New power service/meter/panels
What is the “norm” for when a person wants to have their main service/meter/and panel upgraded as to requirements for height?
What we have is a main service fused disconnect that is set prior to the meter. Then from the meter, it goes to the main fused panel. Their is also another samller sub panel in the same location thet is directly fed from the main panel lugs to to the sub panel. All of this is in a recessed area of about 3’high x 4′ wide. The recess is built into the brick wall and has a access panel with a cut out to read the meter. Oh, yeah, all of this is no higher that 3″ from the ground. The mast(over head wires) is built into the brick wall so the only exposed wires are at the connection at the top, until you get in to the recessed area. This whole recess area is located below our kitchen window.
I know that this way, way obsolete and quite a bit of it is beyond current codes.
What I would like to know is that, if I want to upgrade, will the power company/building dept required that the height of the panels/meter be relocated to current code heigths. I realize that not all places will have the same answer, but I’m just looking for the “general norm”
When I called the local building dept, they wanted to know my address before they could “research” my question. I hung up. I not ready to open a can of worms with then quite yet. The power company has no problem reading my meter, but that doesn’t say much
Thanks in advance, as always…
I’ll post some pics tomorrow if anyone wants/needs a good laugh(or maybe a shutter)
Replies
Greetings m,
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someones attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers
'Nemo me impune lacesset'
No one will provoke me with impunity
I got "bumped" by the razzman...
http://www.codecheck.com/pg25_26electrical.html#serviceconductors
That shows the current specs.
While the POCO has not complained about the current installation they might want it changed if the service is being changed.
Depending on how "regulated" the codes are in your area I would take pictures and go down to the building department and explain that you want to upgrade, but have a problem meeting new codes and what options will they give you.
You might check directly with an electrical inspector.
Our city (Roanoke, VA) has a protocol/code for upgrading service [many houses built in this area prior to 1970 with 100 amp or less] that's detailed in a brochure.
Upgrading to 200 amp service is one of the things I'm going to have to do, I found the inspectors to be rather helpful, they'd rather answer questions first than tell someone to tear it out and start over.
YMMV,
the county dept here has some handouts explaining the utility requirements........as there are three POCO in my county,
your bldg dept may have something similar...go there instead of a phone call.....or if there is a supply house nearby they can usually explain what you need but, generally speaking
the TOP of the meter, not the meter cabinet is 5' above FG, and the aerial drops require a clevis which is sometimes supplied by the utility,
..also, alongwith having to install a new meter can you will need to upsize the conduit to 2" min. for a 200A service......
these are just basic thoughts....
Edited 2/11/2006 2:22 pm by maddog3
"What we have is a main service fused disconnect that is set prior to the meter. "
Do you mean that it is ELECTRICAL before the meter? That is very strange and will probably be changed.
I think someone has already posted a picture.
But I am not sure which one is yours.
http://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/jt6/Meter%20on%20Store_small.jpg
http://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/Meters1.jpg
Thats really migraines service???
I WISH that looked like mine.
Ready for a laugh, or a good chill to run up your spine???
Attachment follows
If you look at the site from where I posted those pictures you will find many, MUCH, MUCH WORSE.Wase that a basement window or crawlspace vent? I see a turnbutton it for some kind of enclosur/window screen.What is on the other side?I think that the solution is to install a standard riser and meter.If that is an accessible basement behind the opening install a panel inside.Otherwise install an outside panel and then run conduit down to the area and box it in and use it to place junction boxes to tie into the exisitng wiring.Or maybe some combination, doing the above for the existing circuits and running a feeder to a new sub-panel where needed for upgraded/new circuits.I doubt that they will allow either the meter or any panel to stay in that location.
Here are some of oither "good ones".http://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/cheaprent1.jpghttp://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/jt6/messmetersa.jpghttp://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/jt7/scan.jpghttp://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/broken.JPGhttp://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/oldmeter.JPGhttp://themeterguy.com/photogallery/Misc%20Photos/gS582613af887660.jpghttp://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/highmeter.jpghttp://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/Image001.jpg
http://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/Image002.jpg
http://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/jt6/MeterMan.jpg This one does not have anything to do with the meter, but I though that is was interesting.Most have been a cost plus job by an "articee".http://electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000212.htmlhttp://electrical-contractor.net/jt/incredible.jpghttp://www.themeterguy.com/photogallery/magnet.jpgAnd I am trying to figure out if this one meets the electrical code or the plumbing code.http://www.electrical-contractor.net/Violations/Submissions/CWaterTap.jpg
hahahahaha.................amateur hour........
Hey, so of those took real skill.Like the the receptacle box with the tamdem breakers mounted in it.And the PVC sculpture.And the meter "tree", takes real skill to figure out which wires go to which meter.
oh man the pole with all the meters.....the fire dept must live there......if there is a fire dept ! just where the heck is that. pole anyway??.......Wisconsin or Minnesota ?
Taking you pic and opening up the shadows in the attached: a few questions:What size are the cartridge fuses in the box on the left (with the large red arrows?) Am I correct that the service is coming into that box ("Box 1") at the "1" before getting to the meter?The labels on those 2 fuses seem to be green, which often indicates 30 amps (although I'm not sure if that holds with cartridge fuses)- that would indicate you have a 30 amp, 220 v service!?!With WAY two many branch circuits off of it, although it is hard to tell from the one pic.I'm thinking the service comes in thru those two fuses, passes through the box with the exposed cartridge fuses ("Box 2")and then into the meter thru the two wires on the left (small red arrows) and then back down into Box 2.Question: what happens to the neutral: the middle, unfused wire in Box 1? Where does it go? Is there no neutral connection in the meter base?And that loose ground "clamp" (purple arrow)what is that from? And the corroded BX just below the purple arrow? What's going on there?Can you get us some close up pics of Box 2, from a couple of angles (makes it easier to trace wires when you're looking at pics.)?How about the box which is still covered? Are you comfortable taking the cover off of it and shooting some pics?
View Image
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
The main fuses are 100amp(stamped on one end)
yes, the feed go from the disconnect to the meter, back to the main panel, all of this trough the main panel.
Combinations of 75 years of various wire types including aluminum
Doesn't seem to be a neutral going to the meter base unless it's from the back and I'd have to crawl though the crawl space to see
There are two branch circuits going from the main panel to two seperate sub panels, one on each floor.
Circuit breaker panel is directly tied into the main lugs on the main panel, not through a seperate fuse
Enclosed are 3 more closer shots.
When I first saw this house, I looked at the panel(s) and thought (oh, $hit!! This can be fixed.)
Most of the origional house wiring is run through flex conduit
Ground wire with purple wire goes to cable box. Alot of cables going through the boxes with out any protection from sharp edges.
Flex conduit at bottom reall y isn't corroded, but the verticle cable is cloth with a silver metalic paint coating. Maybe that's what you see.
And the qestions go one...
Thank you all for your time.
Nothing here that I don't comprehend. Just one of those where do we start. this is sort of the reason why I don't want the city coming around just yet. I don't want to be red tagged.
Edited 2/11/2006 8:07 pm by migraine
Boy, that service you have now is almost historical... ;-)
Try looking for your local power company's website, these days many of them have the requirements for new electric services posted online, with diagrams, etc.
Having the main disconnect upstream of the meter is unusual, but it may be something your local power company does. Again, that's probably shown in their online installation manual if they have one. If you upgrade, they'll probably want the meter mounted between 4 to 6 feet above the ground. That's typical around here at least. Also, that inset space is probably too small for a decent sized modern panel, so it would have to go somewhere else - either inside or outside, again depending on what is typical in your area. If for instance the new panel gets installed inside, the electrician could install a junction box in that inset space to make connections to some of the existing circuits, which would save you the expense of totally rewiring the house. You'd still probably want to run some new circuits to spread the loads out.
My take is that you should essentially abandon that kludge and get a new mast and a new meter properly mounted at a proper height on the outside of the house. Depending on local code, and what the rest of your wiring looks like, you may need a fused or unfused disconnect adjacent to the new meter.
It's not clear whether the rat's nest in the photo is the entire fuse/breaker system, or whether there are additional panels inside the house, but probably the wires from the meter disconnect should be run directly to panels, new or existing, in the house, leaving only a junction box in that cubby.
Anything else and you run the risk that some future upgrade to the electrical system is going to run afoul of an inspector who isn't inclined to give waviers for pre-existing messes.
happy?