Like a lot of others, I’m finding business has been pretty slow this spring. So I’m going to have to get out and do some bushes-shaking if I’m not gonna go teats up waiting for Godot.
In the past, I’ve found that flyers stuffed into the screen door in likely areas and business cards put in ‘Our Local Tradesmen’ racks on the counters in lumberyards, hardware stores, and tool-rental agencies bring in the most new business for the least money. So I’ve prepared a very simple flyer just to get people interested enough to go looking for more information, and I’ve built a ‘minimalist’ website to showcase my work in colour pics that I cannot afford to print in the flyers.
The flyer is nothing more than a list of the kinds of work I do (and what I know from experience people here need done). No photos on it at all, but it ends with the phone number and the following text:
Please visit our website to see photos of some of our work: http://www3.sympatico.ca/thr/CHALETSERVICE/GALLERY.html
So take a look, if you will, and let me know what you think. This is the first time I’ve done a website like this. I’d like everybody’s reaction.
EDIT: For those who don’t have time to read this entire thread but would still like to offer their opinions, please note that my website has been moved off the ‘sandbox’ server at Bell Canada to a real server (Fat Roman Web Hosting). It also now has its own domain name. The permanent URL is: www.chaletservice.net
Thanks.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice….
Edited 5/25/2008 12:15 pm ET by Dinosaur
Replies
Well my .02
The photo's are way to big. I have cable and it takes to long. The pics themselves are very nice. Your work speaks very well of you.
Maybe it's just me but I feel distant to you. Like an art opening with out the artist.
Hope that was helpful.
Thanks, that's the kind of input I'm looking for. But did I understand correctly that you have cable internet and it's taking too long for those pics to load? I'm on dial-up here; 38kbps. Load-time is something I really take seriously because of that.
Only one of those pics is larger than about 40KB. At cable speeds, they should load almost instantaneously.
What browser are you running? and did the slide-show run automatically or did you have to click through yourself?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I just tried it again, Some pop right up and others take some time.
Maybe, the server?
Let's see what others say.
Yeah I have cable, it's got to be a whopper for me to Waite.
It's gotta be that rotten no-good weak-kneed fat-arsed brain-dead junk-metal server. The biggest pic on that whole site is 120KB.
Stupid ISP. Good thing for them I'm not paying extra for that server space, or I'd be angry....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Next door was talking to the excavator about access and timing. Since the guy was still there I didn't ask any questions about us doing the remodel. Next time I see Rob and Anna-Maria I'll ask."If all women are crazy...I married their Queen!!!!"
You like the website? When you talk to Rob, give him the URL so he can look at the pics himself. So far all he's seen is my hairy face and a bunch of kids I brought with me to your place.....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I'll give him the url.
I also found that I wanted to click for the next pic. Being able to linger on some and zip through others."If all women are crazy...I married their Queen!!!!"
I also found that I wanted to click for the next pic. Being able to linger on some and zip through others.
I did think about that; but this is whatcha call the 'ooohh-neato-I-found-a-new-script-look-how-cool-it-works' amateur webdesigner syndrome....
So, heh, heh, I might have to actually go find the proper scripts to set up a slide-show that can be paused. Or just take the script out altogether. Right now, you can't stop it on a photo, only on the opening page or the contact info page.
At one point I was thinking of it sort of like a commercial--they play right through to the end without stopping. So...?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
This is what I was doing over the weekend.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=104797.1
Use the second post of pics. They are smaller."If all women are crazy...I married their Queen!!!!"
From the non tech side, I liked it. The arrow to proceed didn't come in to focus for maybe 20 seconds. Or maybe I didn't have it in the screen at first and rolled my mouse. But I have a 20" screen so it should be there. But the pictures mostly loaded fine with a few choppy coming up. Liked the work though. DanT
I have Comcast high speed and found the pictures to be too slow also. I'd like to see less background.
Pics load Ok on my satellite hook up, but on my LT, I need to hit the scroll to get the NEXT arrow UP where I can click it..maybe MY screen size makes that so.
Other than that, it IS a little Aloof, but I kinda like that, clean, stramline, No BS and stuff.
C'est Bon!
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Click away from here
Do not click here what ever ya do
Bad things happen to those who click themselves
There's a 7-second refresh/redirect script on those pages; if you don't do anything it's supposed to click through all 12 photos like a slide-show and then take you to the contact page where it stops.
It starts counting the 7 seconds once the page is fully loaded, so if that server hangs up while downloading an image, the whole page can be there for a while. Maybe it's not as elegant as a Powerpoint slide show, but this was a heck of a lot easier to code.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I have mentioned in other posts that I think a web site is very helpful when shopping around for a contractor. Glad you are doing it.
I have a high-speed connection so the pictures loaded up fast but you need to design it with the slow connections in mind. You should try and gets statistics on the speed of internet access in your area. If it's in the country and most people use dial-up, then you'll want low resolution images to show up first with the option of clicking on the picture for a high-res version.
I thought that the slideshow was a little too fast. I would get rid of it completely and let the user click on a "next" or "back" link only.
A section about you is always nice so that we can get to "know" you. Your name at least and maybe a short bio and maybe a picture.
You also have some spelling mistakes in French.
I don't personally like a black background but that's a personal thing. A lighter colour might be more inviting.
Other than that, it's a good start. Whatever you do, if you can't afford a professionally designed site, don't try to get too fancy. Keeps it as simple as possible and update the content regularly.
You also have some spelling mistakes in French.
D'habitude, mon eppelation n'est pas pire (les accents manquants à part), mais ce n'est pas parfait non plus. Si tu peut les indiquer mes erreurs, je peux les corriger.
Normalement, c'est Pierre1 qui pogne mes gaffes. Je ne savais pas que tu est bilingue aussi.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Notre site-web vous présente quelques images de nos projets. Veuillez cliquer sur la flèche pour démarrer.
Nouveau plancher de céramique pour la cuisine d'un chalet converti en résidence permanente.
Finition du sous-sol au complet avec salle de bain de luxe.
Salle de bain avec douche de luxe en briques de verre.
Transformation d'un vieux camp d'été en résidence permanente:Addition d'une rallonge de 6x20, un sous-sol complet, et un 2e étage.
Nouveau toit sur une maison centenaire.
Céramique classique 'metro' avec parements et baignoire en fonte re-émaillé.
Pavage de pierre naturelle pour une maison en rondins scandinave.
Salle de bain réaménagée au complet pour une retraitée qui s'installait dans son chalet.
Plafond à l’aspect tôle estampé pour un bureau-maison au sous-sol.
Remise de style 'habitant' avec une terrasse en bois et un hangar à bois.
téléphone
Merci. Je vais arranger tout ça après mon souper. J'ai oublié de dïner encore, maudit!
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I have high-speed internet, but it took a long time to load the pictures, which was surprising considering that they are not large. On the 6x20 addition, is that feet or meters? And if it's feet, do the canukians use feet also? I agree that the black background is a bit bland. I would like to see a border around the pages, or something to spice it up a little.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
is that feet or meters? And if it's feet, do the canukians use feet also?
Good one, Ed. Nice catch. I'll go fix that one right away.
Yeah, it's weird but in French we think in meters, while in English we still use feet/inches in carpentry and most things associated with it. Officially, though, the Imperial system is not used in Canada. Our building codes are all written in 100% metric. Drives me nutz, actually, cause I can never remember if the 38mm x 184mm designation for a 2x8 joist is nominal or actual....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I didn't go thru the whole slide show, but I was impressed with what I saw. On my 'puter, the pics did load pretty quickly.
Oh, and the conversion of an old shack to a year-round residence looked kinda familiar <G>
Starting a web site is something I've been considering. Problem is, I'm a complete and utter computer idiot. Plus I type at something just above glacial speed. I want one of those computer like they had in Star Trek, so I could just tell it what I want it to do. LOL
If you can come up with the basic content and mail me a CD of your photos, I can put something simple together for you. What I've done here for myself I'm looking at as temporary--to get me online quickly so that when I pass out those flyers tomorrow, people will have something to look at beyond a one-page photocopy.
I think they like knowing someone who's gonna ask them for a 4-digit deposit check is serious enough to have a website of some sort, too.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Thanks, but I'm not quite ready yet to make that jump.
Right now, my regular customers are keeping me busy enough that I'm not looking for many new ones. I've got one that's got me working on 3 of his homes. Nice having rich clients that trust me.
Nice having rich clients that trust me.
That's the kind I'm after.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
TH - my $.02.
What I've learned from SamT, Fatroman, JohnT8 and others I can't remember right now:
1-Make a home page that does nothing but welcome visitors and direct them to the rest of the site.
2-get a lot of text describing your operation on the homepage. Web crawlers will find it and index it and increase your chances of being found.
3- Thumbnail your photos and let the viewer click on them to see them better. Slide shows are nice for family gatherings, but if I'm looking for a roof on my chalet, I don't wnat to sit thru a bunch of bathroom pictures and vice versa.
4-fill up the page above the "crease". I like the look of your site, but it doesn't tell me much about you or your operation.
Good luck.
edit: Are you resizing your pix or letting the website software do it? Option #2 slows loading down considerably.
http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Edited 5/21/2008 8:59 pm ET by seeyou
Like some others, I have cable and the rather small images are slow to load. I'm not refering to the 7 sec. rollover. I mean once it starts rolling over, or when I use the arrow, I'm staring at a blank screen for too long.
Your work looks awesome from what I can see, but those small photos aren't doing it any justice. What you need is a real photo gallery software with clickable thumnails that are all displayed on the same page. That way the visitor can choose those they want to see more of, rather than having to thumb through and not know what's coming up next.
Are you using a software or is it simple html pages? If you need a software there are several really good ones for free. Menalto Gallery is one but probably too big for your needs. There are some others but I'll have to look them up, don't remember what they're called off hand. Whatever the case, all those I know of require your server to run PHP. Your provider may or may not have that available to you.
Anyway, I'm ranting on because you gave me an idea. Wanna make a deal? I'll post my proposition here in the business section in just a moment. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Are you using a software or is it simple html pages?
I write HTML fairly well, but I use Dreamweaver to build webpages. That refresh script, for instance, is built into it.
This website is a departure for me. It's deliberately minimalist. Usually, I throw everything in the kitchen sink into a website, and my main problem is keeping the navigation simple enough the user won't get lost.
At this point, I don't have the time to create the editorial content to go with each photo, because I'm going to distribute the flyers linking to that site tomorrow. Eventually, I could flesh the whole thing out and have all sorts of happy-busy clickables to keep surfers interested while they admire my stuff.
But.
But, I remind myself, in this business the website doesn't make any sales. Nobody's gonna click on 'new roof' and then proceed to 'my shopping cart' and 'checkout'. In this biz, the builder has to make the sale, and he has to do that in person.
All I am counting on that website to do is to pique the prospect's interest enough so he'll lift the phone and call me for an appointment. That's why the slide show stops on the contact page, and that's why there's nothing else on that page to distract the user. It leaves him nothing else to do but make the phone call. It's like the end of a TV ad: the voice-over guy repeats the phone number that's on the screen. Message? Make the call!
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Yeah, I guess I focused too much on the website and the size of the photos. But you're right, the objective is that they make the call, which your site should well achieve.
I use my old DreamWeaver 4 and don't know a whole lot beyond the most basic html and css. It's surprising how much one can do with the help of wysiwyg editing. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Oh, yeah; if you're running Windows XP, you might have a voice-recognition program somewhere in the guts of your OS. Look in Programs/Accessories/Accessibility. It's for handicapped (blind) users. Speak into a microphone and it types out the words for you.
Or is that the other way around? Can't remember. CRAFTS strikes again....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
You might also consider adding meta tags to your web pages so that they get indexed by search engines..assuming of course that Sympatico allows web crawlers to index web sites on their servers.
This is useful if someone is trying to find a contractor and types "Mont St-Sauveur contractor log home" in Google. Add as many descriptors as you can in your meta tags and Goolge yourself (not by name but description) every once in a while to see if there are any hits.
Read here for more information http://www.webreference.com/dlab/books/html-pre/43-0.html
yeah, like SeeYou said :-)
I could have sworn I put the keywords in the headers of those pages, but, duh, that was last night when I was working on a different version. I made a new page template this morning and forgot to plug in the keywords and all the rest of that jazz.
Silly me.
I don't know if Google et al. actually search www3. I've put a few inconsequential sites on this server but have never bothered checking to see if they were searchable. I oughta try that with this one, tho....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
One way to help google along is to submit a sitemap. You can create an account with Google and use the webmaster tools to submit it. The biggest advantage is that you can log into your account and check all sorts of stats, like hits, backlinks and such.
https://www.google.com/accounts--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
TH, the problem with the loading is not because of your picture.Or your code.It's your server.Find a cheap one, elsewhere. The server you have, is using a 3 legged squirrel, in a wheel that is missing half the crossbars.
Politics: the blind insulting the blind.
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
The server you have, is using a 3 legged squirrel, in a wheel that is missing half the crossbars.
HA! Good one.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Actually, me and the Fat Roman have discovered that it's really a couple of breadboarded Commodore 64s hooked in tandem with booster cables, and it's running a very early free-ware version of Apache, Version -0.001 IIRC.
Bell Canada's dirty little secret....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"it's really a couple of breadboarded Commodore 64s hooked in tandem with booster cables, and it's running a very early free-ware version of Apache, Version -0.001 IIRC."That's even worse than the three legged squirrel !
Politics: the blind insulting the blind.
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
It ain't getting better either.
I've just redone the pages to concord with some of the suggestions everybody made last night. No more automatic slide show; everything fits on one screen; the FWD/BACK buttons are right up where they can be seen easily; and I remembered to put in the meta tags this time, too. Not that they'll do any good while it stays on that stupid Bell server....
I'm going offline now to make a few phone calls. Want to see how much it'll cost to register a new domain name and put an 800 phone number on it.
Later.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Chaletservice.com is already taken. I goggled "chaletservice" to see if it would point to your site. No such luck. Went through many pages. SOL."If all women are crazy...I married their Queen!!!!"
Chaletservice.com is already taken.
Yeah. But not by me. I own the sympatico e-mail address for that, but the .com domain name has been held by a domain-name broker since Dec of 2005 for some weird reason.
Whatever. No great loss. I was actually thinking dot-ca until I found out the 'national' domain extensions cost 40% more to register than .com or .net (and do not permit the use of private domain registration which I need to keep the QCC outta my hair.)
.net was available, so I went with that. You'll find the new and much more reliably-served Chalet Service website at http://www.chaletservice.net/.
The photos oughta just about pop outta the ether for you guys on high-speed now.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Much faster!!!!!
I tried to google Chaletservice.net but got nothing yet.
I think you would have to submit it to google. http://www.google.ca/addurl/?hl=en&continue=/addurl
"If all women are crazy...I married their Queen!!!!"
I tried to google Chaletservice.net but got nothing yet
It's only been up on Steve's server for about 45 minutes. It'll take the Google-bots a couple of days to find it on their own.
At least I got the toll-free number hooked up and the website organised so tomorrow (Friday) I can stuff those flyers into some cottage doors for their owners to find tomorrow night when they arrive for the weekend.
And the new, shorter URL will help a lot. As Jon pointed out, few people are gonna type in a 3-yard-long URL by hand.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Just sent your web Addy to Rob my neighbour!"If all women are crazy...I married their Queen!!!!"
then this crappola happens...
NEW YORK - The lack of high-speed Internet access in some areas of the U.S. has been hotly debated, even as that digital divide has narrowed. But a new, wider gap is being created by technology that will make today's broadband feel as slow as a dial-up connection.
Much like broadband enabled downloads of music, video and work files that weren't practical over dial-up, the next generation of Internet connections will allow for vivid, lifelike video conferencing and new kinds of interactive games.
just ain't fair.....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
people will click that address, but they won't type it in. Too long. Need something like "chaletservice.com" Is it worth it to pony up for the domain name? Don't know.
Marine Enginneer
people will click that address, but they won't type it in. Too long. Need something like "chaletservice.com" Is it worth it to pony up for the domain name? Don't know.
You have a good point. I'm looking into that now, before I go get those flyers printed.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Just got Ryan's letter to Ian in the mail today."If all women are crazy...I married their Queen!!!!"
Cool. I only mailed it Monday, LOL. Postes Canada must have hired Luka's three-legged squirrel.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Well, I'm going to be blunt. Pics load way slow on DSL. Painfully slow. Pics are blah. A steel roof, no pizazz. Basement ho-hum. Now I know you, and the work was probably perfect or better, so I know you can do better on the pictures. Best pic was probably of the bathroom, but really, the trash can with a towel on top of it kinda spoiled the effect.
Add a shot of you in the blue speedo, that would surely liven up the visual interest.
Best pic was probably of the bathroom, but really, the trash can with a towel on top of it kinda spoiled the effect.
Laundry hamper, not trash can. I put that there on purpose to prove somebody actually lives there.
_____
I guess if I had 30 grand worth of camera gear and could throw the client out of her home for a day while I shot it, I could get the kind of pix my editors at FHB shoot for the mag. Unfortunately, what I've got is 30 grand worth of tools...and a $200 pocket digital. Sometimes, ya gotta make choices in this life.
It's also real hard to convince a client to let you spend a day (or more) photographing her place after she's waited so anxiously for you to be done and gone.
90% of the pics I take on jobs are process shots of the unfinished stages. These are usually shot after the day is over when the client is not on site and I don't have a crew hanging around on the payroll waiting for me. Sometimes I post those here to illustrate points posters ask about, but mostly I use them for magazine article development or client progress reports. They're not meant as brag pics other than to guys in the trades. To potential clients, they're meaningless.
The other 10% are snapped after the job is done and we're in the process of final cleaning up of the site, usually in the last 10 minutes before we roll outta there. I do the best I can under the circumstances.
But...thank you very much for your opinion. It's been noted.
I did ask for it, after all.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
FWIW the quality of the pics is very good, it's just, no zing.
Well, 'zing' is a matter of taste.
I've always rather liked this one, actually:
View Image
If ya look reeeeeeeal careful and concentrate reeeeeeal hard you can just see a hint of Loni Anderson's right front shock absorber through the glass blocks.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Much faster now. I didnt want to mention it but, there is some strange french gibberish on the bottom...
got to the end....
(had some other viewers looking over the shoulder....)
blue tarp in the yard and no windows....
go take another pic of yur place....
but the toilet seat up and hamper dampered the effect...
email link didn't open....
guess it's a copy and paste deal at best....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
The e-mail link is working for me. Anybody else have trouble with it?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
when I clicked on it yur site closed and it opened my browser....
the rest was up to me...
did an email come thru??? used the copy paste method...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
when I clicked on it yur site closed and it opened my browser....
the rest was up to me...
did an email come thru??? used the copy paste method...
Weird, that. No special coding around the e-mail link.
I'll go check that e-mail account to see if a message came in. I don't have it set up to download automatically yet. One more thing to do, sigh.
But i gotta split now and hit the village before the stores close. Back later....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
"Courriel"? Like "courri(er) el(ectronique)" or something?They didn't really have that when I took French...Anyway, the new site is MUCH faster than the old. And given its purpose (for use with the flyer), I really like the simplicity. It does exactly what it's supposed to.Rebeccah
"Courriel"? Like "courri(er) el(ectronique)" or something?
Precisely! Give yerself a cigar!
A rather nice constructed word, actually. Most computer-age word inventions I find offensively inelegant, but this one works quite well.
Anyway, the new site is MUCH faster than the old. And given its purpose (for use with the flyer), I really like the simplicity. It does exactly what it's supposed to.
The speed improvement is thanks to the Fat Roman's whiz-bang server so I can't take any credit for that. But thank you for your compliments on the design; that's mostly me...with comments from this thread to help me see straight.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I like your Ideas but 3 small points.
The pictures seem kinda small to me , I understand you think about the people with slow connections. Im deffinatly not a computer expert but I post ads for stuff I sell and I can take my 7 megapixel pics and resize real low I think you said yours were already small but the picture can be real big and still look good (big in comparison to the screen size) I have a new computer with a 20 in monitor and the pics are about 2x2 cant really see them good enough for me
The black backgroud - I really dont like it - makes it feel more like a myspace page not a high end homebuilder, I also think it has a lot to do with why I think the pictures are too small, way too much black
Some of the pictures werent comming up? couldnt tell if they were taking a minute to load or not there, so I minimized it and did something esle went back and they still werent there, also the arrow does move around like someone else said.
I hope I dont sound too harsh but If I was doing this I would want everybody to open it up and say wow!!! not have a hard time navagating it or looking at stuff.
IMHO the overall design could be improved with more stuff on the page not just blackness and some small pictures.
From what I can see you do good work and care about what you do or you wouldnt be here, and people need to see it. Im just trying to point out what I see and what I think any customer would see, I thank you for reading this and having thick skin (dinosaur skin).
Well put. Thanks for your input, danno. No worries about my dinosaur skin getting shredded, LOL....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I would like to have a link if you do change anything(I assumed thats why you started all this) because I googled for it but couldnt find anything. THANKS
The URL given a few posts ago is the permanent one: http://www.chaletservice.net
The www3 address I posted at the beginning of this thread should be ignored. The root site of that one is where my ISP gives me a free 5-meg 'sandbox' (what they call 'personal web space' in their sales lit). It's no place to put a serious website.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
For some reason, the ceiling shot seems slow to load, while the others are fast.
For some reason, the ceiling shot seems slow to load, while the others are fast.
Was that on my 'sandbox' site, or the permanent one on the new server under its own domain name (http://www.chaletservice.net). The ceiling shot was originally a 120kb pic, while all the rest were between 25 and 40kb. When I moved the site to Fat Roman hosting, I re-edited that ceiling photo and saved it at 10kb. It should load pretty quickly now.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
That was on the new site. My DSL is fairly fast, so it was noticeable. I don't have a clue how it would be with a slow connection.
Weird. I'll double-check the remote site to make sure the replacement pic actually got uploaded properly.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
That's what it was; my FTP client didn't overwrite the original photo with the reduced file size one because I had it set to discretionary settings ('overwrite if newer').
I fixed it. You should be okay now.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
what link are we using now????
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
The short one.
But it doesn't really matter as I put a 'this page has moved' and a redirect script on the other one. Just so new people who come in at the head of the thread won't wind up in the sandbox and waste their time looking at problems that have already been fixed.
You were right; the arrows jump up and down just a tiny bit between some of the pages. It's because a few of the pics are vertical format and without shrinking those down to the same height as the horizontal format pics--which would make them too small--I can't avoid that problem in the present format.
So, I'm either gonna put in a real slide-show script which will just change the photos and leave everything else static, or do the same thing manually by using a frameset.
Gimme a coupla days. The flyer has already generated a couple of demands for quotes and I gotta get those out tonight and tomorrow. That's the good news....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I don't recall which platform you have your web site on but did you know that your friends at Microsoft provide a free version of MS Visual Web Developer 2008 Express to help you design your web sites ? Lot's of wizards and templates to get you up and running in no time.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm using Dreamweaver MX, which is a few notches further up the web-development food chain. Flash, Fireworks, Javascript, Cold Fusion, you name it, it's in there.
Still, the temptation to go nuts with that kind of stuff is dangerous. Too many designers get seduced by their tools and lose sight of the goal...which is to communicate with the viewer, not drive him goofy with blinking ads and MIDI sound effects and animated gifs.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I immediately click out of any site that starts any of that stuff. Most of the stuff isn't allowed to play on my computer anyways and there's no sense in me being annoyed by popups asking permission to do something. The answer is NO! So, when the stuff pops up, I Alt F4 outta there! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Exactly. So do I.
What I purely hate is when I really need something, but the company that makes it has hired some whiz-nerd to build one of those sites. Especially the ones that demand you download the latest flash program so you can see their site 'properly'.
Makes me want to spit electronic nails....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
set the placement of the foreward arrows so thet they don't need to be chased after every picture or put them in a field large enough so that you don't need to hit the arrow exactly....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Those arrows are in the same place on every page, so I can't figure why you have to chase 'em. The only thing that changes from page to page should be the photo and the descriptive text.
I think the image map for the live click zone around those arrows is something like 35x80 pixels for each of those arrows.
Did you like it better when it was on automatic?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
with out moving the mouse/cursor... the arrows for 3 pics had to be chased.... most times the arrow had moved from the cursor but the cursor was still in the field....
doing this on a LT....
like better on manual....
can you offer both???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Given enough time to do nothing else but search the innards of the software I'm using, I have a feeling that anything is possible. There's a lotta bells and whistles and gimcracks in that thar program. I am only scratching the surface.
But (so far) I don't make my living building websites. Maybe when my knees give out, my hair turns white, and I can no longer carry 2 sheets of Durock up a 20-foot ladder in the wind while rolling a smoke in my other hand....
Heck, it'd probably take that long to learn that entire program anyway.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I couldn't see anything on the page too. But, don't worry too much about my lack of access. I'm notoriously fast with the "x" out button becuase I have a lot of switches shut off on my computer and I often encounter sites that want, or need, me to allow something to happen and I just say no. I'm not that interested. At one point, I didn't even allow pictures to load or show!I'm guessing that your server was too slow delivering the content. If that is the case, you probably need to make as much impact on the front page with as few bytes as you can muster. If you are on a slow server, you want the basic info to pop out asap, then offer thumbnails of pics that may be of interest. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Blue, the site is now being hosted by the Fat Roman, and his server is very definitely not on the slow side. Even with my pleistocene-era dial-up service here I get no more than a 1-1½ second load-time for any of those pages.
Did you use the URL in the first post of this thread to go look, or the new one (http://www.chaletservice.net)?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I had used the original. This latest version was fast enough for me. The concept of hitting the arrows was simple enough too. They wandered a bit but I'm okay with that. I didn't like the black background and white font. It's hard on my old eyes. Id soften the entire scene a bit. Black projects darkness and mystery. I'd add more explanation of who you are and what your services are. The opening statements are good but it's very easy to add content that explains that you'll do more than what your pictures tell. I'm a big advocate of putting all the contact info on every page. You've only put links and the name and logo and that seems to be connected with the written description of every pic. Somehow, I'd try to create more separation, either by space, location, color or shape. If possible, offer blowups of those pics, even if you have to send them to a third party site for the larger files. You can store tons of pics like Tim does. One of the annoying things is that if I'm looking at the third picture, and I hit the "contact", I'm locked into hitting "home" button which forces me to cycle through the pics again. At this time, there aren't many pics, so the annoyance is minimal but to dialuppers, even that little bit might be too annoying. Food for though, from a guy who hates looking for stuff on websites. I don't understand most of them. I don't know how to navigate them. Most have too much info, or not enough. So, don't worry too much about my opinion. I rarely find websites that I can hang in and actually explore and understand them. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
you think KISS...
what other way is there to be????
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
All good points, Jim, and that's exactly the kind of feedback that'll be useful to me. I need to see that website as others see it...not as I see it from my own point of view.
Right now, I am using that site as nothing more elaborate than a cheap and easy way to deliver colour pics of my work to the same people who've already received the one-page B&W flyer I'm currently stuffing in screen doors in the appropriate neighbourhoods.
Over time I can and probably will flesh it out with full text descriptions of each of those projects, but because it has to be done in both French and English, that'll take time. I will actually have to build two complete sites; one in each language. They'll be unified only by the home page where there will be two links--one for the French pages; the other for the English pages. This is the way it's done here, and since way better than half of my potential client base does not speak English at all, sending them to an English-only website is akin to spitting in their face. Not a good way to make friends and influece people....
Even though I write French pretty well for an immigrant who learned it late in life, I still make grammatical mistakes. But I'm an absolute galvanised hard-arse about not publishing anything with spelling or grammar errors in it. Nothing makes a company look so unprofessional as bad grammer or spelling in its advertising.
The problem is, French grammar is much more complex than English; it's almost impossible to soak it up by osmosis. You really have to study French grammar in a formal setting and memorise all the rules and all the exceptions and understand all the different parts of a sentence and how it must be structured, or you'll trip yourself up without even realising you've done it. In conversation, this doesn't matter that much. People here are very forgiving that way, and lots of the errors which would show up in writing are undetectable when spoken (for instance, forgetting to put the second e on the end of a past participle to make it accord with the feminine noun upon which it acts). But when an obvious grade-school-level gaffe like that is printed in your ad, and sits there staring your reader in the face, it really makes you look stoopid. (And who wants to hire somebody stoopid?)
Grammar is one pitfall. Usage is another.
Bilingual people tend to be subject to what you might call inadvertant linguistic cross-dressing, LOL. You want to express an idea and there's an expression you know which does that well. So, you translate that expression from one language into the other. If you've got a decent vocabulary in both languages, your translation will make sense to you and you'll be happy with it. But it will make sense to you only because the expression means something to you in its original language. The translation will not necessarily (and usually doesn't) make any sense at all to someone who only speaks the second language.
Example: A Francophone might want to say in English that he's been convinced of something by someone else's well-put arguments. In Quebec, we have a very common saying which means just that: Tu m'a vendu ta salade. But when you translate that into English--which is very easy to do--it means nothing that makes any sense in the context.
It means, "You have sold me your salad."
Moral: For anything that matters, I've learned to always run my written French through somebody like Pierre1 (who used to be a professional translator).
So, for the time being, I'm on hold for text for that website. I've got a lot of other stuff that needs doing and Pierre's in his busy season, too. Right now, the only changes I'm gonna make on the site are small stuff: diddling with the graphics a bit; adjusting spacing; changing the link structure so you can go click back to a specific pic instead of having to go through them all in order again; adding Flash-buttons and stuff like that to make it look less 1970s; maybe adding new photos as I get time to drop by clients' places with the camera and take some.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
>>>>If ya look reeeeeeeal careful and concentrate reeeeeeal hard you can just see a hint of Loni Anderson's right front shock absorber through the glass blocks.OOH OOH cool! I see it!
OOH OOH cool! I see it!
Careful, brother. Don't sprain anything. You might have to swing a hamnmer tomorrow....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I think it would be worth getting an easier to remember URL and probably worthwhile to host through Godaddy or one of the major hosts since you seem to be having difficulty with the server response (though I myself host through a local travel agent...)
Also I think the black back ground is a little oppressive, lighten it up a bit and add a little more text, most folks are there to look at pictures on the first visit so that's the main thing but I also think it's good to have a "how we work" section for the second visit as they consider picking up the phone and calling or sending an E-mail.
My landscaper has a great section like this on her website http://www.greenstonegardensnc.com/dialup/index.php?id=policy which inspired the one I have on my site which I admit is way too wordy (which is why I directed you to Geneva's site first) http://www.chandlerdesignbuild.com/index.php?id=work&t=How%20We%20Work
As far as promoting the site I've had great response with photo postcards with the URL and contact info. I do really pretty pictures and have even left them in card racks at stores alongside the cards for sale. (I don't do that any more but it got a lot of pretty carpentry photos onto peoples refrigerator doors and home files who contacted me years later.)
I've also underwritten the printing cost of a local non-profit's newsletter ($350) in return for a note of appreciation and listing of my website on the publication. It's a good way yo "give back to the community" in a way that lets your clientèle know your there for them and how to get a hold of you.
Be well
M
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
Your landscaper has designed, perhaps, the best site I've ever visited. On that first page, she sets the tone from the very beginning. The first impression is compelling. In very few words, I know precisely what her services are. They are listed on the tabs! Then, she comforts me by telling me that they have "Our Policies" which reeks of organization and gives me confidence in her. The overall presentation is easy becuase she hasn't tried to wow me with flash, pizzaazz, mystery etc. That tells me shes confident enough about her product that it will stand on it's own.The font and layout and background is artsy enough to sell me on her ability to design, yet not pretentious. Shes also presented the various pages of information in a format that we are very familiar with: the tabbed folder style. It is very easy to navigate and she even manages to beat Bill Gates at his own game because unlike his, her tabs remain stationary and I always know if I have already looked at at particular page. My only beef is the picture section. If there's no pictures, there shouldn't be a tab.I'm giving her an A+-. The minus will turn into a plus when she posts one pic! I'm going to mimic her design. Oh yes...I really appreciated that she wasn't wordy....unlike some people (like myself) I know ;). Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Actually if you strip off the dial-up on her URL you can see that she has a splash page at the entry that allows the user to choose high speed or dial up http://www.greenstonegardensnc.com/ I think the pictures are caught in a redesign project they're doing this month. they were up a while back and I'm sure will be back soon. Her web guy is Jack Walker here in Chapel Hill who also does my site. M------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
I think it would be worth getting an easier to remember URL and probably worthwhile to host through Godaddy or one of the major hosts since you seem to be having difficulty with the server response
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=104831.47
most folks are there to look at pictures on the first visit so that's the main thing but I also think it's good to have a "how we work" section for the second visit as they consider picking up the phone and calling or sending an E-mail.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=104831.69
My landscaper has a great section like this on her website
Thanks, I'll take a look at that site for ideas for the future.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....