New with framing nailer-any suggestions?
MG911
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
I just picked up a Paslode impulse framing nailer and would appreciate any tips or suggestions for working safely with this tool. I’ve heard of people putting spikes through hands/fingers/mouths…you name it. Some is just plain stupidity but some could be from lack of experience.
The manual is fairly generic and would appreciate some information or tips from those of you that work with these types of nailers every day. The one deceiving thing I’ve noticed with the Paslode is that the nail comes out aprox. 3/8″ away from the tip which could be deceiving if nailing close to the edge of a material.
I look forward to hearing from some of you……..Mike
Replies
I took a paint pen and marked the nose piece tips to remind me where the nail will appear.
Just treat it like a pistol and show good gun handling safety technigues - it's always loaded, so don't point it at anything you don't want to destroy - and keep finger off the trigger until sights are on the target.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Thanks ToolBear..a product rep. told me the same thing about marking the tip.
I guess I know the basics (i.e. never point at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot) so perhaps I'm looking for the not so obvious hidden dangers......or do's and don'ts.
Mike.
don't get into a hurry.
pay attention to what you're doing.
Most accidents seem to come from having your free hand too close.
usually you are going to have to hold a board in alignment. If possible ... don't reach "in front" of the gun. Try to hold a foot up or down on the stud.
sometimes ... holding directly "in front" is required. Just put your hand as far back as possible. Also ... shoot straight.
letting the gun slip one way or another will help the nail blow out. Had a helper that was always blowing out the framing and splitting the wood. After watching closer ... he looked like he was afraid of the gun ... and would turn his head right before firing.
turning his head ... turned the gun ... and it blew out the side.
I made him slow down ... and wear safety glasses. He was "too tough" to wear them before ... but was also secretly afraid of the gun!
Just pay attention and it'll be fine. Practice first in scrap.
watched an "experienced framer" shoot himself right in the palm. From across the room I saw that his hand was exactly where you'd not think to put it ... and he was shooting a long nail into a 2x and a 3/4 board. Thot ... he can't be "that" stupid can he?
I was wrong! held his hand flat on the 1x .... he wasn't looking around or reaching over anything ... just shot the nail straight thru 2 boards and into his hand! Company paid his bills then fired him asap. Not very productive and clearly a danger ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Hi Jeff.....that is exactly the kind of info I am looking for. For some reason I think the lawyers that write the instruction manuals assume WAY too much. When is the last time you found practical information in a manual?!
One thing I have found dangerous with my brad nailer is on occasion, the nail with hit something and curl right back towards me through the stock. Fortunately I have never had it go through my hand/finger but there certainly wouldn't be any time to react. Have you ever seen a framing nail/nailer do this? Say hitting a knot or something in a 2x4?
One other thing I've found is the Impulse is very loud when firing so I'll be looking into some hearing protection also...so is my impact driver now that I think about it...and my angle grinder.
As for glasses.....no excuse not to these days.......they've come a long way.
Nails can an do curve and come out where you don't expect them--they can hit knots you may not see, or other nails, or metal. They also can go right on through soft wood, or glance off edges if you don't get a fairly square hit. Another thing to be aware of, may not happen with an impulse gun though, is sometimes the gun will double fire. That's why you should shoot the lower of the two nails first when nailing studs to plates. If it doubles, the gun will kick up and still put the second nail in wood instead of in you or down range. The only time I got wounded with a nailgun was when it double fired. I was using the gun left handed (I'm right handed) and was holding the stud with my right. Just before I fired I had an inkling and slid my hand farther away. I shot the top nail and it fired twice and the second nail went into the back of my finger above the second knuckle. I was wearing gloves and my hand was about 16" away. The nail point just barely went into the bone, so it was no biggy, pulled it out and being a wimp, stopped to put a bandaid on it (boss said, "Why, it's not even bleeding!) before going back to work. Naturally it hit my trigger finger.
Others said it, and you know it, (so did I)--keep your finger off the trigger until you want the gun to fire. One time I was absent mindedly moving to the next spot to nail and had my finger on the trigger and as I scooted forward on the floor I kicked the nose safety of the gun and put a 16 penny up to the head in the sole of my boot parallel to the bottom of my foot. Missed me by about a quarter inch, if that. Like I said, I knew better. After that I kept my finger alongside the trigger, just as I do with a firearm.
It's a gun so you have to treat it like one. Always treat it like it's loaded and don't point it at anything you don't want to shoot. They don't fire if your finger is off the trigger. Many folks get shot by brushing against the gun with a finger on the trigger. Never have any body part in line with or close to where the nail will shoot. Misfires and ricochets can happen. Always wear eye protection. Watch out for the kickback, especially in tight spots like between joists. Take your time and place your nails, don't try to be a speed shooter like you see on TV. Stay back from the ends and edges a bit so the nail won't split the lumber or blow through. Mark out your nailing lines, it's easy to miss by 1/8" and not know it. When nailing thin materials like sheathing, make sure nobody is behind. Nails could shoot right through OSB if you miss the framing. Never try to unclog a stuck nail with power to the gun. Use the correct nails for the gun, the material and pay attention to loading. Don't use it when civilians are around. Make sure it is secure when you have to set it down, you don't want it to go tumbling. I don't think the Impulse nailers have an exhaust but if they do make sure they don't blow in your face. The nail that is most likely to misfire is the last one in a clip, keep clips or coils clean and unbroken. Lubricate and clean as the manufacturer recommends.
When working with some of us pneumatic gun users, go work in a distant part of the house. We can't stand listening to those whiney Impulse guns and will give you a rash of crap.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hi Hammer.......can you read this from way over in your corner? ;) Points well taken....I think there are a few tools that should require licensing/training before being sold but we all know that is a logistical nightmare. I mean, I bought mine from Ebay - who would police that? Perhaps one should require a license to buy the nails or butane though?
Anything that can shoot projectiles like these tools demand a ton of respect. I wonder how many young summer students are going to injur themselves or others this summer because nobody trained them on proper use of this tool.
Up until just now, I was thinking how much faster our Habitat for Humanity builds would be with framing guns.....but I now realize why these tools aren't found on site! Yikes....can you imagine??
One important thing I have found--this is with a pneumatic nailer, but the same idea applies to the paslode--is that when the gun jams, the FIRST thing you do is remove the air hose (or the fuel cell in the paslode, if that's possible). Clearing a jam involves working very up close & personal with the business end of the gun, and you want to be very, very, very, certain that the thing isn't going to go off in your face.But probably the most important thing is to wear safety glasses! I see so many people using these things without that most basic of safety equipment...my gun (bostitch N88RH-2MCN) is a great tool but the little plastic coallation strips get ejected with enough force to get my attention when I get hit in the face by them.Just be sensible and always remember you are dealing with a tool that will easily shoot through skin, muscle, and bone and treat it as such--you'll be fine if you do that.Tom
Just to echo what others have said, especially Buck and Hammer. Don't be in a hurry, just take your time and think where the nail is going before you fire. As others have said, treat the nailer as a gun. If you ever pay attention to SWAT teams or Special Ops military teams, they always have their finger off the trigger until the second they are going to shoot.
I've seen people get into trouble in a few ways. The most common is that they have the gun on bump fire and they just go crazy (and much too fast for their ability) and nail everything in site, mostly subfloors, roof decking, etc. In the going crazy they forget that their hand is right there and .....
Another problem people have is with the balance of the gun. They are not heavy but most have some adjustment to the weight and also being able to accurately control where the tip of the gun will land. You will be much more comfortable at first using the sequental trip, depress the tip of the gun, then pull the trigger (I think paslode only comes that way)
The other accident causing issue is where people either carelessly or because of the weight (control of the gun) have the tip land half way on to the piece you are nailing. This will allow the gun to fire but the nail will only graze the wood and fire like a bullet. I was helping a few friends put up a second floor and a newbie know it all was using the gun to nail the subfloor to the rim joist and a another friends girlfriend was cleaning up below. He hit the edge of the plywood just enough to trip the bump fire but still only grazed the wood. He did this twice before I could take the gun from him and get that girl out of there. The girl didn't even know two framing nails missed her head by 2 ft at a range of about 10 ft. I have about 6 or 7 more stories like that about the other newbies over that weekend.
Newbie with bump fire nail gun equals DANGER
Most accidents happen when the gun is in the bump-fire mode, and the guy has his finger on the trigger all the time. Shouldn't be a problem with the paslode.
The smaller finish nails tend to get turned sideways more often than the frasming nails cuz they are lighter guage. Sometimes yoiu can read the grain and anticipate it, but it always surprises me so I try to keep my fingers farther away than the length of the nail.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Edited 6/24/2005 1:42 pm ET by Ed Hilton
Well, I have one, and will echo most of the advice here.
-- always wear the safety glasses. it's really easy not to wear them sometimes with this gun, as you can pick it up and immediately start using it. The last time I didn't wear them, a piece of something shot up and hit my cheek bone; too close for comfort.
-- The impulses are alot safer than pneumatic guns, IMHO, since they cannot be put into bump fire mode. That's what causes the "nail in head" type of accidents.
-- Pull the battery before clearing a jam. Thankfully on mine, jams are very rare. I buy the Paslode brand nails if that makes a difference.
-- Don't try to install joist hangers with it. Paslode used to make a verison of the Impulse with a "positive placement" tip that would let you do this (I have one), but don't try it with the standard tip.
-- As others have said, keep the free hand away from the tip. Nails hit knots, etc., and sometimes do funny things, like curl around in 180 degree bends.
The only thing I can add is don't use it it awkward positions. If you're on a ladder, in cramped quarters, etc, and have only a few nails to do, go with hand hammering or a palm nailer. Guns are for jobs that require lots of nails.
-- J.S.
I read the replies above and think you got lots of good advice.
read the directions
keep that gun clean
be aware of and never fire into or close to a knot
normally a nail will not travel farther than its length and set. So if your using 3'' nails never ever hold closer than 3'' 's (plus the set)
learn to use the depth adjustment
Heed the advice posted by the others
The only advice I would add applies to nailers that have the bump fire capacity.
The most dangerous circumstances that I encounter are when I get my gun into tight spots, like a stud span that just barely fits my gun. When I shoot the gun, it causes the gun to recoil and bang the stud behind it. The gun then instantly bounces forward again and causes a double fire. Sometimes the nail will land directly on top of the first nail and then anything is possible.
Of course, since I'm old and aware, tight spaces are a danger sign to me.
One more tidbit: if you're crazy enough to use your gun to shoot nails into hangers and other metal, then tilt the gun slightly away. This causes any nails that miss the hole to richochet off into space, or at the guy that you don't like.
Errr, strike that last comment.
blue
Thanks for the information - I know my tool doesn't offer the bump fire option but still demands a ton of respect.
Looking forward to my next framing job........Mike.
Mike - I have both the Paslode framer and the finish nailer for a couple years. Keeping them clean is a big thing. Recently a buddy of mine told me that his instructions said to remove the gas if the gun is not being used for a while - the battery of course, but the gas too. He claims that if it's not being used, the gas being stagnant somehow builds up/gums up the works. I don't remember seeing that when I went thru the book, but I may have just been too quick in reading it. That might explain why mine quit for no good reason on it's own. (I don't use it daily).
The nailer has some uses that are really good - using or nailing into old wood being one time it's appreciated. Enjoy.
btw ...
just re-read and even thought I saw Paslode, the first time ...
I missed "impulse" ...
I had my paslode air-gun in mind.
2 lines of thot on the impulse ...
one ... might be safer ... as it sits around useless due to one malfunction or the other and you resort to an old hammer and nails.
other thot ... might be more dangerous ... as you get more and more frustrated with it non and mis-firing and push to get the damn framing done!
Keep it more than clean ... keep extra batteries charged ... keep more than enough "fresh" gas on hand ... and when it won't go .... don't push it ... get out the hammer.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Hi Jeff. Hey... I was seriously considering buying a Paslode Impulse framer for punchout type stuff after we've pulled off a frame. You've really had that many problems with yours, huh? Is that typical? (Of the gun, not you :)
They're hit and miss I've been around some good ones and I've seen others that, well made Jeff think this way. I know a trim guy who uses them daily and doesn't really have any problems ever. He cleans them on a regular basis. We have had a framer around for a couple of years and its stiil a good reliable gun, doesn't get used everyday though. I bought another one about a year ago that was a lemon. It got stolen . . nobody cared, including me.
I have to laugh when I see--"clean the gun on a regular basis"--the carpenters I know don't remember to recharge their cordless tools' batteries, don't drain water from their compressors, don't replace dull blades in circular saws, so regular cleaning seems like a remote possibility!
I hear you Danno, I fall into the compressor trap myself. That takes real discipline, but the batteries and especially the blade change are things that would drive me insane. And as far as cleaning the gun, I got that from a trimmer in the suburbs who uses the Impulse guns exclusively. If you need them to make you money and if you don't clean them regularly you'll just end up bitching all the time and telling everyone what a piece of junk they are. Although I have noticed that there seems to have been lemons in the crop that I have personally been around. On a daily basis we use compressed air because we have power readlily availiable.I was teaching a kid Zen carpentry a couple of years back and I would give him these humorous quirky expressions to keep his interest and also serve as a learning tool, sort of kernals of wisdom. One was, "Dull blades are for those other guys"
I never bought one.
I worked for a design/build firm ... the crews did everything ... from foundation up ... no concrete ... no roofing ... but all the framing and finish.
Out of 10 or 12 carps .... 4 or 5 of us had air nailers ...
the rest had the paslode impact's.
For pick up work ... they'd probebly be OK.
but even guys that broke them down all the time and cleaned them shiney ....
always ... and I mean always ... had problems.
Ya really notice who's gun is working when it's a 3 or 4 man crew and yer the only idiot still working because one guy has his whole gun in pieces ... the other is standing there waiting for his to cycle again ... and the other guy is looking for a "fresh" cartridge of gas or wondering why his extra battery doesn't hold a charge.
I shoulda spent the $300 so I would have had an excuse to stop working too!
Don't get me started on nailing off sheathing ...
I'm not a big fan of loaning out tools ... but just to keep the freaking jobs moving my air gun would become the company gun.
as an "extra" occasional slow and easy use pick up gun ... probably worth having ....
But as the only gun .... absolutely worthless.
year or so ago I had a helper who's only gun was an impact ... I went to the used tool store and bought an old boat anchor ... all beat to hell ... looked like it'd kill ya ... but it actually worked ... kinda ... and gave it to him. It was a miserable gun to use ... I bought it with the intents of keeping it as my back up ... used it once and hated it ...
but unlike those impacts ... nails actually shot out of it on a regular basis.
I know Paslode has upgraded the impact a coupla times .... first ones were black, I think ..... then orange. I was around both of them ... been about 4 or 5 years since I touched one ... maybe they've improved them again since?
Buy one ... let me know if it's safe yet.
actually, I don't do enough framing to warrent one .... but I am keeping a very close eye on the cordless/hoseless finish guns .... haven't heard all good reviews on any one model as of yet ... but when someone get's it right ... I'm there.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
The Impulse framer is not a bad gun, but on the other hand, it's not a great gun either, at least when compared to conventional air framers. We have one that is maybe 5-6 years old that we use for renovation stuff, and it's worked very well. The problem is it is persnickedy -- meaning that you should undo the battery and disengage the gas cartridge before you store it away. But the main problem is you have got to keep the innards clean -- at least if you want to have any chance of reliable performance. You pretty much have to spend a half an hour disassembling the guts of the gun, and cleaning the black muck that accumulates from the gas. If you're using the gun with any regularity, this cleaning procedure should be done once a month or so. If you're willing to spend all this time messin' and cleanin' -- in exchange for moving around without a hose/compressor, then it would be worth a buy.The good news is, that from a strictly performance point of view, it does just as well as a conventional nailer. Finally, used in an enclosed space, the gas smell is pretty acrid. I'm not bothered by it, but some others are.********************************************************
"I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
-- Herb Caen (1916-1997)
Even though I treat mine with lots of respect (treat it as you would a gun, trigger finger control, etc.) the other day I almost shot myself in the pancreas.
Short version:
Be very careful when laying a gun down on a ladder top, or on a shelf or beam....the trigger might get pulled in the process.
Long version:
Last week, while nailing from a step-ladder, I put the gun down on the ladder's top shelf, nose toward me (duh), to adjust the workpiece.
When I went to grab the gun, I noticed it had slipped a bit, and the trigger was now hung up (in a fully closed position) on the shelf corner. My gut was a couple inches away. If I'd hugged the ladder, my gut would have pressed against the nosepiece...
This was a lucky reminder that these things are no different than real guns.
Second tip:
Avoid having your head/face/mouth in line with the gun's firing axis. If the nail rebounds off a buried steel plate or bolt head, the gun will be pushed back hard right in your face.
with pneumatics earplugs it goes with out saying that ear plugs are a must. especially when you're back framing and get the echos from all the wall around you. I don't know how loud those Paslodes are.
Make it a habit of nailing at an angle. creates better holding power as opposed to straight nailing. Also, you never know when the odd nail may poke thru the other side when nailing studs together. nother worse than getting a slash across the palm of your hand from an errant nail of some newbie who has nails poking thru his double studs.
Thanks again for all the feedback and advice.
I do have one last question on framing nailers in general...
What would happen if I were to be toe-nailing a stud to a bottom plate on a concrete slab and I shot the nail at too steep an angle - too close to the bottom plate. Would the nail simply pierce the concrete and continue in it's original direction or should I expect the nail to dangerously curl back??
Has anybody had disastrous results with something like this?
Thanks in advance...Mike
I helped out a friend on an older house and it had some strange things going on. One was a part of the foundation that jutted in over one section for no reason. Any way, I shot one 12d nail in and hit that concrete, that was the last time was casual near cement. The nail will not penetrate at all. Once it hit the concrete, it stopped and curled up like a question mark but with a few more curves. The impact will be on your hand and wrist since the energy of the impact need to go somewhere and your hand/wrist is weaker than the concrete. If it happens to you once, you'll be more careful. It not that it was a near death type of thing, but it wasn't fun. Not to mention your gun won't take too many of those types of mistakes.
Hi DDay, thanks for the heads-up. I kinda figured that if the nail doesn't penetrate the concrete, the energy has to go somewhere and most likely back at the operator.
I hope everyone has a chance to see your post.
Mike
Are any of the new rechargeable-battery nail guns framers, or are they all finish nailers?
Powers fastening is coming out with a new full round head (gas) gun in Sept. Here's a link...http://www.powers.com/No real info on the site yet, just a pic of the gun. Saw it in the new Tools of the Trade. Don't know if a gas one will work for you.
Edited 7/20/2005 6:24 pm ET by gregb
Paslode has a framing nailer in their Impulse line. When it works, it's great. But the thing has to be cleaned fairly frequently.********************************************************
"I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
-- Herb Caen (1916-1997)
That's the gas powered gun that has been discussed as unreliable... correct? There are also guns that are strictly battery powered and operate using a flywheel. I have only seen finish guns like that.
Yup --- After hitting the "post" button, I realized you probably know all about this Paslode.I don't know about "unreliable." We've used one for maybe three years, and any problems have come about only because we weren't fastidious about cleaning the thing. It does foul up (because of the gas), and if you are using it every day, it should be cleaned at least once a month. Some don't mind, but it's really more hassle than I care for.Since we got a smallish compressor -- that's easy to lug around, and big enough to run a framing gun -- and a 1/4" polyurethane hose (Flexeel), I really prefer a conventional framing nailer.********************************************************
"I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
-- Herb Caen (1916-1997)
Would the nail simply pierce the concrete and continue in it's original direction or should I expect the nail to dangerously curl back??
Expect just about anything but it going straight into the concrete. It may curl back, it may bounce off and go down range, it may bounce back at you. I, or someone else probably mentioned to shoot the lower of the two nails first when nailing studs to plates--that way if it double fires, the second nail will still hit the plate and not go off into space above it. Keep your other hand at least three inches away from the tip of the nailer.
Guess impulse nailers don't have this problem, but the exhaust from the Pasload I used to use would sometimes blow my hat or safety glasses off. Any dust nearby always seemed to be blown back in my face.
I have just recently purchased the same nailer. I work full time as a Paramedic and have seen far too many injuries resulting from carelessness with power tools, including Framing Nailers. They do have the potential to do great injury and can be as fatal as a pistol. As long as you are aware of your surroundings, wear safety glasses and ear protection, make sure you only press the trigger when your nailer is in direct contact with what needs to be nailed and keep your hands away from the nailers tip you will be fine. Also make sure that you read all the safety instructions, this sounds lecturish I know but you are working with a dangerous power tool. Also make sure that nobody else uses the tool exept for people that know what they are doing. I usually take out the battery and fuel cell when I am not around the gun, that way any idiot who likes to goof around can do so and not get hurt. And always remember he nail comes out slightly behind the tip.
Keep your free hand back an inch farther than the length of the nails you're driving, be aware of knots in the wood whick may cause the nail to curl and NEVER make it a "hot" gun by bypassing the safety mechanism, have witnessed a couple chuckleheads in my time make the gun hot and then have accidental discharges. Those safetys are there for a reason and it's not just to protect the weekend warrior, just like the blade guards on circular saws, they're on there for a reason and should never be bypassed......
If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....