I am new to this forum, first post and I live in Houston Texas and plan to move to New Mexico next year. I would like to do as much of the labor on my home in New Mexico as I can. I have limited construction experience, and I took a three day class on Adobe Home Construction.
I have a Question, Here goes.
I would like to build a shed with clearstory windows. I would like to use awning windows about 4 feet wide. What size windows would work best? It seems to me that a width of 46.5 inches would fit exactly between studs (without any blocking) so a width of 46 inches would be a good choice. But I cannot find any windows of this size. What am I doing wrong?
Replies
No one makes awnings that wide. You will need to gang them.
Thanks for the post.
Doug
And Doug, most all the window companies, as you probably already know, have rich and deep websites, loaded with product information, including sizing.
Go to any of the sites and see. Andersen, Marvin, Pella, Kolbe and Kolbe, Windsor, Vetter, Eagle, Pozzi, Lincoln, Weathershield, Caradco, all of these have size detail available for their complete product lines.
Most of them list toll free numbers you can use to get a factory tech on the line, to ask them, "how wide will you make an awning?"
doug, happen to be looking in the pella catalogue. Shows awning window-3'-11", 4'-5" and wow........4'-11".
Hts starting a 1'-5" to 2'-5".
The R.O.'s are 3/4 bigger both ways.
Check all the window manufacturers, they're never the same.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Call Don Young windows,right here in Houston, 713-868-1389 Call me at 713-447-9452 (cell- days) ask for Dave... I'll help you if I can
Scribe once, cut once!
This is exactly my point, with studs spaced on 16’ centers, the opening between the 1st and 4th studs is 3’ 10.5 ‘ (46.5” is this correct?). A window 3’11” is too big. I would think the window would be 3’ 9.5” or 3’9.0” to fit in this opening.
Doug
Doug, like I mentioned b/4, there are no standards in window sizing from manufacturer to manufacturer. It's logical I guess then that there's even less sense in sizing according to layout. You'll find a bit more friendly sizes in some skylights. Written earlier also was this suggestion, lay out your walls, lay out your windows and doors, and fill in the gaps. Best of luck on your project.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
If you're considering vinyl windows, MilGard wiill supply EXACTLY the size you want with no upcharge....they're one of the better vinyl windows IMO and, in my area, the service is A-1.
Check with your local building supply yard and talk to one of the contractor sales reps.
Edited 10/18/2004 8:17 pm ET by Notchman
Anderson makes 200-series awnings in 36" and 43-13/16" ... I think those are outside of the frame sizes.
And they make 400-series up to RO of 6'-0 3/8"
Don't forget that you will need a header over windows that wide. Are you planning on stud spacing of more than 24"?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
First, welcome to breaktime!
As you see, people will answer your questions quickly and directly here, but you must also endure hearing people's opinions too :-)
So, second, if you don't mind me saying so it seems a bit odd to purchase windows so that they will fit into standard stud bays correctly. Normally, a house is framed to fit the windows, not the reverse. Also, I'm not sure if it makes sense to order custom windows for a shed. Granted, I've seen some finely built sheds, but still, economy is usually a prime concern too.
I have done limited framing, but it seems to me that windows would be made to fit into standard stud spacing with limited blocking. Studs are spaced on 16 or 24 inch centers to accept 4 X 8 sheets of plywood, so I would think windows would be made to fit the same way.
Doug
Doug, you are planning to support your roof with one 2x4 every 4'?
Your clerestory roof will require some sort of header running above the windows sufficient for the expected load. Parts of New Mexico receive heavy snow, I don't know where you're heading but you best know what roof loads to expect before designing this structure.
Once you have your load figures, you can size your header and the supporting members required at the ends and between the window openings.
Chances are, single 2x4s are not going to be adequate, so maybe you should wait before buying windows.
Joe H
Thanks for the post, there is little snow in this part of New Mexico, and that is something that I have looked into.
Doug -
Regarding windows sized to fit standard stud spacing - you'd think that they'd be standardized to fit 16 or 24 inch framing, but they're not. If I'm building new (I'm in the process of building a garage that I designed), I usually frame the windows in with one side against a stud (and a cripple) and let the other end fall where it may. Doesn't eliminate all the extra lumber, but I cut the extra work in half. This, of course, is if the exact location of the window on the outside of the structure or on the interior wall doesn't matter (aesthetics/architechtural integrity). If it does, it's always easier to layout your stud spacing on the plates and then measure to your opening and mark the king, jacks, and cripples separately. For two extra $3 studs, it's not worth the time/math/headache of trying to get studs and the opening to line up.
Cheers
JK
windows would be made to fit into standard stud spacing
That would make sense in a whole-building design concept. What happened is that the guys who made windows made them to convenient standard widths (like 2-0, 2-6, etc.) When those "guys" became companies, they kept doing things the same way.
So, now, "we" accept that certain things are certain sizes. Like a 3-0 46 window is a certain size, and fits a rough opening that "we" all understand.
Not that much different than a 2x4, which used to be 2" x 4" or thereabouts, then changed to a milled standard of 1 5/8" x 3 5/8", and today is (supposed to be) 1 1/2" x 3 1/2". A brick is 3x4x8 unless you measure it (2 5/8 x 3 5/8 x 7 5/8). Bricks, at least make sense, the numbers "even out" with a 3/8" mortar joint.
Oh yeah, welcome to BT <g>.
Your real issue, as I see it, is going to be getting a "short enough" awning window. From the top of the lower roof deck, you're going to want a couple of 2x for the sill (if only to allow for flashing under the window). You'll probably find 18" (1-5) is as short as most companies will make an operable sash. You'll likely need at least a 2x6 header, too, especially for 4' spans. That ciphers up to 3" + 18" + 5.5" is 26.5" and 29.5" with a double top plate over that.
Your (presumptively) 8' tall shed now has a 30" tall clerestory wall on it. That's 2 1/2' above the lower roof, is a quarter of the "wall" elevation height. If the shed is 10' deep, and we use a 3/12 lower roof, the "low" rise will only be 15", and then you'll have twice that in clerestory.
Now, I'm not trying to rain on the parade--this can work, just maybe not the way you're seeing it right now. We can "bury" the header and top plate together, for one, that saves some height (obviates the "standard" spacing, though). You could use a "barn" sash type window, and hinge it from the framing. Barn sashes can be smaller, as they are not expected to be operable in a self-contained unit. That helps some more.
So, there are solutions. Will offer this bit of bitter-learned advice, sketch out how you want the top roof to "sit" on the clerestory. Get a peice of plywood and sketch full-size, too. Include the trim (its absence on the sketch will help point it out). Do not forget the flashing.
Hope that helps (or does not confuse too much).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Thanks for the post, that is a lot to think about.
Doug, you are not correct about windows.
Glass is indeed made in uniform sizes. Their are only a few major players in the raw glass industry...and all of them make large volumes of standard sized glass panes. Then the window manufacturers wrap their wood sash and jambs around them. They don't give stuf framing centers any thought at all.
Vinyl window people are a different beast. A majority of their product goes to retro fitting into the old wood rough openings. They specialize in custom sizes...probably just have a bigger pile of scrap as they use the standard panes to get their stock.
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
Actually, Blue, Float glass is roled off at something like 12 feet wide or so, and a computer lays out cuts to amke efficient use of that space in all the multiple cuts that get made, then breakage left over as melted right back down again. they can size the glass any old wauy they want to.
I think one of the biggest basics in window sizing and design is proportion and usability.
In a certain height wall - let's say eight feet - the sill needs to be at least 21" off the floor ( 18" for some codes) for safety reasons, and the header determines the top height for structural reasons. The leaves an openning of about 5' and good proportion for appearances determine a width relative to that of about 3 feet, so we have a lot of DH 3054 or 3660 windows.
Safety, structure, ( remember wind desgn loading too), and appearance all influence window sizing.
But I find this novice's modular concept interesting anyway, even if irt focuses on the wrong priorities in wondow size and placement. I mean, how many studs can he use in an adobe building anyway?
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Doug, welcome. You'll have a lot of good advice here over the next couple years while you learn about your project.
the concept of yours applying modular thinking to this is worth considering from a corporate viewpoint, perhaps, but on your small scale, you need top ask yourself whether it is worth paying an upcharge of a hundred bucks per for custom sizing or just spending another three bucks on another stud like the rest of us.
Keep everything in context and don't try to change a whole industry, or you'll drive yourself crazy.
BTW, what is your career background. I'm not trying to be nosy, but just interested in whether your modular thinking cometh hence.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well I don’t know where my modular thinking (I didn’t realize it had a name) comes from, it just makes since to me to make windows to fit in between standard stud openings. To answer your question I am a Locomotive Engineer.
I did some looking and found this is not a “novice's modular concept” it is a concept to save building materials found in The Lumber and Plywood Saving Manual and Reducing Home Building Costs with OVE Design and Construction (the OVE manual), both available from the NAHB Research Center. Optimum Value Engineered.
Vinyl window manufacturers will fit any size window.
blue
Doug, unlike the CV that a house is framed to fit the window sizes, I have been promoting the fact that you can have windows sized to framing. Aditionally, if you want to save on header material have your headers cut in even foot sizes. I supply vinyl windows made to order. I would also look at using 2-2x's under each end of a 4' header (but that is just me).