DW and I are looking at moving. Our 1932 bungalow (1150 sq ft) works for us and the little one. But his impending sibling will make it all seem a lot smaller. The market in our area (NorCal, Sac. area) is down, not so much for houses with character, but especially for the new homes in subdivisions.
So we looked at a cookie-cutter KB Homes development. We can get 500-900 sq ft more, in a brand new modern house for maybe $50K more than we can sell. Down the street from KB is a Centex development. Economically, it’s almost a no-braniner. But we like the houses w/ character and attention to detail, but in our range they all need another $50K of work to approach the “new and modern” feel of the production home. LIke a new kitchen and bath.
DW and I want to know what builders w/ more experience than I think of these cookie cutter corporate builders. Are we going to have problems in 2-5 yrs? The kind caused by the Wal Mart production approach to home building? Please be unflinchingly honest. Thanks.
Replies
For $50,000 you could add on to your existing house? I have a 1930 stucco home and it would be hard for me to give up. I am sure your neighborhood is homey too, something that might be good for the kids as they grow up. My home is 1200 square feet by the way but I am happily single, for now. My vote is for you to keep your place and look into having an extra room added on, if that is at all feasible according to the building department in your area. If it isn't then of course look into the cookie cutter homes. I just don't think the trade offs between the character of the home and the plainness of the mass built homes is worth it. And who knows an addition may turn out to be an investment!
Handyman, painter, wood floor refinisher, property maintenance in Tulsa, OK
No I don't think we could add on a bed, a bath, and upgrade the the electrical and water service, and the kitchen for less than $150K. What's it like in OK?
The cost of living is much less than most places, and yet Tulsa does have some fine points for those who crave a little sophistication. My 1930 stucco home, nestled in a semi cute neighborhood that is slowly being remodeled and updated house by house, cost me 47,000. The surrounding houses go for about as much. And yet each house in the neighborhood has different floor plans and character, not like a cookie cutter neighborhood at all. Here in Tulsa, that 400,000 will net a custom home will fancy trim all around, 5 bedrooms, a den, several baths. I kind of figured that 50,000 wouldn't get you very far. Heck, you could sell the place you are at now, and come to OK, get a place with all the room and character you needed for 140,000 (read, a home built before 1940) and with what is left semi retire for a few years lol at least until the kids got to walking and running and potty trained lolHandyman, painter, wood floor refinisher, property maintenance in Tulsa, OK
Look really close at how they build. Lot of new developements have details like missing flashins, no housewrap or tarpaper....
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unflinchingly honest
Well as someone on here once said, "KB and Centex, building tomarrows slums today!"
Seriously, those two builders are right down there at the bottom in terms of quality.
I'd personally stay away from them and look into putting money into the existing place if I could.
From what I see in those houses is that you'd have to live in one of them for 6-8 years before it was ever worth what you paid for it. Thats based on my experience with both of those builders in Central Texas. Maybe/hopefully thats not what you have to look forward to in the Sacramento area.
Doug
If Centex and KB are the same there as they are here, some things to consider:
Neither Centex or KB puts overhangs all the way around the house. In my opinion, this makes the house less weatherproof, and in the long run the house will not last as long. Looks kind of goofy and cheap too.
Are these slab on grade houses? Typically, that is what both of these production builders build. Are the older houses you have looked at slab on grade, crawl space, or basement? I don't know what is typically built in No Ca. Slabs are harder on the feet and legs, and don't heat as well unless they have radiant heat which I don't think these national production builders would do.
These production builders don't put real wood sheathing products like OSB or plywood on their home's walls. They typically use Celotex style "black board" or even worse, "Thermaply or Energy brace which is basically 1/8" thick cardboard! For houses built with this and vinyl siding, I sure hope the big bad wolf doesn't stop by and get to huffing and puffing.
Check the interior walls. These production builders often do 24" on center studs on non-load bearing walls. This makes for less than standard strength and less straight drywall.
Take note of the level of trim in these economy houses. I'm not sure what level of trim is typical in your area, but I can guarantee Centex and KB will do the least possible that they can and still sell the houses. What about the size of the trim? I've actually seen 2 1/4" casing used as base!
Note the size of the doors. The front door undoubtedly has to be a 3-0 but what about the bathrooms: are they 2-0? What size are the closet doors? Bedroom entry doors? Garage doors 7' high?
Look closely at the interior and exterior detail work. For these production builders, they hire the least expensive subcontractors they can find, and then beat them down more on their price, based on the promise of a years worth of work. The speed of production is paramount, and quality definitely comes in second. Then, some project manager who has never even visited the subdivision, finds a sub who will do it for a few $$ less, and boots the first sub out on his a$$. Then he gets a bonus and a company trip to the islands with the rest of the cheap skates. Who cares if there is a little water leak where some fascia metal didn't come together right, or some gaps in the moldings on the interior? Look in the hidden places like under the sinks, behind the doors, and in the garage or attic where framing is exposed - does it look like who ever did the work cared about what he was doing, or was he just trying to get done quick?
Roofing - I can guarantee they use 7/16" OSB or whatever is the code required minimum. What about the shingles? Are they 25 or 30 year, or a very minimal 20 yr? BTW - 20 yr shingles typically last 12 to 15 years.
As you can see, I could go through every aspect of the house.
Most states have a minimum set of standards called building codes. Quality minded builders use these standards as a basis and exceed them where they think it is necessary to produce a quality product. Production stick to code minimums, period; other wise there is no bonus and no trip to the islands - as a matter of fact, anyone who wants to get hung up on spending extra money to make the product better better have a current resume too.
These production home builders have making $$$$$$s and saving money down to the pennies, so you better believe that all you are getting is what you pay for.
Edited 1/8/2007 8:07 am ET by Mark_T
MarkHear !!! Hear !!!You hit the nail on the head. Centex use to be Fox & Jacobs famed for there lack of quality. I have an old F&J home and it scares me when the Texas winds start to blow. You can be certain they counted the nails and sheet rock tape to make sure just the minimal stuff was put in a home. I always wonder why a home has a shorter warranty than a new car? Really makes you wonder.Best thing to do is look for a bigger well built older home.Just my 2 cents.....
Actually, the old F&J were in a class by themselves. I remember the Flair and Accent and I can't remember the third level they built in The Colony. Instant ghetto.
I would take a Centx way before a KB, but neither would be on my short list.
If i were to buy in a development of new houses, I would look for a local builder-developer.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I remember the Flair and Accent and I can't remember the third level they built in The Colony. Instant ghetto.
Ugh, three names to all give me a twitch . . .
Had'ta bring those up, dincha?
"Ghetto" may be too nice. The 'hoods all look good on the outside--just no substance within.
Scarier part is that the F&J "monstrosities" of a decade or two ago might actually be better built (or built of better "stuff") than today's Centex's.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
EddieMy F&J was built in the late 60's and has aluminum wiring. The main structure is 2x4's on 24" centers. They used the wrong roof sheathing and the roof sags between the trusses (which are on 24" centers). Don't get me started on the plumbing, wiring, sliding glass door installed backward, insulation, no sheathing on the outside. I moved from up north to Texas 24 years ago and didn't know to look for these things when I bought this place. They installed the AC condensate drain backwards so the water had to run uphill to get to the main drain lines. A few years back the "Y" connector rusted through and the water from the kitchen, washer, and AC was running under the house. It washed away what little fill was under the house and the house nearly had to be condemned. The insurance company had a fit cause they had to come in and almost gut the house. The cost to repair the house (foundation, plumbing repair, drywall, new tile work, kitchen repair, all baths repaired, etc) was over 80K. The insurance folks said had F&J property compacted the soil before the house was built the cost of the repairs would have been greatly reduced.However, from what I've seen in my neighborhood over the last decade, the newer houses aren't built any better. It's hard to believe that they get nearly 200K (1500 sq. ft.)for them.Makes you wonder.....;>)
My F&J was built in the late 60's and has aluminum wiring
And, your neighborhood there is one of the reasons F&J is now known as Centex, too. Well, there, and southern Colin County.
Like Ed said, they were very clean work sites--the accountants jsut about issued nails per site, and the scraps went to the next job with about every crew working. I remember wandering off "up north" to go find a scrap bit of 1/2" drywall to make a repair, and there weren't any scraps on any F&J site. We saw a garage being "made up" with nothing but scraps (super said he had extra paint, not extra DW).
Go figure.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
What was the third trim level? Flair, Accent, ?. We looked briefly at F&J when we moved to Dallas in 79 but even us young rookies saw right through the eyewash. They did not hold up at all. 10 years later and they looked like they were falling apart.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Sheesh, now I clean can't remember, Elan, Classique, sum'pin like that, I remember calling them Shapries or Bic's, as all the other levels were trade names for pens . . .
We looked briefly at F&J when we moved to Dallas in 79
Yeah, that was a time to be in big D. All sorts of stuff going on. I remember some of the F&J stuff going in, as my folks had moved into a brand new F&J development on what had been the outskirts of Glen Ellen, IL only a decade before that. Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
If i were to buy in a development of new houses, I would look for a local builder-developer.
That makes sense to me too Ed.
I"d also suggest walking through the houses being framed. I'd be looking at all the things that everyone has posted.
After walking through both the "good" newly built homes, and the "bad" newly built homes, I'd look at the numbers being offered and make a choice based on whatever values were important to me.
I wouldn't accept a custom home built with missing flashings and I wouldn't accept a production home built with missing flashings.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Your reply is about what I expected from the BT'ers. These guys aren't crafting homespaces as much as they are building dwellings. But our market's gone azz-backwards where we can sell 1150 ft with its charm and 80 years of wear for $360K and get 2000 ft for around $410K. There's no way I can do an addition of that size with modern everything for $50K. But for that, we lose the quality, our yard size would go down and I could smell my neighbor. Why can't I just have it all? Is that too much to ask?;)
The way you describe it it doesn't sound like one of the new tract built houses will be a good investment at all. You have to think of your families financial future as well as just getting a bigger house. What about talking to your real estate agent about what would be a good investment? Are you sure you can't take that same $410k and buy something with a bit more quality and charm? Granted it may only be 1700+- sq ft. It sounds like you are just falling for the most house for the least money "supersize me" trap. Whatever you do buy, you aren't gonna stay there forever.
It's a no brainer. Keep the older home and add to it. Most new developer specials are garbage.
In addition to all the things listed above, the other consideration should be the value of the home in two to five years. Depending on the nature of the subdivisions in the area, your KB or Centex home could actually depreciate quickly. If the builders still have houses to develop, they set the price for those subdivisions. Their price is whatever sells the houses quickly.
Here is an example from personal experience. Here is Austin, there is large "hot" subdivision called Steiner Ranch. Two years ago this subdivision peaked in price. Our friend had bought near the peak despite the advice to not buy in that subdivision. Last year the husband changed jobs and needed to move to Nevada. The same house they purchased new was being sold by the developers for 30K less with many "upgrades". They ended up bringing alot of money to the table to sell their house.
Had they purchased a house closer in with some character for the same amount they bought the subdivision house, they probably would have cleared another 100k.
Keep your old house-it worth more-in manys ways.
Bruce
theres a reason your home has lasted so long. i would add on if your happy where your at. I live in SoCal, the home of mc masions. Every now and them the wife and I go at look at some new models these companies have for new developments.
Mostly all are 2 story which I dont really care for. Say its 2500 sq ft (which is about average here) Thats roughy 1250 a floor. Look also at lot size. Are your kids gonna want to play in the back yard? ok when their small but when their older your gonna want to kick the ol'soccer ball/play catch etc with them. Not to mention looking out your bathroom window and seeing your neighbor or his wall so close you can touch it. Ive seen them build So close here where they use the same scaffolding for 2 homes at the same time.
Plus the way they eliminated what is described here as "character" and replaced it with moldings, paint and tile , which all will cost extra BTW.
Then ya got association fees and siometimes the good ol'melow roos tax.
So for my situation , b/c my home is getting smaller as my 3 kids are growing (1180 sq ft) Im going to either move to anotherolder home or just add on me existing one.
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Like TGNY says, It's a no brainer. Keep the older home and add to it
I'm assuming that since youve been at BT a few times over the last 2-1/2 years, you do have some building skills, or at least picked up some knowledge by osmosis.
That said, that $50K can get a LOT accomplished in DIY mode, especially if a non kitchen/bath addition. In fact, if you follow some of the DIY threads in BT you may find that the building permits would be the biggest single cost. Make sure the addition includes a workshop <G>
One thought would be earthquake stability of the 1932 house and its attachemnt to the foundation, which you should check out. Surprisingly however, (according to IBC Fig 1615) Sacramento is near a null point for earthquake ground motion (1/4th what it could be on the coast).
Our house would need a new service panel and wiring (60 amp, existing K&T!), new plumbing (galvy!), and then a BR and a bath. And since we're at it, might as well do the outdated kitchen. Remodels in our area start at $150/ft. So to do all this starts us around $150K. Sounds crazy, but live out here for a week and your perspectives will change. And who knows what the city would say about going up on a 1930's footings. DIY would take me at least a year. A whole lot longer than we can afford to have me self-employed by......me. So there's the rub. Can't afford to do the remodel right, but we can afford to move into "tomorrow's slums, today"! That line's classic.
FWIW, 100% DIY perspective, If I took a whole year off the day job, I could build an entire 2000 sq ft house for under $150 K and I'm over 60 YO.
Could have done it in 6 mo 30 years ago, evenings and weekends only in a year.
Short turn around epends on priorities, no ball games, no movies, etc. for 6 months, etc. DW has to be in agreement and sync too.
Edited 1/10/2007 8:00 pm ET by junkhound
in a brand new modern house
Ah, now there's the fly in the ointment (which is where the other posters are keying off on "builder's houses").
The big national builders like Centex & KB, TB, et al, can build a new house--it is seldom a "modern" house, though. Oh, it will have traces of modern technology, uniwoven house wrap for one--but less well installed than even mediocre 15# felt. There will be foam panels on the outside walls, but that's to "make code" with the fig batts only installed in 2x4 exterior walls.
Most of those houses have most of the money in the veneer--expensive and detailed brick & masonry work. Even some fancy-looking exterior trim. Often, a visually upgrade "looking" roof. The "gotchas" tend to be in the details. Like "upgrading" to 15 year shingles, but on 11/32 desk. Or, fancy brick detailing, but with crummy/no flashing to the vinyl on the "back" side views of the house (or in un-engineered brick ledges.
The builders build the houses for speed, and are paid bonuses for finishing faster, not better. If it's Friday afternoon, and the flashing on the otherside of the house is not done, and the flashing crew goes to the next house on Monday--well, too bad for that house. (The schmo stuck with punchlists is generally not allowed to interfere with a closing for anything as complcated as missing flashing--assuming that worthy even would recognize proper flashing in the first place; let's just but a honking big bead of clear silicone down instead . . . )
I'm not trying to sound like a real estate agent here, but remember, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. If your 30's classic is in a good neighborhood that has been kept up and revitalized, you should be able to nail down some financing for an add-on. As has been mentioned before, depreciation is a big problem in the brand new starter homes. I remember when I was a kid in 1964 and my mom sold her '57 Chevy because it was a beat-up pile of junk--just an old car. She bought a 1964 Falcon and regretted it every day. Enough time has passed now that they are both classics and collectibles. In housing, it may be another 50-75 years, but we may look at a Centex neighborhood and say to ourselves, "Boy, I wish I would have bought in that neighborhood when I had the chance."
Or maybe not.
"Roger Staubach for President"
In housing, it may be another 50-75 years, but we may look at a Centex neighborhood and say to ourselves, "Boy, I wish I would have bought in that neighborhood when I had the chance."Or maybe not.
Neighborhood might be great in 50-75 years, but the centex homes will have fallen apart by then.
I guess I'll bite on this one, neighbor. Specially since we just moved to this Rancho Cordova because of my wife's job transfer. My wife didn't want a fixer-upper this time, since I am still remodeling the old home 1 1/2 hrs away.
We bought last summer and used homes were asking/selling for more than a new home. Even the 30+ year old homes that needed work. It just didn't make sense. Plus , we wanted a 3 car garage and most old homes were 2 car garages and the 30+ yearold homes had 1 car garages. No bueno for us.
1st of all, be careful of where you consider moving to. The Natomas area was just rezoned into Sacramento's flood plain and all homes will required to have flood insurance by this Nov. They reported that flood insurance will be around $300 now and will possibly double/triple by Nov.
Another thing is that your realestate fees could possibly cover the cost of a addition on your existing home. Depending on when you bought your home the property taxes could double or triple from what you are paying now. There are alot of these new developments that have Mello-Roos bonds in the range of $3000+ per year. The sales people tend to leave this "small detail" out unless you ask.
As for where we bought, we are off the 50Frwy and Zinfandel. The builder is Elliot Homes and I think that they well are done for track construction. As for pricing, you can pay quite a bit less that what they are asking. We pay about $80k less and I believe some have gotten better deals than us. One person who closed a month after we did, payed full price on the home, plus upgrades. We paid $440k for a 2201sqft single story home with a three car garage. Celilings in the house and garage are 10'+
As for the builders, Elliot homes is the only builder that will not work with your own agent. With the other builders, you agent must accompany you on the first time that you visit the models. The mello roos for Elliot Homes is only $300(not $3000) per year. The only thing I don't like about our home is that the hot/cold lines are home runs to each fixture. intead of being a branch line systen where I could install a hot water recirculating sysytem.
Interest rates are pretty good right now, too. If you need to talk to some one about financing for new or an addition, I do know someone who doesn't play games. Just let me know. I don't get anything out of it. I can also refer you to a real estate appraiser that lives in Rancho Cordova. He works this area and as far North as ChiCO.
Hope this helps
We're actually in Woodland and actually live in a flood zone now. You understand our predicament well. The new homes are with more to offer on paper are selling for less than the old ones! Our agent told us, they're cutting prices so low, even 5 year old homes in the last subdivsion here can't afford to sell. Luckily, the 30 years and older are competing and well.
Our friends did the same as you, so we're aware of Mello-Roos and how much negotiating power we have as buyers in this market.
I had a talk with the appraiser yesterday and was asking him about the market. In Sacramento in general, the prices don't seem to be going down, they are just holding their own. He also stated that right now, the only people that should be selling are the ones that get job transfers or people who can't afford the payment. Everyone else should wait it out. He did agree that if you really like where you live, then you are better to add on than to sell because of the seller fees run around 8-9% for sales agents, title and all other escrow fees.
He was also told me that he had his home recently on the market for 60 days and not a single person looked at it. There is too much inventory right now and if it doesn't sell right away, then everyone thinks they can pick it up for signifcantly less
I'm with the guys who say locate a local builder with a good reputation. Houses are just like any thing else - shop for value, not just the cheapest available (cheap square footage). Walk some houses - ask a company rep (maybe not a sales person) what the difference is between their product and that of the national builders.
Personally I hate old houses that require tons of maint and repair. If I had my druthers I just go ahead and build a new one every time the paint gets worn. Unfortunately, I only get 50% of the vote in our family... :-)
You get 50% of the vote. WOW!! I need to run that by my wife. She made me think the 5% I get is alot.
Yea, well, I've been working on her for us to build another. She said OK. Now all we gotta agree on is the type of location and the size. She wants smaller, I want a lot smaller... She wants subdivision, I want urban small town. Check back with me in a few years ;-)
i'm gonna jump in here and disagree with a few folks, i was working in central valley in 04 and saw some things, further south than sacramento but still,
the liabilities have caught up with lots of fly by nights in cali, now there is a 10 year warranty by the builder. if you buy a centex home that is less than 10 years old you can expect to be contacted by neighborhood groups ( or lawyers) to see if you have any problems/complaints. if you do have problems you may receive money to fix them.
the builders are well aware of this in cali and are watching it close, and are trying to build better quality as well as insulate themselves from responsibility, attempts will be made to tap the deep pockets.
one thing that they are starting to do that is way better in my opinion is stress the concrete in slab on grade. you put in hollow tubes, pour concrete and let cure, install cables in tubes, attach one end pull other, clamp it and fill with grout. these slabs are much better than those without, almost like the difference between concrete slabs that have rebar, and slabs that don't. they just didn't do that in 1932!
also sacto is a different market than arizona or texas, less room to expand and higher bare land costs. for me and for you i think (you have children, you have to make the decision based on what will appreciate the most and build your "FAMILIES" security!) compare what your existing house will be worth with a 50K remodel vs a centex home that cost 50K more in 5 and 10 years down the road. thats your winner despite personal preference.
I am intimately familar with the Sacramento area and local builders. The people I talk to (and based on my own experience), would say avoid KB and Beazer. If you want something not quite so "cookie cutter," a good real estate agent should be able to find you lots of choices in the way of semi-custom spec homes currently on the market with very motivated builder/sellers. Good luck!
My first house was a brand new townhouse built in 1987.
My second house was a 1955 split level in a development.
My current house is an 1852 Greek Revival in the country.
I have worked on all of these houses, and I can tell you one thing for sure......
I have stepped up drastically in quality every time......
Does this answer your question?
PS... Only downside is that at this rate I will probably retire in a teepee.....or a cave.
While in Fresno over the holidays I had dinner with a rental shop field sales guy who said residential building in that region was way down over what it was a year ago, so there will be contractors willing to build for less. Don't know how similar your market is to that.
I have mixed feelings about developers like KB. The houses are affordable, but they aren't made all that well and won't be as durable as from a builder who will pay more attention to such things.
If you are picky about any aspect of your house, KB is not for you.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
My wife's parents bought a winter home in Florida (Centex development) about 6 years ago. I would agree that the house has very little in the way of beautiful, or fancy details but the house has given them no problems at all. We have not heard of anyone else in the development with any real complaints about the quality either. This community was directly assaulted by the hurricane in Oct05, and the homes held up very well despite a great deal of destruction caused by the storm as it crossed Florida. As far as retaining its value, Florida has been a good place to tie up some money in real estate. They paid about 150K when they bought from Centex, and despite the recent slowdown in real estate, those homes are now selling for about 400K. It is a gated community, and to the credit of Centex they did make the grounds of the development quite beautiful. They definitely spent large amounts on landscaping around the homes and throughout the development.
I realize Centex does not build the type of home that many of the folks here do, but I just thought I would add a positive experience with Centex.
>> I would agree that the house has very little in the way of beautiful, or fancy details but the house has given them no problems at all. We have not heard of anyone else in the development with any real complaints about the quality either. <<
I'm thinking that maybe the problems start showing up in the 10 to 15 year time period. That is when the 20 yr shingles start to give out - for example. Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Many people don't know what is good workmanship and what is not. That is why getting a verbal reference for a tradesmen from "Joe Blow" may or may not be worth the hot air used to produce it. And, these old people's bi-focals don't allow them to look up at their house and see the details :-) (joke)
>> This community was directly assaulted by the hurricane in Oct05, and the homes held up very well despite a great deal of destruction caused by the storm as it crossed Florida. <<
Florida building codes are strict enough to deal with most of those situations. Double nailed shingles, lots of shear panels, Simpson tie downs, etc.
>> As far as retaining its value, Florida has been a good place to tie up some money in real estate. They paid about 150K when they bought from Centex, and despite the recent slowdown in real estate, those homes are now selling for about 400K. <<
Different types of houses are good/bad investments in different markets. Florida is a big place for retirees, and retirees like modest homes. On the other hand what the OP had to say about his market was (Sacramento CA?): "Our agent told us, they're cutting prices so low, even 5 year old homes in the last subdivsion here can't afford to sell." They being the national builders. So, buying a new, mass produced home, in his market is at least a questionable investment.
>> It is a gated community, and to the credit of Centex they did make the grounds of the development quite beautiful. They definitely spent large amounts on landscaping around the homes and throughout the development. << These national builders are master marketers. So, they will not spend a penny where they don't have to - where the home buyer can't see it - ie 24" OC interior walls, but put a nice caulk and paint job on everything and today's homebuyer is happy. Add some nice landscaping in front of the vinyl siding and it's an "upscale neighborhood".
Admittedly though, I was looking at a newly framed Centex house a few weeks ago - professional curiosity. It had the 24" OC interior walls, but I did notice that the exterior (building envelope) was wrapped up rather well. They used a housewrap called Fortify (sp?) that looked like ~5' wide builders felt, and had all the seams taped up. Flashing tape on the window flanges too. None of this is required by code. I guess they got burned too many times on building envelope leaks.
I just hope a lot of non-builders, remodelers, and subcontractors here are reading this thread and picking up on the underlying situation here. The OP is saying that it is a "no brainer" to buy one of these cheap square footage homes. This guy is "John Smith Average Homebuyer". This guy is probably an office worker who wouldn't know a #2 stud from a #3 stud if he was hit in the face with it. No disrespect to the OP - he is just from a different background, but he does represent, what, maybe 90% of the homebuyers today? Smaller builders who are trying to build something of quality have to sell homes in that environment - not necessarily compete with that market, but these nationals are driving prices down to where it's difficult to make money. So, these guys here at BT who say something along the lines of "Interior moldings need to be backprimed before they are installed. Builders who don't are just cheap and not proud of their work. It's just another $50 in labor and materials." have no clue what it takes to sell new homes. So, it's not a question as to weather interior molding should be backprimed, we all know it is better to do so - although a seasoned builder knows it is not necessary to produce a good quality product - but it is a matter of putting food on the table or having homes priced too high for a market sit unsold with outstanding bank notes.
Having been a general contractor in CA until 2004 I would consider the fact that the building standards for earthquakes is far tougher than it has ever been. The home I built in San Luis Obispo was not far from the center of the earthquake and did not have one crack anywhere. While other homes had parts of them come off the foundation. One building completely collapsed. None of the new buildings that I was aware of had any problems except those very close to the fault line which separated about one foot. Even the newer homes in that area did not come off of the foundation.
Another thing to consider is the affect prop 13 has on you now and how moving will affect your taxes. It may be cheaper in the long run to add on than to move into another home. Check with the city. You may be able to move your status within a certain area.
Carefully consider the soundness of your current structure.
When a new home is built the permit fees are much higher than when you remodel.
Some folks are happy to live a box lined up in row of like boxes. Other folks need more. I'm an old house guy, so I could never buy a house built by a high volume builder.
I just put a large 2 Story addition on the back of my 1890's house. about 600 square feet. We put in a new Kitchen, added a Family Room, and added a second Bathroom and 2nd floor laundry. Our original budget was $100K and it just grew and grew. We ended up going up to $160K for the addition and renovation. Price included some deferred maintenance like a complete roof tearoff and replacing the original waste line to the street, So the actual cost of the addition was about $125K, or around $200/SF. Since we have some very large older homes in our neighborhood selling in a higher price tier we did not price ourselves out of the neighborhood. I would definitely talk to a realtor or appraiser before making a decision to find out what your house will be worth after the addition. Most of the time in order to get your money out of an addition you need to move up into the next price tier and meet the desires of buyers in that tier.
Nice place Mike!
Got any more pictures, also some of the addition would be nice. Looks like a cool victorian.
Make them a bit larger, 31 KB is still to small, even for dialuppers. You can go up to 90 KB's and still not suffer the wrath of the slow people.
Doug