I am trying to decide on new windows for a new vacation home being built on a remote lake in Canada. I am looking at metal clad or fibreglass exterior with wood interior. My dilema is not knowing what is the best kind of wood to go with for the climate. The cottage will be south facing, so very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter.
I have narrowed down to:
1. Marvin Integrity fibreglass with Pondersa pine interior
2. Weathershield metal clad – which there are 8 wood species to choose from – Fir, Hemlock, Maple, Pine, Knotty Alder etc.
3. A local fibreglass manufacturer – but only comes with oak interior
I really like the fibreglass windows, but am not sure if Pine will stand the test of time(Marvin) – but don’t really like the grain of oak (local) and then don’t know much about Alder, Maple, or Hemfir??
Any suggestions?
Replies
Gee, with a clad window, I don't think you have much to worry about in terms of longevity of interior wood. You will of course need to protect the wood with polyurethane or something.
For any species other than pine, check and see if the window uses a veneer instead of solid maple, for example. I'm guessing they would use veneers for the more expensive woods. For longevity of wear, I would prefer solid wood, even if it is pine.
If the exteriors are clad, and the wood 's only on the inside, it really doesn't make a lot of difference which is used.
Pine has been a standard for windows and doors for hundreds of years, with an excellent track record. When exposed to the weather, it does need to be maintained.
Fir is another wood good for exterior use.
White oak is an excellent outdoor wood. Red's OK.
If it's just the inside, pick whatever wood you like best. And buy the windows from a manufacturer who will be around if there's a problem in the future, and will honor any warantee.
Thanks, I guess maybe I am stressing on the interior wood choice for nothing. Warranty is huge - which is why I am leaning towards a local firm, rather than Marvin or Weathershield - both of which are produced in the US and new to Canada in my area. If the Canadian dollar goes back down, and the US $ up to levels it traditionally has been - I would suspect that at some point the US manufacturers would not be viable in Canada. Tough to get service & warranty if they are no longer in the Canadian marketplace.
The main Marvin manufacturing facility is on the Lake of the Woods--literally on the Canadian border (extreme North MN). About 1/3 of the workers there are Canadian (bused accross the border each day. The closest large town is Winnipeg and they have been selling Marvin windows there as long as any place in the US.Marvin just won the JD Power award for customer satisfaction among builders and remodelers:http://www.marvin.com/?page=JD_Power
Anyone read that article about the seals around the edges of insulated glass units being sensitive to changes in atmospheric pressure?
Apparently if an insulated unit is made at one altitude, then installed at another, the difference in atmospheric pressure can affect the lifespan of the seals.
Or even if the unit is transported through a significantly different elevation, like say driven across a mountain range, it can have an affect.
I don't know how accurate that article was, but I try to use locally made units whenever I can since reading it. Can't see any reason to not be as careful as possible.
Driving through a high elevation is no prob, but keeping it there requires capilary tubes.
"It is what it is."
I've heard this before (or very similar)...
Maybe 10 years ago I was told that a particular mfg of window (can't remember which one) was having a lot of trouble with changes in altitude making the argon leak out of their windows making that "feature" largely useless.
There was a guy here a month or 2 ago. If I remember correctly his job was testing windows - almost like he worked for the NFRC or something... We need to get him to weigh in on this specific topic. Anyone remember him, and the name he went by?
Matt,
Are you thinking about Oberon? Very knowledgeable about windows and glazing.
Ron
A search tells me it IS Oberon. Thanks.
Do you know anything about altitude changes causing window seals to leak?
A significant increase in altitude from IG manufacture to unit installation can result in a seal leak because of the higher air pressure inside the IG versus the air pressure at altitude.
Some companies publish the maximum altitude that their windows can be installed
I was told, Fargo ND is where the Infinity line is manufactured. Warroad, MN (by Lake of the Woods) does the metal clad. I live in Winnpeg, and emailed Marvin, who put me through to the Canadian rep in Calgary, Alberta (13 hour drive) - there doesn't seem to be a Winnipeg rep. I may drive to Fargo (about 4 hrs) to actually see the windows - glossy pics on the interenet & catalogues only go so far. Feedback seems to indicate Marvin Integrity is a good line and I am leaning towards fibreglass over metal clad.
It is true that Integrity is made at a different plant than the Marvins, and also true that there is some minor effect from large changes in elevations.The canadian Lepage line have a better U rating than Marvins.
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Thanks, I will check out Le Page. Anyone know much about Accurate Dorwin or Duxton fibreglass window?
You might want to check out Loewen windows. We use a lot of them with aluminum clad exteriors and fir interiors. They are made in Canada.
Thank you, I have had a quote from them - beautiful windows and the plant is 45 minutes from our vacation home. Problem - they are very expensive. I am sure you get what you pay for, but they are about 30% higher than all other quotes I have had ( Weathershield, Jeldwen, Marvin) - but alas, due to foundation problems, which has gobbled up a huge amount of my budget, I think they are out of my price range.
You're saying the Loewens are more expensive than Marvins? I have found the opposite.... hmmmm.
could have to do with the exchange rate on international trades
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It looks like there are 8 Integrity dealers within 100 miles of Winnipeg (but all on this list are over the border). One dealer should be about an hour away:http://www.integritywindows.com/default.aspx?page=where_to_buy&p1=&p2=winnepeg&p3=MB&p4=&p5=50&p6=256&p7=-1&p8=0
Edited 6/19/2008 9:35 pm ET by basswood
Yes, all across the border, but the few I have contacted have a limited showroom,some with only the wood metal clad, which I why I thought I would take the drive to Fargo. The Calgary rep tells me that if I actually buy in the states, I if I need service /warranty issues it would be a problem as US service people can't come across the border. Not sure if that is true or not - or if he is just protecting his turf. I think I will try to call Marvin HO direct.
Since some you seem pretty experienced with windows, it seems that each manufacturer has slightly different rough opening sizes. Do you think it is a problem to have the crew frame to the drawing specs, or do I need the windows decided on before they start the frame up to account for the small differences?
Edited 6/19/2008 11:07 pm ET by confused2
Definitely decide on the windows BEFORE framing begins.
If you go with the drawing specs, you'll probably have to have some re-framing done before the windows are set. It'll be much cheaper to have things done once. <G>
And this goes with any other decision that needs being made. The builder needs to know what you want in a timely fashion, so construction can continue without undue delays.
I'm not saying you would hold things up, but I've been involved with customers that get so neurotic about making a decision that they slow down the whole job.
That's what I figured. I am neuroitc, and have reached the stage of total analysis-paralysis with this.
Don't worry about the Marvin warranty. The distributors take care of that. If the dist. goes out, Marvin has a national service crew.
"It is what it is."
Marvin integrity
You don't want high maint in a vacation home
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Don't know where you are in Canada, I've just ordered new windows for my cottage in norther Ontario. Went with windows from a company called Boneville, believe they are headquartered in Quebec. Went with Aluminium clad exterior, pine inside. They offer different hardwood interiors. Look to be a pretty good windows.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
I would also go with Marvin, but I do understand your dilemma.
Those are good too, I think now marketed as Le Page
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Look at the NFRC ratings (local windows should also have things like U-ratings and DP-ratings).
I'll bet the Canadian-made fiberglass windows come out way ahead.
confused,
If you intend to use this place in the winter, go with a Canadian product. I've seen Marvins installed beside a cheap, glazed, Canadian made door and the glazing in the Marvins was covered in condensation while the door glazing was dry.
Ron
It will be used somewhat in the winter. We will have geo thermal heat system (lake loop) to heat. Condensation is an issue - which is partly why I am concerned with wood species on the interior - somehow I have in my mind that pine is soft, will hold the moisture & rot faster. Thanks for the feedback.
The water did not condense on the cheap glass b/c it was warmer and it leaked more air than the Marvin.
"It is what it is."
Chicago Mike,
There was no condensation on the door glazing because its glass surface was warmer than the glass in the Marvin Windows. You are perfectly right. That means the glazing in the $350 door was better than the glazing in the $500 Marvin window, which was dripping water. No other interpretation is possible.
Air leakage was not a factor.
Ron
Marvin Integrity. You will not regret it. The wood is on interior, you'll be fine. I've installed dozens of them and they've held up fine.
Got any you installed even 20 years ago?
I'm not saying they aren't great windows. I'm just looking for a little perspective on what "holding up great" means in life expectancy. Seals in insulated units that fail after 20 years sounds bad to me - maybe not FOR me because I'll surely be dead by then, but they'll be a liability to the building.
Are we all so willing to accept products that fail in less time than it takes to pay off the initial mortgage?
Edited 6/22/2008 11:40 am ET by jimblodgett
Jim,Years ago, Marvin used to make their own insulated glass panes. Now they come to the Marvin factories from Cardinal Glass (among the best in the business).Brian
Farthest back I can go is around 15 years, and they are just fine. We moved twice, two states away.
I'd just add the wood species on the interior probably doesn't matter if maintanence is kept up as even lowely pine will last for longer than any of us.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Canada has some of the better window companies in North America. The latest and greatest is fiberglass frames foam filled with wood veneered to the inside. You can choose between different types of verniers. You can stain them any color you want. The cool thing about the fiberglass exterior is that if you don't like the colors offered they are easily painted and the paint lasts pretty long.
Can you share the names of whom you refer to? The only fibreglass manufactures I have come across only have oak interior as the option. As the cottage is primarily pine, I can't see oak fitting in.