount and triple the time frame, then tell that to your banker. If he still is interested, get started and if you come in under budget and ahead of schedule then everyone will be happy and it might be the first time it has ever been done.
It probably helps to see this from the banker's point of view.I built my own home in about '97. I did build it for the amt I planned in the construction loan, tho it took me a few months longer, requiring a re-write. The bank I dealt with is a local and they do try to help make money available to people here more easily than most would.At about the same time I was building none, three other people in this town were DIY builders operating on funding from the same bank.
All three left town with the projects partially finished, unliveable, and stuck the bank with the mess. It was years before things were finalized, the properties turned, and lived in.This bank is now much more strict about lending to DIYs building their own.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks guys. I just printed this entire thread to take to the individual who asked me this exact question and than wanted to argue about it when I told him essentially the same thing all of you just said.
He certainly wouldn't believe me--and I doubt he'll believe all of you--but thanks for backing me up. Now I'll ask him to back his position up :-)
If you are asking him for money, don't bother wasting time refuting his position, which is, prove to me that it can be built for X dollars. That is your job if you want to be a GC.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Nope, just a friendly argument over a couple of beers in the shop. As you can imagine if he has a nickel in his pocket--one thing for sure--it's staying there.
At times there is no better feeling than putting a buddy in his place :-)
why didn't you present it that way in your original post?
Because the question was presented to me "that way". No pretenses, just honest from the gut answers.
Sorry if I offended you, too.
Not offended, but in the OP you stated it was you that going to the bank as your own GC and not wanting to complete the due dilignece of getting real bids from real subs. At the least it was misleading.
your OP, emphasis mine:
I would like to build a new home and act as my own general contractor. I need to approach the bank with a preliminary figure.
I really do not want to go out and get individual bids on every aspect of the house. Is there a generic formula to use to estimate the cost of a new home per sq. ft.?
"Because the question was presented to me "that way". No pretenses, just honest from the gut answers.Sorry if I offended you, too."It is not the question that is offensive, but the way you misrepresented yourself. as I read your last reply to me I was thinking, WTF, I must have the wrong thread or got confused somehow, this ain't the same guy who started this thread...All because you did use pretense, by pretending a different scenario. It makes one wonder if you would recognize honest from the gut if it hit you.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You all are great. Of course, it didn't sound like the same guy who started the thread because it wasn't my question. I presented the question as it was presented to me.
I looked back on this whole discussion and realized that if I would have put, "I was asked..." in front of my original post and if everyone would have put, "Tell your friend...", IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE EXACT SAME DISCUSSION!
Thanks for the personal attacks. It really has been an eye opener.
Thanks for the personal attacks. It really has been an eye opener.
EDIT: TIME FOR A HIJACK?
Post a conservative political position in woodshed and see what you get hit with by the , say what, 90% of uberliberal woodshed denizens, you will find you have not even opened your eyes yet ... a highly respected structural truss expert on this board who is actually pretty much 'middle of the road' politically has his intelligence questioned every time he posts something there that is not condescending to the liberals, who seldom post anything of technical worth (am I ever in for it now?) .
I dont even participate there but once inawhile, not worth the time, but can be fun at times ......<G> or >:(***splat.
Maybe once 'bama really succeeds in turning the economy or really botches it and has negative ratings, will see how the worms turns either way on that agenda..??
Edited 3/30/2009 3:53 pm ET by junkhound
no personal attack whatsoever. It was an observation of the fact that you make an impression on people in many ways and here it is mostly by the way you use words. You've admitted that you made a mistake in that and that you see the result, so why assume that the correction was a personal attack?NBow that we have that all straightened out, where were we....oh yeah, bankers POVIf your buddy is really intersted in all this, he needs to understand the banks POV. For every loan app like this they get, they probably have a handfull of liveable re-possessed houses that are non-performing right now they would rather sell him at a lower price per sq ft than he can build this one for.
And they darn sure don't want him to get half finished and have more tied up in materials and labour than the place will be worth in the current market and have him skip on them. So they need solid numbers to work with.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The easiest way I've seen work as far as the banks go is for the applicant to have a very significant amount of money tied up in the project before the DIY HO approaches them. For example, the land owned outright and the project at or quickly approaching dried-in with the HOs own money. The construction loan nearly fell out of the bank's pocket. In this case the HO showed his sincerity in having so much of his own personal money tied into the project.
Lot's of people go to banks expecting them to carry all the risk and I don't think that's going to happen very easily anymore.
I had the land paid for, the road in, and the well drilled and a shop built and paid for with power in place first. Assessment now counts the improved land excepting the house as a third of the value. That makes for a fair 'deposit'
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>That makes for a fair 'deposit'<
yep, the HO needs to show some postive intention, some kind of vested interest and carry a big portion of the risk to make it easier.
Have had some very good experiences with BB&T (recent epxerinces BTW) so if the OPs friend is in an area where BB&T operates that might be a good place to go. I've also kept up a relationship with the loan officers over the years so I'm not a complete stranger to them either.
Back to the original post for a minute:
I'm a banker. Somebody is sitting at my desk and asking for $200k to finish building a house. He wants to do it himself. He has never built a house before, but he THINKS he can do it.
I am NOT going to loan him any money unless he brings in a competent builder to do the job for him.
After all, if it's MY money I'm lending to him, then he's building MY house.(until it's paid for)
Go to some other bank and waste THEIR time.
Give me a break. Why not have your "friend" set up an acct. and post the question?
MikeInsert initially amusing but ultimately annoying catch phrase here.
$4372.17 sq ft
You beat me to it!>G<
$4372.17 sq ft>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Serious reply:
really do not want to go out and get individual bids on every aspect of the house
1. Sounds from a later post you never intended to, just throwing out a 'red herring'?
2. I'd not want to go out and try to get bids beforehand either. Many here grew up with parents/grandparents who built and intrinsically knew/know the time and $$ involved, thus minimal need for bids, offer a job for xx$ or take it on yourself (and buy more tools<G>).
3. Profile - fill it out so folks know what area of the country you (or your 'friend') live in, as that is an impact. Also age. If you are 25 YO vs. 60 YO. IF 60 YO and you ask that type question, we can put you on ignore. If you are 18 YO, ask specific questions v. generalities and you will get all the help you ever want.
I'm sorry you feel that a friendly question is offensive to be asked on this site. I have read many back and forth.
To all of you that feel as if I wasted your time, I apologize. While it was a friendly argument, the question posed to me is serious in our business. Many potential customers--with the advent of the "big box stores" and the "you can do it, we can help" slogans--do feel that no project is too big to tackle and that GC's are a waste of time. This is NOT my opinion, nor am I painting with a wide brush.
Junkhound, I'm sorry you would like to put me on ignore, but that is your decision. Sorry I wasted your time.
off the subject... but who better to toss this out to...
I just built a single leaf 8ft tall 13ft long steel gate... the "main post" on the hinge side is 4" pipe 11ft tall with a turn buckle comeing down about 9ft out... to the top rail of the gate... it has 5/8 solid steel pickets (most of my designs us this material for no other reason than i have a electric over hyd punch that will punch this size hole) the gate is framed in 2x2 sq tube 3/16 wall...
anyway it looks nice... but it is heavy... like in need my bobcat to move it heavy...
it will hang on a 6x6 1/4" wall steel tube post set 5ft into the ground... the concrete that sets the post will continue across the drive under the closed gate to form an apron (i'll stamp this to look like cobbles) I'll place this 3ft wide apron 6" thick which should add some mass....
now the question... I'm hinge'n this puppy on the bottom on a 3500lb trailer spindle & hub... I got worried about the down force weight on the bearings in the hub... so i dug around and found a 3.5" thrust bearing with a 2" ID to carry the weight (i hope)
the top pivot will be a dodge saddle bearing with a 1.25 ID that will be on an adjustable mount so i can dail it in for what i hope is finger tip balance operation...
the thrust bearing is my sticking point... needed? would the bearings in the hub carry the downward force without it? I've used automotive/trailer hubs spindles & bearings for gates before and they work well forever... but never one this weight... I'm think'n over 600lbs and with the leverage of 13ft of gate for side force... I think i'm good with the 3500lb set up... it's the downward force thats the concern...
I'm ask'n you... cause... I knew you'd know...
thanks
P :)
Sounds like you got lotsa margin with the bearing you have.
The door bearings on Minuteman Launch Control Facility doors are a couple of only about 6 in dia tapered rollers IIRC, and that 12 ton or more door is about 9 ft by 9 foot by 2 ft thick reinforced concrete. Look at your dump truck, carries what, 6 tons at 60 mph, only a couple of 4" tapered rollers. Static load with little rotation mean ultra long bearing life.
Only case I know of fer sure where tapered rollers failed were the original Saturn launch transporter crawler bearings in the 60's, dont recall the size but the bearings were crushed in the first test and nasa went to 'old fashioned' sleeve bearings to support the megamillion pounds (forget the numbers, probably on internet somewhere)
Remember rotational inertia when you design the latch mechanism and stop.
I got a job at NASA stennis base where they test fire the rocket motors. Contractor and I got into it a couple weeks ago. "HOW CAN YOU BE SO STUPID, ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, oh sorry" I had to remember where I was. rocket base.
was at the cape a while back and got up close to the transporter & man isthat sucker ever huge
when it transports the rocket to the pad it sinks in the ground a few inches even though they dug down 10' to build the road
the saturn missile on display is also a eye opener
the sheer power at launch time makes you feel its the end of the world coming
This time last year I would do it for $225 sf
Now I would pay you $25 sf, including materials
:)
Irrespective of how you put the question to the forum, The proper answer to your friend includes the following:
1) If you are expecting a lender to finance this, he won't without a cost estimate that has basis in factual estimates.
2) If you don't have the skill to provide suppliers with plans, specs and material lists; how will they give you estimates that meet the condition 1). And how will you know whether their estimates your requirements.
3) What do you expect to do; sit down and have a general conversation with them regarding your desires.
If you can't do those things you need a GC or an Archetect to set out the nescessary requirements and evaluate the estimates.
Making fun of your friends is being negative. Be helpful and point out realities or tell him to plan to finance it out of his own pocket and be prepared for big overruns.