New second story strategies please???
I’ve got a second story remodel for the Spring–in the planning/estimating process now.
This is a single story house, 2×4 walls, 2×6 ceiling joists 16″ oc and a 2×4 stick framed roof structure that will be removed for installation of attic and dormer trusses.
The part I want suggestions and help on is that we plan to keep the main floor ceiling with it’s plaster cove perimeter and tray ceiling in place.
How to integrate the new trusses? — with the existing 2×6 ceiling joists in place?
How to beef up door and window headers in the main floor framing without tearing them out–can this be done above the top plates, within’ the existing 2×6 ceiling structure? There is one existing picture window–the plans are calling for 3 1/2 x 9 1/4 lvl or equiv… that we probably have to do from outside, in the main floor wall??? if we don’t want to disturb the interior finish?
Could the existing ceiling be partially or totally decked over before placing the trusses? Could each truss (theoretically) be strapped down to the top plates at the exterior in lieu of H1’s for instance?
All help appreciated,
Pat
Replies
Doing a second story addition requires a fair amount of planning as well as timing with respect to weather. It also helps if you have a good sized crew with plenty of experience.
You can keep your ceiling. Remove the roofing, sheathing and old rafters. This may take more than one day depending on the size of the roof and how carefully you need to be covered up at the end of the day. You will need plenty of sawsall blade to cut away the rafters.
After you have removed the rafters you will need to square up the ends of the ceiling joists which have probably had the top corners hacked off. You can do this with short sisters and blocking between the joists and flush to the outside of the first floor plate. Nail a plate on top of these squared up ceiling joist ends and set your trusses on this plate. Use appropriate straps to tie down these trusses to the existing walls. Sheath and roof.
Have more time and people than you think you will need and be ready to cover up at the end of the day. The one time we did something like this, it went incredibly well but a sudden thunderstorm could have been a complete disaster. We did have a very experience group.
Good luck.
Best to have an engineer and architect.Usually sister new joists beside old ones, Say 2X10's or I joists.
A header in the rim Board of the 2nd floor joist system may take care of the header strengthening.
I don't know an engineer or an architect in our area that I would trust to tell me how to put on the second story additon. I might want them to check out the foundation and size the headers but anyone competent to actually do this project knows this already.
If the OP was using lumber rafters, I would agree that full sized joists would be preferred. This is what we did on our project. This has one additional complication, all the wiring that runs in the ceiling has to be rerouted as you add these joists.
The OP is using attic trusses and thus only needs a flat even surface to set the truss upon. The sisters that I am referring to are just 2' long, just long enough to help secure the blocking.
I have archy and engineer.Looking for tips from those who've done this before--with Trusses.??Thanks,
pat
Hey thanks,
Good suggestion on the second plate above the joists. Good oppty for leveling there too.yep--I have 3 others, experienced help I've worked with before. Job is planned for after it stops raining here in Oregon, but I have several very large tarps too.Pat
never tackled one,but watched a crew do one in a way that kept them under roof pretty well.
they went in and cut about 18" from the edge of the roof,so they basically had a slot along the front of the house. cut out one gable end so they could get into the attic to work.they then slid the new floor joist into the holes and got nailed in place.used some roofing paper to make flashing over the holes that were cut. then working through the gable end threw down the subfloor.
they then went in removed front half of the roof,studded the walls up. at this point if it rained it would of been easy to throw up a tarp from the walls to the roof peak. once the walls were sheeted they then went to the back knocked the roof down and studded the back wall.
they had the back wall,trusses set in 1 day,2nd day sheeted and tar papered.they were dry from then on.
i thought it was a pretty slick way to keep the minimum amount of exposure to the elements.
i did noticed that laying by the side of the house was a huge pile of tarps!!! so this wasn't the guys first time.
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
That sounds pretty cool.
I think I may have seen one like that in an old FHB too.My problem is I have trusses so it's all got to come off, but the ceiling joists.Cheers,
Pat
do you think the trusses would be a problem to go in and cut your slot and remove 2'of the top chord? probably a web in that area to help.
then before you cut anymore, you get your floor joist in place and screwed to the ceiling joist.
another thought. you just cut a slot beside each truss,slide the new floor joist in without disturbing the truss. then when it comes time to remove half the roof,just a 2x4 upright in the middle of the truss down to the floor,till your ready to remove the other half.
hopefully you don't have a snow load to worry about while doing this.lol
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
I think we're confused--I'm replacing stick frame with attic trusses. The only thing I will leave is the orig ceiling joist structure.The new 2nd floor joists are the bottom chord of new trusses.
>> I think we're confused--I'm replacing stick frame with attic trusses. The only thing I will leave is the orig ceiling joist structure.The new 2nd floor joists are the bottom chord of new trusses. <<Where/how will you cut out the trusses for the new stairwell?Joe Carola
Good question,there are girder trusses on either side of the dormer framing in the 2nd floor structure.2x12 ladder framing for the floor across this area will provide for the stairwell and create the 'room' for the dormers.Thx,
pat
I do alot of AAL's (Add-A-Level's)and I will cut back 1-1/2" on the existing ceiling joists and add a full length box. It's faster than cutting all the blocks. We then add one or two 2x's flat and set the I-joists on top. This is really a good way to do this.Any headers below that can't handle the weight you just add flush headers above and hang the new joists. If you have the man power that have experience you will be good to go. Good luck!Joe Carola
thx joe!
Hey, aint you the 2nd story addition magician?
OP: You've been rez'ed
Naive but refreshing !
Yeah! Where is he?I watched a picture thread of his on this a year or two ago, but he platformed the second story and built walls.I have attic trusses with floor bottom chords.Looking forward to more info,
Thx,
pat
I did one similar a few years back. We put double plates on top of bottom chord(2x4 truss bottom) and then framed new 2x10 floor frame on top of that. No need to rerun any electric and kept ceiling intact. Family actually stayed in the house during project. We framed an entire new 2nd floor. Net-net, it only added one more riser to stairs. We also built headers into band board for first floor windows and doors. We waited for a good weather window and started on a Monday and papered new roof on Thursday nite, rained big time Friday nite, but we were dry.
Did another one where we erected strongbacks at gable ends with a stout rope between, like a ridge, and tented it with a large tarp at nite, as it was a wet season. Worked pretty well, got a little wet one night, but not disatrous.
Good luck, Kimball
Hey Pat, How you been?
So if im thinking correctly the attic trusses are going to be the new living space with the bottom cords of the trusses being the finished floor...correct?
So you need to find a way to add additional support to the existing headers on the openings in the first floor...correct?
We did a pop top last year above a shop. we didnt want to replace the headers in the shop doors with bigger units so we used an LSL as the new "structural" rim board. The i joist rest in hangers attached to the LSL and the LSL spanned those openings.
(Think a long header stacked over a shorter header.) This helped to take the second story loads and transfer down to the footings. We had open access to wall below and we doubled up the king studs.
Could you have your trusses made 4" +- short, then drop them into a hanger doing basically the same thing as we did?
Your truss design would have the bottom cord run clear through to the rim board with the top cord running out for the tail as a typical attic truss would be.
Hi John,Doing well--new baby at home--she's 2 mos. The other one started school this year--Wild times! How 'bout you? busy?You are correct in all you read about my job.Good suggestions--structural rim board--and explained well. I had certainly thought to place new headers on the existing top plates. a 3.5x5.5lvl/lsl straight across and possibly hang the existing ceiling joists in hangers to it--there is a cove detail in the plaster ceiling below that may allow easy access that way.There is one picture window requiring possibly (i don't calculate well) a larger header than I could fit in the space of the ceiling joists--perhaps shortening the truss heels there and hanging them off something as you say would work.I'm going to bring the plans down to my plan review buddy at the city and get his input first, then if I need to engineer the drawings I will.Good to hear from you,
Give me a buzz any time.
Pat
Congrats on the new baby! Thats exciting for sure!
Well busy hasnt been in my vocabulary this year but i had been steady up to last month. Nothing big like i had been doing last few years so grabbing whatever small stuff that i can.
Not liking the way things are looking for next year but i am trying to be an optemist and looking to get going on something soon.
Thinking on your project again, you may be surprised at how little additional support may be needed in the existing headers.
The shocker usualy for me is all the additional lateral support, brackets, braces, holdowns into the existing walls and foundation, that is the biggest cost factor for time.
If this is in estimate phase id surely add in a big factor for this, ( Or not and low ball it like alot of other peeps would, with a clause that states any additional engineering is above and beyond) and almost without question an engineer will be needed. If you get your plans submitted without one.....bless you!! lol
Usualy the dealing with the electrical wires is the issue, pulling them out of the way and then running them through a new floor isnt to big of a deal, but no go with drilling through trusses.
Everything needs to be re routed through the knee walls.
I dont know who you like to use for trusses here, but The truss company is usualy alot more planner friendly for these things. IMHO.
Two plates and truss above will make for lots of wire room--hvac thru the knee wall areas I'll assume--she's got gas forced air now--have to see if the unit can handle the extra 500sf of area now.Moshofsky truss was my go to--had gotten started with them in the first place and they're right over by my house--but they just went belly up and gave their client list to Relco Truss.Relco seems ok--have already given me a prelim design and bid.Ironically, when I first moved out here as a dirtbag surfer/mountainbiker with not much else to do, I worked 4 10hour shifts a week for about 3 weeks at the Truss CO. out there by the airport to make some dough and head to California to surf!Pat
Ok... i get what you are saying then, was still thinking trusses would sister along existing joists. Sounds like plenty of room for wires!
What kind of siding are you going to need to deal with? hope its not stucco.
Didnt know mashofsky's is done. well that tells you how big my projects have been! lol. Thats to bad, they have been around forever and old man jim that used to run the crane was flippen awsome.
I have never used relco. Would be good to hear your experiance with them. I have used action truss out of salem. they often would beat anybody's price down here and thats with the 120 mile round trip.
Hey,Good to hear you're still workin'We've got bevel siding below adn will be sidewall shingles above. Good there.Yeah Moshofsky. They did the trusses on my beach job 2 summers ago. Came out on the 18wheeler with the boom and totally, and I mean TOTALLY threaded the needle in there, backing out 2 blocks and cutting a corner thru the neighbor's yard, around a T pole.Here's the subject. And some little cathedral trusses flying in to Yachats!Pat
Isolate, isolate, isolate.
I'd run a new rim joist consisting of 2x6 blocking in between each ceiling joist. and then lay a double plate on top of that. I'd then install all the new trusses on top of the doubled plate.
You didn't mention how large this project is. What is the basic dimensions?
We put a second story on a 900 sf home in one day when we preframed the walls. We cut out the existing roof, framed a second floor with 2x10 joists, flew in the walls, set the roof trusses and sheathed the roof. We then dryed in the roof.
For the demo: about two hours with 8 men.
The rest of the framing was done with our 4 carps. I put in 8.5 hours that day. The other three put in 9.5.
We had to go back on another day to lay the interior floor sheathing and interior partitions. We subbed out the siding.
There's a picture thread in here somewhere. I have no idea how to search and find anything.
Hey Jim,
Thanks--this is looking to be the plan--block for rim, then double plate above, then trusses.The job is small 37' x 34' roughly with gables and dormers.We will be three--maybe 4 for demo. We should be able to demo in 2 days, clean up, block and rim and then be ready for trusses in another 1 or 2.8 guys! I wouldn't know how to keep that many busy!How did you accomplish increasing headers in the walls below on that job?Cheers,
pat
You most certainly won't need two full days for demo on that size house. If you think that...you are thinking about how to demo it from a wrong perspective. Heres' what we did.I was on the front of the house with my normal saw and normal carbide blade. I also had a sawzall available but the bulk of the work was done with the saw. The roof had 14-16' rafters...they probably were the old 2x4...but very possibly they were 2x6. We bashed out the gable vent to get an idea where the first rafter is (probably 16" from the end...right?). I then cut through the shingles and plywood and ran the saw down 1/3 of the roof. I did the same thing next to the other rafter. As I was finishing the cut, one of the laborers grabbed the large chunk of roof and walked it to the edge and dumped it into the dumpster. I continued going down the roof all the way to the bottom. On this roof, we were able to chop each rafter bay in three sections. The chunks were manageable that way. There were two layers of shingles on it. After that first slot was created, I cut the rafter into three chunks and then moved 16" away and cut through the shingles and ply again. I was whacking away as fast as the saw would allow....not pushing it and there was always a guy holding the chunk up so it wouldnt hit the ceiling. We saved the entire ceiling this way. While I was chopping the front up, there was another guy in the back doing the same thing. We quickly moved across the entire roof and had the bulk of the roof gone by coffee break. The crew: the four laborers were our normal roofing crew. They were hardworking grunts that didn't mind carrying the chunks. My normal carpenter were on the roof with the saws and sawzalls. They also carried too when needed. I probably went through three or four carbide blades. The key is to not push too fast because if you do, and you hit a nail, it will knock the teeth off. If you push slow through a nail, it cuts the nail. If you can't find the old thread, I'll post the pics again. I have them somewhere...probably on another computer.http://thewoodshedtavern.com. = no peer mods!
Hey Jim,Yeah, I know it can be done faster. I say two days, what's more like a day and a half because I want to account for protecting all the landscaping and first floor windows and whatnot. I've ripped off roofs like this before in much the same manner as you describe. Cut the whole mess, from peak down between the rafters with a circular saw, cut the peak apart on each 'block' and pry it up and over the wall down to the ground or into the dumpster.The homeowner, like many here in Eugene, wants to be super 'green' and recycle everything and will pay for it. Here I will probably even strip the asphalt first so that it can go to waste recovery and all the wood can go for reuse or wood recovery--which actually costs wayyy less than the dumpster.That 'Gutster' pry bar tool I've posted about is great for all this. I have 2 now.I've also used those Gutster tools, and the skilsaw with carbide as you mention, to cut several layers of asphalt or asphalt and wood shingles into "Brownies" that pry up in 2'x2' squares to be carried off the roof and tossed down.Cheers,
Pat
Recycling will certainly take more time. I'm glad they are paying for it. http://thewoodshedtavern.com. = no peer mods!
No thoughts of lifting the first story and building a proper new first story (and foundation, if needed)? The original first floor is built only to carry itself and the roof.
k
Whoa nellie!Yes I 've seen this done but it ain't happenin here!Day light basement out the front and excellent foundation.Pat
I know it seems like a lot, but in some ways it's less work than trying to retrofit the existing structure to carry the new loads above. Especially in the ring of fire.
k
Yeah,I need to get with the engineer. New hold downs in the existing structure will really be a pain in the ####.In this circumstance the main floor needs to stay what it is. The new upper will gain two good sized rooms and a sitting area near the stair.
I don't agree. I've built thousands of two story houses on the same 2x4 walls that he is talking about. It's crazy to move the second up. We framed up the second story in one day.http://thewoodshedtavern.com. = no peer mods!
You live in earthquake country?
k
edit- from the State of Oregon Department of Geology and Mineral Services:
The Portland metropolitan area and surrounding vicinity have been the most seismically active region in Oregon in historical times. Based on the relatively brief 150-year historic record, six earthquakes of Richter magnitude (ML) 5 or greater have occurred within the greater Portland area including the damaging ML 5.5 Portland earthquake of 1962 and the ML 5.6 Scott Mills earthquake of 1993 (Bott and Wong, 1993). In contrast, recent geophysical studies indicate the presence of at least three crustal faults beneath the Portland metropolitan area (Blakely and others, 1995; Pratt and others, in preparation) which could generate much more damaging crustal earthquakes of ML 6.5 or larger. An evaluation of earthquake recurrence based on the historical record suggests that crustal earthquakes of ML 6.5 and larger occur somewhere in the Portland region on average about every 1,000 years (Bott and Wong, 1993). Additionally, a convincing case has now been made to indicate that Cascadia subduction zone earthquakes up to moment magnitude (MW) 9 have occurred in the prehistoric past, as recently as the year 1700, and will occur in the future (e.g., Atwater and others, 1995; Satake and others, 1996). Thus, although in its 150-year existence the Portland metropolitan area has gone relatively unscathed by damaging earthquakes, strong ground shaking generated by either a Cascadia subduction zone earthquake or a nearby crustal event will certainly have a major future impact on the Portland area.That's Richter 6.5 and Richter 9, in case your eyes glazed over...Edited 12/4/2009 9:50 pm by KFC <!-- KFC1002 -->Edited 12/4/2009 11:59 pm by KFC <!-- KFC1002 -->
Edited 12/5/2009 9:28 am by KFC
More info (although not neccesarily pertinent to Jersians or texans)
The wall framing requirements are currently referenced under IBC (and CBC) Table 2308.9.1
If you're under IBC, I'm saying.
k
If the first floor doesn't meet the local specs, then it would be cheaper to bulldoze everything rather than to renovate the second floor, then raise it and fit a floor under it, while trying to save the plaster ceilings. . Of course, if he want's the same room layout upstairs as he has now for the downstairs, then we'd have to rethink things..given the plaster ceilings. http://thewoodshedtavern.com. = no peer mods!
I don't know how it is in Eugene, but around here you often wouldn't be allowed to rebuild (or build new) in the same footprint, if you cleared the lot. Setbacks, maximum lot coverages, etc.
People go to amazing lengths to retain 51% of a structure so they can build to non-conforming footprints.
Life in the Big City.
k
Edited 12/5/2009 11:39 am by KFC
>>No thoughts of lifting the first story and building a proper new first story (and foundation, if needed)? The original first floor is built only to carry itself and the roof. <<Is that how they build them where you're from? Around here it doesn't matter whether you have a one or two story house the foundation is the same for both. One story house can handle a second story addition.Joe Carola
Yes, a two story foundation has to be beefier than a one story. But I'm actually thinking about the lateral and uplift restraint that's going to have to be inserted into that original 2x4 frame to handle the new load above. The new upper story might be dried in in less than a week, but you could spend a month surgically implanting all the required structure into the old section, then patching it up. And not a fun month at that. Think dental surgery.k
>> Yes, a two story foundation has to be beefier than a one story. <<That's odd. I guess it's a Regional thing. Like I said, I one story house has the same foundation as a two story house around here.>> But I'm actually thinking about the lateral and uplift restraint that's going to have to be inserted into that original 2x4 frame to handle the new load above. <<That must be a Regional thing also. Why would you have to do anything to the first floor 2x4's?Joe Carola
It could be that your guys are just building massive enough foundations they work for two, three, whatever stories, especially if frost lines are in play.But, I have a chart I think is pulled from UBC Table 18-I-c which says that a foundation:
supporting one floor has a minimum total depth (stem and footer) of 12", a minimum footer depth of 6", a minimum footer width of 12", and a minimum stem width of 6" .
supporting two floors has a minimum total depth (stem and footer) of 18", minimum footer depth of 7", minimum footer width of 15", and minimum stem width of 8".Also, if there are no other structural considerations (like an additionally engineered inserted post and beam structure) I don't believe you're allowed to build a second story on a 2x4 first floor at all.And then, you have to catch all that new high center of gravity weight when the earth moves one way, and the inertia of the new structure causes it to stay put. That means hold downs, threaded rod, new shear panels or moment frames, etc. etc.By the time you insert all that into an existing finished first floor and repair the damage, you'll wish you'd just lifted the thing...k
>> It could be that your guys are just building massive enough foundations they work for two, three, whatever stories, especially if frost lines are in play. <<Frost lines are in play that's probably why all foundations are the same whether one two stories.>> Also, if there are no other structural considerations (like an additionally engineered inserted post and beam structure) I don't believe you're allowed to build a second story on a 2x4 first floor at all. <<Why not? Regional thing?>> And then, you have to catch all that new high center of gravity weight when the earth moves one way, and the inertia of the new structure causes it to stay put. That means hold downs, threaded rod, new shear panels or moment frames, etc. etc. <<Must be a Regional things because we can frame two stories above a one story 2x4 wall house without touching anything on the first floor, unless an added post somewhere to support a beam above. Other then that, nothings has to be done down below like, hold downs, threaded rod, new shear panels or moment frames. Sounds like a nightmare. Doesn't sound like there are to many AAL's going on where you're from.Joe Carola
Edited 12/4/2009 5:53 pm ET by Framer
A lot more lifted buildings than straight add-ons. Some of that is because the housing stock in the bay area is around a hundred years old on average, and most of the buildings could use new foundations anyway. If you're going to lift the thing 3" to put the new foundation in, might as well lift it 10' 3" at the same time, just some extra cribbing.The table I have which says you're not permitted to carry a second story on a 2x4 first floor is "Table 23-IV-B" from the UBC.(Bear in mind when I'm quoting these tables- I don't actually have the UBC, just these printouts. There could well be an error. If anyone actually has the UBC in front of them and can look them up, I'd be curious to hear what the actual book has to say).And *then*, there's the seismic requirements...Are you under UBC, Framer?
k
Edited 12/4/2009 6:01 pm by KFC
>> A lot more lifted buildings than straight add-ons. Some of that is because the housing stock in the bay area is around a hundred years old on average, and most of the buildings could use new foundations anyway. <<That would explain not adding an AAL onto a foundation like that.>> The table I have which says you're not permitted to carry a second story on a 2x4 first floor is "Table 23-IV-B" from the UBC. <<It has to be because of the foundation. It can't possibly be because the 2x4's won't handle the second story.>> And *then*, there's the seismic requirements... <<We don't have to do much of that yet where I'm from. Down south Jersey they are doing some of that.>> Are you under UBC, Framer? <<No, under IRC 2006 New Jersey Edition.Joe Carola
No, the 2x6 requirement is a separate requirement entirely. Actually, it can be 2x6's or 3x4's according to my chart.The foundation itself would have to have a 8" wide stem wall for two stories, mind you.And the seismic stuff- the general rule of thumb I learned was that your structure has to be designed to resist .3 times the weight of the structure acting laterally at the center of gravity. So, if you turned your structure sideways, and bolted it to a cliff, it would have to be able to carry roughly a third of the overall weight hung on a line from the center of gravity, which is usually near the attic ceiling. It may actually be more than .3, now.
k
>> No, the 2x6 requirement is a separate requirement entirely. Actually, it can be 2x6's or 3x4's according to my chart. <<Not following you here. Are you saying that you can't frame a second story on top of a one story house that has 2x4 first floor walls?>> And the seismic stuff- the general rule of thumb I learned was that your structure has to be designed to resist .3 times the weight of the structure acting laterally at the center of gravity. So, if you turned your structure sideways, and bolted it to a cliff, it would have to be able to carry roughly a third of the overall weight hung on a line from the center of gravity, which is usually near the attic ceiling. It may actually be more than .3, now. <<I don't know about any of that stuff. We don't put any hardware for stuff like that yet. Joist hangers and foundation bolts are standard. Hold-downs and straps.......etc we don't do anything.Joe Carola
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Not without an inserted secondary structure that an engineer ok's.
k
edit- let me add, I've never run a permitted second-story addition job myself, so I'm getting this from charts, not real-world experience.
I do know on the 2-story seismic retrofit I worked on, we were punching into everything, and had most of an entirely new structure embedded into the existing one by the time we were done. If zoning would have allowed it, it would have definitely been cheaper to raze it and start over.
Edited 12/4/2009 7:36 pm by KFC
>> Yes, that's what I'm saying. Not without an inserted secondary structure that an engineer ok's. <<That's insane. There are millions of two story houses using 2x4 first floor walls that are framed already and being framed every day. What in the world do they think could happen to the first floor? Regional thing I guess.Joe Carola
When that top floor gets yanked sideways (say from left to right) if it doesn't simply slide to the right (and the A.B.'s won't let it, hopefully) what it wants to do is rack (and the shearwalls won't let it, hopefully) so it rotates as a whole, causing uplift on the left side, and crushing down on the right. The hold downs on the left keep it from lifting up, but the crushing is resisted through the framing on the right side.
Like when you slam on the brakes, the front of your car dips and the back goes up. The struts or shocks can easily resist the normal load, but when you throw in that lateral/rotational force, they get compressed a lot more.
Those rotational forces can be much more than the basic vertical load of the building, (and they're added together). Maybe that's why.
k
Edit- Also, let me re-iterate I'm not the most experienced guy in the world. I'm long on theory and short on practice, and I have a bad habit of over-extrapolating from what little experience I've had. I once posted that there was no such thing as struc. 1 OSB, simply because I'd never seen it on any of the projects I'd worked on, (and I was a little drunk...) LOL.Edited 12/4/2009 7:53 pm by KFC <!-- KFC1002 -->
Edited 12/4/2009 7:58 pm by KFC
In the 2005 Oregon 1 and 2 family dwelling code that is based on the 2003 IRC, if i recall i found 0 reasons why you cannot currently build a 2 story structure from 2x4 16oc. Aslong as you can get the required r-value insulation.
My house is 2x4 2 story along with dozens of other homes in nieghborhood and probably tens of thousands in oregon alone.
Always seamed like a waste of lumber to me.
CA and Oregon may well have very different code requirements.
I'm kind of waiting for the California equivalent of Framer or Dieselpig to weigh in and set me straight... or even back me up!
k
Never done it or seen it done with attic trusses. How did you/do you beef up the headers? Is there an easy way or do you have to beef up each header in the wall below?
Read back in the responses.You can place new header material on the old top plates, leave the old headers in place, the ceiling in place and go up.Theoretically!
Sorry I am not visualizing this. Are the rafters kept back 1.75 or 3.5" above every window and door? and the header put on the end of the rafters?I realize I am not directly involved just trying to learn something in case I ever face it in the future. Thanks for any help.
Oh you're directly involved!
That's the beauty of this place. Just fire away and learn something.Yes, you are correct--although the old rafters, which run from plates to peak, have been removed and all that's left of the old roof are the ceiling joists.The original ceiling joists will stay, but ends be cut back to allow for the new header, which could be in thickness up to the width of the top plates--in this case 3.5" The joists could be cut back all the way beyond the wall provide they are hung off the new header with metal hangers. Don't need the hangers if you can achieve 1" of bearing on top of the wall.Cheers,
pat
Pat,What if the header that gets spec'd is taller than the ceiling joists and the top plates. Can you install the header on top and hang the truss?Joe Carola
yes.http://thewoodshedtavern.com. = no peer mods!