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Discussion Forum

new vinyl windows, dollar bill test

cat | Posted in General Discussion on January 2, 2006 11:16am

I am building my own house on the North Carolina coast, aiming for an Energy Star rating, using SIPS. I’m shopping for low E, argon window with a great U and SHGC factor, assortment of casement and double-hung, a few awning, must have a DP of 50.

My brother-in-law is helping me build this and he says the best test for an airtight efficient window is to slip a dollar bill in the opening, close the window and see if you can pull the dollar out. Reasonable? Alside is the only one so far that meets the dollar and price test. I like the look and price of Atrium 500 and 850 and Marvin also makes a nice fiberglass-clad window. Isn’t this dollar test variable depending on how well the showroom displays their product?

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Replies

  1. davidmeiland | Jan 03, 2006 12:00am | #1

    Why not just read the air infiltration test results for the windows you are considering? I doubt they do the dollar-bill test at the labs.

    1. User avater
      Sphere | Jan 03, 2006 12:11am | #2

      Izzat kinda like a  kielbasa test before ya get married?  If ya can't pull it out, marry it...LOL 

      1. calvin | Jan 03, 2006 12:17am | #3

        Where in the hell do you come up with this ####?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.

        Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

        Quittin' Time

         

        1. User avater
          Sphere | Jan 03, 2006 12:24am | #4

          Dad..he always said " marry a girl with small hands, makes your...''  ah, never mind.

          Watched "Kinsey" last night, mighta had something to do with it. 

        2. Stuart | Jan 03, 2006 12:43am | #5

          I've always heard of using a dollar bill to test the door seal on a refrigerator, but not on windows.  I just did an online search and it does come up in a couple places.

          http://www.facilitiesnet.com/bom/Jan04/Jan04envelope.shtml

          http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/insulation3.html

          1. User avater
            Sphere | Jan 03, 2006 12:48am | #6

            I don't recomend google-ing the "keilbasa test". 

          2. cat | Jan 03, 2006 01:11am | #7

            thanks Stuart, I had seen those. the 'air-leakage' or infiltration measures listed on some of the manufacturer's websites refers to the quantity of air that can enter the home compared to the square footage of a glazing, the lower the number the better. even picture windows have a tiny number!seriously though, all of the windows I've been doing this test on can yield the dollar bill, some with more resitance than others - does this mean all the windows need to replace their weather stipping? hardly. guess I'm answering my own question. - go for the style I like and pay a modicum of attention to the measurable numbers

          3. davidmeiland | Jan 03, 2006 03:02am | #10

            With vinyl windows I would pay more attention to the fit and finish than anything else. Actually, that's what I'd say about any window. Scrutinize them in the showroom and ask if they have any back in the warehouse that you can also look at (since the ones in the showroom are probably better than average).

            You will probably find that the test results are fairly comparable for windows priced in the same range. Try to find a manufacturer that has a good record of delivering their product without defects and on time. Talk to the distributors you are dealing with and ask which lines have the lowest incidence of service problems. Talk to other homeowners and find out whether they have been satisfied with their windows.

            Milgard is a common brand out here.

      2. FNbenthayer | Jan 03, 2006 03:44am | #12

        Thanks Sphere, I think I just broke a rib! 

         

         

         

        The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski

  2. User avater
    skip555 | Jan 03, 2006 01:22am | #8

    dollor wont tell you much ,you need to use a 50
    then mail it to me and Ill look at the wrinkles left by the window and give you the rating

  3. junkhound | Jan 03, 2006 01:45am | #9

    Need to replace a couple of 'fogged' 30 YO insulated glass windows his summer.

    Going to replace with fixed single pane and magnetic strip 2nd pane aka "storm window" -- never will buy a IG window again unless reselling to some other schmuck at their insistence.

    Lotsa you will say that the seals NOW are better than made 30 years ago -  tell me that if Im still alive 30 years from now

    Biggest I got ripped off when building own house was buying insulated glass windows, many codes now require it - who got paid off???

    IG and vinyl is probably my biggest homebuilding peeve, rant, etc. at least the glass seals and vinyl frames probably will fail about the same time ---

  4. User avater
    Matt | Jan 03, 2006 03:37am | #11

    Personally, I'd depend more on the NFRC stickers than anything else.

    Here is another thought - re the double hungs - do you really need double hung?  Single hungs install with much less problems, and for obvious reasons result in much less air leakage.  I used to think that single hungs were only for starter homes, but the reality of it is that few people open their windows much these days anyway.  The install issues are particularly true of vinyl windows as the vinyl is just not as rigid as, say wood and the side jambs can bow in or out easily on double hungs - especially the taller units.

    Another thought is that I'm not sure of the longtime value of argon - since I think it tends to leak out after 5 years or so. 

    RE window ratings, I'd take a look at the VT ratings too - VT is basically how clear (or tinted) the glass is - some windows that have great solar gain  (SHGC) numbers are very dark - it's like being behind sun glasses all the time.  As far as air leakage, the good news is that with vinyl windows, even the cheap ones are pretty air tight.  IMO that fact, in itself, reduces the value of your $ bill test.  Besides, air leakage comes at the side jambs and meeting rail too.

    1. cat | Jan 03, 2006 03:53am | #13

      thanks for asking me to rethink single vs double hung, I'll do that. but VT is important for our location; we're likely to roast in the summer without strong shading, though the porch roof ought to take care of much of that problem.

      1. User avater
        Matt | Jan 03, 2006 02:25pm | #14

        I'm very familiar with your climate.  I live in Raleigh and we vacation at the coast. 

        I guess we are looking at the VT number in an opposite manner - I want good energy performance but don't want the house to seem dark, and I'd like to be able to see what the weather is like outside of the windows.  To me very dark tinted windows seem to "un-couple" a home's occupants from the outside environment.  So for me, a higher VT number is better - it's the same as so many other things: there are trade-offs.

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