Replies

1. 
   oops | Apr 10, 2004 07:11am | #1

   Hey folks. How about some help. Did I put this under to wrong catagory. There has got to be a stucco expert out there somewhere. How about it. Thanks.

2. 
   SamT | Apr 10, 2004 06:36pm | #2

   None,

   If you can live with a visible line, they make an expansion strip tha can be used to join the old and new sections.

   If you want to "blend" the two sections together, do not cut the old, rather jaggedly break the old, remove all the loose pieces, saving as much of the old wire mesh as possible. Remove the colorcoat texture from the old in a wavey "S" pattern at least 6" from the edge.

   When done breaking out the line of the junction, the existing stucco edge should have areas where you will have to push new stucco under the old and areas where the new will be over the old. You want a lot of "Tooth."

   Tie the new stucco wire to the existing wire you saved and work the new paper backing under the old stucco.

   Apply adhesive admix to the old edge just before applying the new mud.

   It is important to remove all the texture so the stucco guy will have a smoth surface to "scree" the brown coat to. The "S" pattern allows the new texture to feater in better and helps fool the eye over any slight differences in texture between old and new.

   The ragged edge gives a MUCH better bond between the old and new and if any cracks do appear (unlikely with proper curing) they will be minimal and uneven so they will not attract the eye. Actually, there is almost no bonding with a saw cut.

   Do not allow the stuccoer to apply color coat until the brown coat has cured for 28 days under high humidity. However see "Proper Procedure" below.

   It is easy to prevent cracks in stucco or any concrete. It is hard to convince the contractor to follow proper prcedures.

   Proper procedure is; Scratch coat, keep damp for 7 days. Brown coat, keep damp for 28 days. Color coat. . . . OK, you have a %90 of no visible cracks 7 days after Brown Coating.

   Five weeks is why contractors will tell you that "concrete cracks." BS. They don't want to take the time required to do it right. Ca government construction specs 28 days between scratch, brown, and color coats. 2 months total time burlapped and wetted twice a day. Cementuous products crack from drying before curing. If they do not dry out until fully cured, they will not crack. Except from movement.

   SamT 

   Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it. Andy Engel

1. 
   spinnm | Apr 10, 2004 07:30pm | #3

   Sam,

   Since he's specing it for his daughter, what about a fog coat to blend the old to the new?

   El Rey makes a product called Krak-Master.  I've never used it, but it might have an application here.  It's fiberglass reinforcing mesh that goes between scratch and brown.  Have you an opinion about it?

   ShelleyinNM

1. 
   SamT | Apr 11, 2004 03:06am | #5

   SbPerki,

   fog coat is a new term for me, can you describe it?

   Krak-Master, a fiberglass reinforcing mesh that goes between scratch and brown.

   Sounds like a shortcut to not having to wait for the scratch coat to cure. Never heard of it but I'll bet it does not work as well as a fully cured scratch coat. After curing there is no way for the scratch to shrink, and the r r r rridges will keep a good shrink free bond to the brown coat.

   Maybe someone else has some experience with it?

   None

   Expert. Ex= used to be, Spurt = drip under pressure. Yep, that's me. I've had a little helper time with a friend who was a stucco and plaster master, and a lot of experience with concrete. And I've done a couple of repairs/remodels using his methods. They work!

   SamT

   Arguing with a Breaktimer is like mud-wrestling a pig -- Sooner or later you find out the pig loves it. Andy Engel

1. 
   spinnm | Apr 11, 2004 05:18am | #6

   Fog Coat is the name El Rey uses for it's dye.  Made to match colors.  Powdered.  Mix with water.  Consistency about like milk. Sprayed on.  It is a cement product, has a little grit and must be strained b4 use. Used to even out the color in situations like this....since the old will be somewhat dirty and faded.....or if the batches are not mixed consistently...or if the house was not done from the same dye lot....or if one is a little unhappy....but only a little....can darken a shade or two....that's all.

   I always use EL Rey since it's made here.  Imagine other mfgs have the same thing just call it something else.

   I've never used Krack-Master, but I'm considering it.  I always seem to wind up with places that eventually crack.  Agree with all you said and generally get away with sending the guys away...especially since I pay them between coats...and I keep it watered down for them.  Since my husband and I do all the work after the sheetrock and plaster are done...there's plenty of time.  Always try to put expanded metal in the normal places....but in a couple of years there are a few that I don't like and they're in places where I know there's extra expanded metal....usually a 45 coming from the bottom corner of a window.....or a place where adobe meets frame even tho I know the frame and adobe are bolted together and there's several feet of expanded metal over the joint.  Since the wood and the adobe are expanding/contracting at different rates....thought I might try this product the next time in the trouble areas.  Just to see if it makes a difference.

   I just haven't met anyone who's used it yet in this land of 99.9%stucco.  Most of the builders here  are fond of synthetic that looks like it was applied with a broom, along with house wrap, rather than stucco wrap.  I'm still doing 3 coat with tar paper.  Guess that makes me old-fashioned.

   ShelleyinNM

1. 
   sungod | Apr 11, 2004 10:32am | #7

   Fog Coat or Brush Coat IS the colored cement in stucco without the sand.  It is used to even up the color of a large stucco wall so it doesnt look blotchy.  A $11.00 bag will color a concrete block wall front, side and back and will not peel like paint.

   Look at any house with minor stucco cracks and you will find that it will be mostly on the South and West side.  If the sun or dry wind gets to it, it will crack.

   Straight line cracks in stucco follow where the wire AND paper is cut and lapped.  Paper should lap 6" or more, the wire should not lap at the paper joint, it should be more than an inch away.

   Wetting the old stucco where the new meets it will stop cracking there.

2. 
   oops | Apr 10, 2004 09:02pm | #4

   SamT. Thanks a lot. This is exactly the info I needed. I knew that  there was an expert out there.

   I'm just finishing the design of a Pueblo/Santa Fe style house to be built here in Fort Worth, Tx. and I've been concerned about cracking. This style architecture (lots of rounded surfaces) does not lend itself expansion/ contraction joints. I'm afraid that it will be a hard sell to do the 28 day between coats. I will advise owner. His call.

   I designed and built house in Santa Fe, NM. some years back. They say that the cracks show authenticity and character. It seems to be accepted out there. That job was my 15 minuits of fame. It made Souther Living magazine as an example of Pueblo/Santa Fe architecture

   Again, thanks to YOU and SBPERKI.