Ok, new electric service going in. Electric company requires the owner to install meter base (freestanding, not on buildign). The base is to be five or so feet from the transformer.
I do not know what this entails. If this is a DIY project I will do the research, perhaps with help from you, to find out what is entailed. IS this a DIY project?
Lighting up an exterior isn't just about ambiance— it's also about code compliance. Here is what the code says about safety and efficiency when it comes to outdoor lighting.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
Is this for your temp. power?
if so, your electrician should have some temp boxes available.
Meter
Temp service? Yes and No.
The meter will permanently be set on a post at teh transform and not on the house. It sounds like you can have an outlet or two at this meter and it makes sense that this can be your temporary power for the buiding project.
As for my electrician? That is my question do I need one for this project? I feel confident in doing much of the actual house wiring and maybe the panel wiring, but not the final hook-up. The meter install sort seems like teh project falls closer to the same type of project of the final panel hook-up so I am not sure it is a project for me. However, then again, it is just the meter and the transformer would not be live at that point. SO is it DIY project or not?
Elect. Service
Around here, a temp. service or as you describe here would require it to be permited and inspected by AHJ. Therefore you would need a licensed electrician.
where is around here?
Where is here?
Here you need a permit, question is do you need a licensed Electrian?
Elect. Service
Here is DAllas/Ft. Worth. You can't get an electrical pemit unless you are licenced. Maybe out in the boonies. I don't know.
Also I wonder what effect it might have on ones liability or insurance for a DIY installation.
I suppose I should mention that I am a GC and not an electrician. That is why I always call my friendly sparky.
I will bet you need a permit but if you are building a house you probably already have one. Just amend the permit for this meter base and I am guessing a service disconnect.
If they are OK with you doing the rest of the electric, they will probably be OK for this. It all depends on how your local building people feel about "owner/builder".
There are plebty of issues in doing this to code and if you are not sure you know them all, you probably should get an electrician.
IMO this is absoluely NOT a DIY project.
No plan to argue
Why is this not a DIY project? The power company hooks up the power from teh transformer to the base. Are splinters from teh post that much of a hazard in your opinion? Just joking. It seems like the project is sinking a post and attaching a meter base? Am I wrong? The other question is what meter unit do I want or need, and for that it might be easier to pay a guy fro his advice.
Thanks again.
I don't think you need to continue demonstrating your ignorance -- you've done the job just fine.
Cake walk
I think since this project was a ridiculous cake walk someone else on this board is demonstrating ignorance and lack of skills and or confidence.
IT is always possible to get an education, but sometimes it is just not worth spending the time. Of course there are always teh sub 60 IQ types like Dan you can not comprehend learning anything new or just not capable. Of course we just pray for the handcaped sub 60 iq types, at least I do. SO very sad.
reply
DoRight wrote:
Why is this not a DIY project? You asked a question and I answered it.
DoRight wrote: The power company hooks up the power from teh transformer to the base. Not usually.
For underground most places require the contractor to bring hte service lateral to the transformer pad. IMO this is NOT a DIY job.
DoRight wrote: It seems like the project is sinking a post and attaching a meter base? Am I wrong? Well, if you want to oversimplify it to the highest level, yeah. Thing is you have to wire it and provide grounding/grouding electrodes.
DoRight wrote: The other question is what meter unit do I want or need,This is something your POCO can tell you.
We don't even know what state you are in, HOW can we tell you what meter pan you need???
Thank you for your respectful answer
Thank you.
I know for a fact that the power company hooks up the transformer. As for oversimplificaion, yes I did. Yes there are ground rod(s) and conduit. Today I received a drawing from the power company as to what is required. It looks pretty straight forward. I may do a bit more homework if I have time or I might just sub it out as that is probably the easiest way to get advice as to what box is best, do I want an outletor outlets at the location, should I plan to run a well directly from this location, etc.
Thanks again.
Meter Base in
Update for all who care.
I put the meter base in, main breakers, ground rods, and outlet circuit for construction, no thanks to teh naysays who typically don't think anyone who does not call themselves a "professional" is capable of operating a screwdriver, and thanks to all who attempted to help. This was a no brainer, with a little homework, primarily the code details.
Got permit on-line, very easy.
The inspector was awesome, nice and helpful.
The biggest problem was deciding on 200 amp or 200 amp. About half electricians said an all electric house "should" be ok with 200 the other said go 400 amp. Electric furnace people said 400 amp, but then again they really don't know about that kind of stuff. The inspector said I made a safe bet with 400 amps. I still "guess" I went for overkill ... but then I am not sure ....
So for anyone considering this project go for it. Piece of cake.
The biggest problem was deciding on 200 amp or 200 amp.
Really, that doesn't sound like much of a decision! :)
xxPaulCPxx wrote:
The biggest problem was deciding on 200 amp or 200 amp.
Really, that doesn't sound like much of a decision! :)
I'm Glad he went with the 200Amp -- I think that was the right choice ;-)
Did I really type that? "200 vs 200". Ok, LOL.
I was amazed how difficult it was to get definitive advice on 200 vs 400 amp service. I talked to several electricians. Some said 200 was plenty for an ALL ELECTRIC house. Then I said "even with a 120 or 130 amp furnace, and the said ... "well that is a big furnace" as if they had never heard of such a thing. And the furnace "people" said they would size a furnace at 130 amps ... so. Some electricans said they would go with 400 amps, but did not really go into any detail. One guy at the power company said 200 was fine and another guy said you "might" go with 400.
Load calculations information on the web was all over the map as well. Some suggested taking heating, cooling, hot water, and cooking appliances and adding out the total load and others more or less said take 40 percent of it. It seemed to me that it would not be that unlikely a situation for to have a cold Christmas day with teh 130 amp furnace running, a goose in the 50 amp electric furnace, guest taking showers (40 amps) using hot water, and then the well pump kicks on, while others are watching teh Christmas day parade on the big screen. And yet no one could tell me why that senerio did not warrant 200 PLUS amps.
Pretty strange.
So 400 amps it is. Not a big big cost difference when doing the work yourself.
As often as not 400 ends up being 320 and that is not unreasonable with 130a of fixed electrical heating load.
The only real way to know is to do a load calculation. I think there are Excel templates out there to make it easy.
This is an old one I have but I have not played with it much
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/2005loadcalculator.xls
When I upgraded my service panel (from 100 to 200), I did it gradually, cutting circuits over from one panel to the other when they were ready. The first one I did was the largest ciruit I had, the 40 amp line to my electric oven.
I disconnected the 40a wire in the old panel
I cut the flex conduit and added the length I needed to jump from the old panel to the new panel
I ran new wire from the 40amp breaker in the old panel to a 40 amp breaker in the new panel... and labled it TEMP POWER CUTOFF
I installed a new 40 amp breaker and ran it to my oven.
I then gradually cut over all the other circuits in my house
Eventually, my entire house was running through that single 40amp circuit for about a month. Never any fade or browns, and I run alot of computers and have a heavy laser printer.
Did you have ...
Did you have a 130 amp furnace running on that 40 amp breaker? a 130 amp furnacne and a 40 amp hot water heater. perhaps?
It is interesting how one can get anacodotal (spelling?) stories about what can be done, but no one can explain how it can be ok to run a 130 amp furnace, a 40 amp hot water heater, a 40 amp oven, and xx amp well pump, and x number of lights and TVs simultaneously on a 200 amp service. This does not seem like a difficult question for anyone claiming (understanding you did not make that claim) to be an electrian, but it is! Bizzare.
It is easy to understand how you can have x number of breakers in your box totally well over the amperage of teh service. Obviously many many items are not running simulataneously. You may have several lighiting circuits and small appliance circuits which total your service enterance amperage, but you do not have every light and every outlet running at the same time. However, it is more than possible to be running furnance, heating water and cooking a turkey all at the same time. ?????????
I think the real curve ball for you is actually efficiency. In my case, I doubt I ever ran all 4 electric burners on HI and had the oven up at 475 and then did a bunch of other things simutaniously. The line I ran had to accomodate that, but barring that particular event there was still plenty of room on the line, apparently. Much to my surprise I might add - I fully expected to be resetiing the breakers fairly frequently.
I'll bet that 130 amp furnace is variable speed, and variable temp too. While it may use the full 130 for a second while it is warming up the coils on max AND starting the blower moter on max... it probably settles back to a much reduced run.
I bet you are right about the furnace draw. I beleive I even attempted to have a thread here asking if a 130 amp furnace actually drew 130 amps and or when. No good information was collected, which was par for that question ask of various sources. This is what I mean by hard to ferit out.
I did my own meter base and wired the house under a homeowner permit. I had an inspector that absolutely hated homeowners and did everything he could do to discourage and frustrate me. So I had to read lots, study hard and make sure everything was absolutely perfect. I had pulled 15 to 20 permits before that so I had some background experience.
You could pay a pro to do the service, meter base and install the main panel. Then you could so some or all of the branch circuit work. You'd still save lots of money because the branch circuits are were all the work is, and you'd gain valuable experience for the next job. And you'd get to watch and learn from the work the pro does.
Easily DIY in localities that let HO pull the permit and do the work.
Most poco have detailed guidelines on what they require (e.g. 3" sch 80 pvc for 400 A service, with 24" wide trench and dirt 24" away, etc. etc. ) Puget Sound energy here in PNW has very specific homeowner guidelines.
WA state constitution has been interpreted that HO are allowed to do own work on home they are living in, your state or locality may be different.
An electrical service is NOT rocket science. There are also many guidelines on the most common DIY 'mistakes' that inspectors flag, you can find them on the internet.
First hit on search for "common homeowner electrical mistakes" on bing:
http://electrical.about.com/od/electricalbasics/tp/commonelectricalmistakes.htm
Have at it!
thanks
Thanks, I will check out the link. That type of information is the exact kind of stuff I think about; do inspectors care about what type of accorns you use, or the type of outdoor outlet covers, or how many staples you use on the ground wire, etc. All the little stuff. The devil is in the details. As it turned out with this project, I did enough homework to keep me out of trouble, ... 3 inch conduit vs 2 1/2 etc. All this stuff the pros know or have been caught by an inspector before and don't make the error again. For the DIY you have to get alot of detailed information. Lucky I enjoy it.
I enjoyed the experience of figuring it out including, for the most part, getting ideas and questions form members of this board. It also gave me a great deal of comfort with the potential of working with my particular inspector again. I think he was a very helpful guy and will be available for code questions as I move forward.
I call bs on this post - talking about electrical service like an easy diy project is not only misleading, in many (most?) areas and all areas I've worked in power companies won't even consider allowing a homeowner to setup what you've allowed - not because it's rocket science, but because it's critical that everything is correct and since most diy types can't even figure out how to properly clean a paintbrush, this is more often than not screwed up.
No this isn't a DIY project. Yes anyone who is detail oriented and makes good decisions can figure out how to do it.
This reminds me of a discussions of DIY house jacking to replace a foundation. No it isn't rocket science, but it's well beyond DIY abilities and sensibilities.
As a contractor if a client wanted to take on this portion of the job I'd have to see something from them this is well above 95% of all homeowners before I'd consider it even if the local code would allow it.
It depends on where you live. In Florida you can do a service as a home owner as long as you get a permit and have it inspected. FPL just wants to see the permit and the inspector sign off. That is online now so they can do it before they even send out a crew.
Cake Walk Yes
Call BS if you like. However, this project was a joke. That is just a fact. If you must run around and scare everyone be my guest. And perhaps in some areas, or in the case of some power companies, things might be different, but perhaps rather than scream the sky is falling people should ask questions to clarify the scope of the project. Just telling please they can not operate (LOL) a screwdriver is not helpful except perhaps in inflating the ego of the naysayer.
I went into this project with a healthy dose of respect of the potential problems and understanding of the areas in which I needed to gain knowledge, which turned out to be a LOT LESS then I first thought.
I came and come to this board to hear from helpful people and also expect to hear from those who think special training is required to use a screwdriver. Comes with the territory.
Installing my meter base was a piece of cake. The fact of the matter is the meter was required to be installed prior to the power company even plowing the power line in! Totally a dead project! I made this clear in my postings here. Of course there are those who like to spout off and not actually read the posts and threads before commenting, perhaps an ego thing.
My project entailed:
Set posts.
Hang meter / breaker box on posts
Attach conduit from box to 24 inches below grade.
Drill hole in box for ground wire
Drive two ground wires in ground.
Run and staple ground wire from box to groound rods.
DONE! (as it was I also installed a 20 amp breaker and outlet in the box and on the post)
These are the facts. If you would be frightened of this as a project for yourself what can I say. I do not know your skill level with a screwdriver and sledge hammer.
If people thought this project entailed hooking-up the transformer to the meter, and said that is not a DIY project, I could understand that. However, one poster said my project was not a DIY project, when I asked why the question was ignored. Sure glad I ignored him.
This was a joke of a project and saved me 400 to 500 bucks. And that is not BS.
I'm with ya on this one. I built and remodeled houses for 15 years and became a pretty fair all-around builder. The main reason I got out is the frustration of every task becoming a weiner measuring contest if there was more than one guy involved.
If you say so.
All I can say is that was the case. You just don't have a clue as to what you are talking about IN MY PARTICULAR CASE. I did the homework, and I did the work, I had it inspected, I had the pwoer company hook it up and they said my install was better than have of the professional jobs they energize. You just don't have clue. I know what I am talking about BECAUSE I ACTUALLY DID IT. DONE! Just a fact. A no brainer. You can not know crapp about it since you were not there and know NOTHING about this jurisdiction. Just a fact.
Of course the power company had specs on the post, 6 x 6, PT, 3 feet min in ground, 4 to 6 feet above ground. Now if you are not capable of reading then, in your case, you might have a bit more trouble. Or if your IQ is sub 60 you could have a problem.
The take away here is that anyone who wishes to do this job should do their homework and ignore the naysayers on this board.
I have no doubt you did just fine in your simple install - my beef isn't with that, it's that you are trying to tell everyone that a service hookup is easy. It's complicated in situations where there are multiple choices that have significant impacts on the project as it moves further to completion, not to mention the impact meter site selection has in situations with multiple buildings fed from the location chosen and the gray area surrounding what is and isn't a "building" for this purpose (or what needs to be done to bring an existing outbuilding up to specs - complicated by historic district rules that govern what we can and can't do and the work arounds for situations we want to fall in our favor). I take pride in working with a top electrican and architects to work all this out so the client gets the best solution. The electrican by himself doesn't see the big picture, the architect doesn't understand electrical codes and how they are inforced locally to know how far things can be bent to what he wants aesthecially, and I'm the only one who works continously with the clients and the site to see things the others might not and make sure we're all working together. I'm also the one who gets to be the bad guy and take the heat away from my subs when we don't get our way and have to call in favors at city hall or file formal complaints - find instructions for that in a code book! lol
DIfferent in different locations
No, I am not "telling everyone hook-up is easy". I said my hook-up was easy, don't be afraid to look into your own situation. And I repeatedly stated that it very well might be different in different locations.
One of my beefs is that people repeatedly scream blooding murder "how this and that is not humanly possible for mer mortals".
Second, beef might be that people don't read posts and make ASS-out of-U-and-ME about many inpertient things. Many other people try very hard to ask clarifying questions, are very patient, encouraging, and helpful.
I am sure in some locations permiting is nearly impossible for a homeowner. But no one can assume this to be true, the HO needs to find out. I knew without question that HO permiting was not a problem (said so repeatedly in my posts) and the power company did not bat an eye(and said so repeatedly) when they knew I was interested in doing the work myself. As a side note, in my locale there is NO BUILDING DEPARTMENT; however, the state requires Electrical, Plumbing, and HVAC inspections. HO permits are easily obtainable for all. How gentle or helpful the inspectors are to HO is hard to say. The Electrical guy was great! And everyone's point here that if you are going to do some of these jobs yourself you need to get the facts, which is why I came and come to boards like this (not to mention I love to learn stuff which I do from you and many others on this board weekly)
You make great points about the value of professional advice. For example the location of the service enterance and future outbuildings etc. This was a major consideration for me as well. That is why the decsion about 200 vs 400 amp service was so hard. I knew about load calculations, but could not find a consitent method, and PROFESSIONALs were strangely all over the map on the subject . The professonals at power company suggested one thing and the professional inspector (who was a praticing electrician for 20 years) suggested the opposite.
So advice is great; however, in my experience most professionals just want to get the job done. Not a reflection on you or anyone on the board, just my experience. This could be for various reasons, one of which is that some customers "know best" and probably suggest to the contractor that they should mind there own business so contractors are taught to stay out of it.. Or doing it right costs more and they learn that is a losser for them. I GET IT. Then again I have gotten alot of advice from professionals which just plain turned out wrong. Ask yourself how many times you dug into a remodel and cursed the remodeler before you. How many times was that remodeler another "professional".
A friend of mine asked me to replace her vinyl (spelling?) floor. I looked at it and could see that in order for the entry door to clear the flooring without scraping I would have to take out the old flooring if not the underlayment, so I passed. She hired a professional. You guessed it! He took the easy path and laid the new floor on top of the old, collected his insane pay, and moved on. My friend then called me and said her door dragged horribly on the floor. I then ripe her door out and raised it, redid the trim and siding, etc.
Just sayin
I shouldn't have been so hard on you and I should have been more positive about it all - it was a stressful week, not that that's an excuse, but I'm not really as big an ass as I sounded. I was reminded today to not sweat the small stuff.....and it's all small stuff.
You are right about "professionals" and I don't like the bottom 90 percent of them from all trades. There is a brain drain in construction right now so it's a hard time for the industry and especially clients.
That is big of you! A rare post. Thank you.
I too should not rise to every ocassion offered.
Thanks for your input.
I still really love your post about the two tone painting trick (That was you, right?)
You have no clue
You are clueless. I did what I said I did, had it inspected, and energized. Just a fact.
I don't doubt it is different in different areas, but for you to insist that my jurisdication is governed as is yours is to make you look dumb.
I would be interested in any citations from the NEC to support all of those concerns about these posts.
You are certainly trying to complicate a simple task with a lot of bull spit
Thanks gfret
Yes, the electricial inspector had me plumb my posts to within 3 nanometers. That really was the hardest part of the job. LOL.
RE: Service panel size.
I'm. surprised the utility company did not want load calculations in order to size the transformer.
We have to supply this information to apply for electrical service.