hey y’all
what do you do in the event you cut yourself and go to the er and your boss doesn’t have any workmans comp? just wondering cause it’s been a year now and the collection agency is calling non stop. matbe you guys could give me a strategy to deal with this situation. i’ve thought about threats of violence but then remembered the fact that i have two kids that need food and clothes.
any help to me would also help my family.
thanks
i p you bring up a point i forgot to mention. i am not a sub but just an everyday employee. when i said i was going to the carpenters union with this he told me “i will say that i layed you off prior to the incident and i will get the h.o. to say you were not there on the job and will tie this up in court for a long time.” and told me that i should “take one for the team”. also said he would give me the money in weekly installments. its not a family member either. on the other side of the fence work is slow for us in il. and i do need the steady check and the benefits for one of my kids. i feel like i’m stuck here. dont mean to be a whiny little boy but when you screw with my family it brings out the “evil” person in me. i will talk to him again on monday and give him three more days to take care of this. anyone got any things i can say to help with my case here?
again any help helps my family also
thanks again
Edited 3/18/2005 9:20 pm ET by mightyJIM
Replies
Wow, Jim. Do you still work for this guy ? Did he pay you for the work time you lost ? What does he say about the hospital bill ? The hospitals bill aggressively, and the buck stops with you, the patient. But I wouldn't have been nearly as "patient" as you've been with the boss.
Must be your father in law.
Greg
Illinois Workers Compensation
Employees
What is Workers' Compensation
Employers
Failure To Obtain Workers' Compensation
At the very least your boss should pay the bill. Thats his responsibility. It sounds as if he's not all that responsible though.
You could sue him and I doubt it would get as far as court. I think a letter drafted by your lawyer instructing him to pay the medical bills AND the legal fees incurred on your behalf would suffice.
I don't know what state your are in, but call the local state employment commission and I think there lawyer would like to have a little chat with your boss
You bring up a question that I've been wondering about lately.
I've recently found out that my boss does not have workmans comp on us employees. Down here in Texas your not required to though.
Was wondering if most other states require workmans comp.
Doug
Minnesota does.
Ohio does also. DanT
I am in New York, and it is not statutory (required by the law of the state) to have comp. An employer is exposing his personal assets and those of his business, to huge risks, by not carrying it.
If you are employed by a general contractor who subcontracts portions of work, I am amazed your employer doesn't have comp.
If you are employed, however, by a contractor who is performing as a subcontractor to a general, I am not surprised to hear that your employer does not have comp.
That situation is common with some of the subcontractors here, and when it occurs, the GC is hit up by his own carrier for coverage of the uninsured sub. Carpentry being one of the highest risk trades for jobsite injury, it can cost a GC here almost 22 percent of his uninsured carpentry sub's gross payments, at WC audit time. And the check needs to be written right there.
I employed a couple uninsured subs in the past, but I never will do it again. They tell you at deal time that they have coverage, then show up without it. Try and get the other sub, the one with coverage, then, when you need him. Forget about it.
That is like you, going to buy a new pickup truck for $20,000, budgeting for it, putting the money aside, and then having to pay $24,400 to get it out the door. Kind of a hit, huh? Where does that extra $4,400 come from?
Who will pay your medical bills if you whack off a finger or two, or trip over a paintbucket and break your wrist, or walk into something that puts out an eye?
If your employer doesn't have comp coverage, you need to be concerned. A little meeting between you and your cohorts, your boss, and the GC guy ought to be in order. Maybe the GC is picking you guys up, and everything's OK.
But maybe not.
Gene
This all just came to light in the last few weeks.
Texas does not require WC, and my boss is not carrying it.
I work for a cabinet shop, We do work for GC's and HO's alike.
Down here I don't thing any GC's have employees, everybody is a sub!
An employer is exposing his personal assets and those of his business, to huge risks, by not carrying it.
If he's incorporated and rents a building how is any of his assets exposed. From what I understand he gives himself bonus's in order to keep the cash out of the business. Nothing but a lot of used machines in a rented building.
I have a supplemental insurance policy. I think it covers 60% so I'd make it(also have a wife that makes good money), but I don't think any of the other employees have anything. Did I tell you that its Texas!
That 22% sounds about right for carps around here as well. I've heard that he might be able to get the shop help at about 15% because of the height(or lack of it) issues for someone who only works in the shop. Installers would be at the 20+ %.
Counting the boss and the part time office help there is only 8 employees, I've talked with all the shop/installers, some were a little disturbed to hear this.
Doug
Here is a link that is written in reasonably good manner.
http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/consumer/consum38.html
"Take one for the team"...that's a good one.
You say bill collecters are already on you, just for the ER visit or other bills get behind?
Here[VA.], comp pays maybe 2/3 of your check. Am not sure as I've never gotten hurt...knock on wood.
Have seen another 'lead' loose everything he had from an accident. Comp did'nt kick in for a few weeks and the comp checks were'nt full paychecks.
Already,he's behind.So what happens if you take everyone's advice, sue this guy,etc. and your bills are taken care of.
If this guy is still in business afterwards, you still gonna work for him. You will be on his s..t list.
I didn't do it....the buck does NOT stop here.
Rich
Thanks for the link.
Yea I'm not a fan of W's but I cant blame him, he didn't do it.
That's why I have the supplemental insurance. I'm the only one in the shop that does have any kind of insurance.
Again Thanks
Doug
If you are interested in more information on this you might want to go over the busines folder on the JLC forum.This often comes up. Two frequent posters are Alan Edwards who is a spec builder in Texas. 100% subs. And Dick S(forgot the last name) who builds in California where the insurance companies won't cover him unless he uses mostly inhouse employees and you need a license to get a license to just to find out how to get licensed for a trade. And then is a separate license for installing a hot water faucett and a different one for cold water.Interesting to watch the discussions.But WC comes up all the time over there.
This is an interesting subject and conversatioon here too. As an employer I don't even know for sure what my state requires, because I have never been foolish enough to try working anybody with out a policy. Still, I'm sure that many here do without it, because I have had two minor injuries with two different guys. They went to two different treatment facilities and both times, the office there caled me to ask if I wanted it turned in officially or wanted to pay it cash straight up. Seemed a standard matter of policy for them.In my former life as an employee, I have had WC claims four times I think in my life. Florida, Texas, Colorado, and Maine. In each case, I got the shaft to some minor degree, with CO the worst and Texas treated me the best.. maine state seemed most proactive in eeing that i gort right treatment froma state level POV. Texas ins company did it right just because it was the right thingh to do. CO was looking for a way out of paying from the word go.
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mu guess is that they ask that because evn though contractors have the coverage, they may want to pay straight up to avoid insurance rate hikes. If it's a small claim it may be more cost effective to keep the insurance company out of it.
Or maybe there are quite a few with no coverage.Tom
Douglasville, GA
Bill
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll take a look over at JLC.
Doug
Thanks for that link. I thought WC was required for all but sole props in Texas. Here's a quote from that web page: " In fact, Texas is the only state in which purchasing workers´ compensation insurance is truly optional for most private employers."
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Edited 3/19/2005 3:42 pm ET by Ed Hilton
doug.. i'm pretty sure texas is unique.. maybe one or two others.. so much for the "rugged individuals"..
makes me want to puke Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
mighty jim..
i think you should take one for the team also..
the team would be every working man who ever got screwed by a boss
your boss is a schmuck.. i'd find another job fast and then turn him in to the authorities..
and sue his sorry #### to boot..
you'd take one for the team by making an example of him to any other employer who wants to screw over their employees.
WC is so basic to the contract between employer and labor , without it we might as well be all working in the 1890'sMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
In NC, you must have WC insurance if you have more than 2 employees. The company I work for has it and I'm not allowed to hire any subs unless they provide us with a current certificate of insurance showing WC and liability ins. Our book keeper has a computer program that won't let her generate a check to a sub unless we have the certificate on file, although I'm sure you could "lie to the computer". Matt
Was he paying you as a sub contractor? Did you have a contract with him for the work you were performing? If so then it is your responsibility to provide your own workers comp in most cases. However if he was paying you hourly then giving you a 1099 at the end of the year then you may have a case. Either way if you want to be compensated for your injuries, then you will probably need an attorney. Start now with documenting all that has happened with your injury.
What were you working on
When were you injured
How did it happen
Did your Boss offer to help financially
Did you ask your Boss for financial assistance
The more you have in writing, the better off you will be in court, if it goes that far.
When I was a carpenter in Ohio, one guy I was subbing from had a carpenter who was injured on the job. The guy went to the hospital and told them who he worked for and the Bureau of Workmens Comp found the guys Boss and made him pay for his employees medical bills, fined him and made him pay back charges from when the guy had started working for him. All totaled round 12 grand in the end.
J.P.
In Ct it makes no matter if the guy is paid as a subcontractor or an employee. Its the GC's responsibility to either collect WC certificates or pay the % on the payout.
If the sub has an injury the GC pays. There is a loophole for subs acting as sole proprietor (working alone) where they can provide a notorized waiver stating they elect not to be covered by WC. Then they cannot sue the GC or get comp.
Come to Canada. We have workers comp but we also have universal healthcare. Apparently our beer kicks #### too!
Have a good day
Cliffy
Illinois has a rather nasty work comp law... highly in favor of the worker.
File a claim against the state WC system. By doing so... your bills should be taken care of and any lost time should be paid. Then.. THEY will go after the schmuck with no WC. I am not 100% sure... but I believe that Illinois is a state that provides for criminal penalties for not carrying WC coverage (I could be wrong on that... it's been a while since I dealt with Illinois WC... but I believe that is the case)
FWIW... let him fire you for filing a WC claim. The law in most states are VERY punitive against employers who do so.. or even threaten to do so. And if the guy has no more regard for you than to not have WC insurance... well... let's just say that I do not approve (understatement of the year) of any company not having WC coverage on the employees.
Document document document... EVERYTHING about your claim. Times, witnesses, Dr's visits, etc. File the claim with the work-comp system... and if he attempts to can you as a result... load up the documentation and contact the WC system and your favorite shyster (lawyer)... it won't be pretty for the schmuck. Might take a while... but it won't be pretty.
PS... I am not a fan of people filing lawsuits all over the place. But in this case... I would advocate such in a heartbeat. Not carrying WC is bad enough... but to threaten an employee who gets injured for simply claiming what is rightfully his (and it sounds like he is wanting less than what could possibly be due im)... is just plain wrong and the boss in this case deserves anything and everything that is thrown at him... and then some.
First, because to get the treatment you had to sign a paper, your on the hook for the ER visit.
If you are paid by check, ideally one with a stub or one with a statement of SS and other payments, he can't very well get away with claiming your not an employee. State workman's compensation authorities should be able to help you out. Make sure you keep all the records of injury, treatments and any payments.
If your getting paid on the side and especially in cash your going to have a lot more trouble proving your status. Witnesses might help. Used to be the state and federal labor relations boards would pursue such cases but, from what I hear, the GOP has gutted these regulatory organizations. This trend, of defunding and pulling the teeth, started under Reagan and has only gotten worse.
Large contractors in Florida have largely eliminated a lot of WC and other protections for workers. Individual workers can't swing enough money and power to shift things. Labor has been propagandized into fearing unions and other organizations which could balance the scales. Money sent to politicians by contractors has come back as adjustments made in their favor. Down side is individuals get boned while the contractors willing to game the system make more money. There are still a few who treat their people well but it is at their pleasure not under force of law, for the most part, any more.
Do contact the hospital and explain the situation. Silence is taken by them as a snub. Some hospital groups will bone you because they can and they don't give a tinkers damn that it wasn't your fault, rightly your responsibility or that it will put your family on the street. Others, if you work with them and get their better ear, can write off some, most or all of the bill. Most have some sort of financial services department that handles these things.
Used to be that paying ten or twenty dollars a month consistently would be construed in court as a 'good faith' effort to make good. Failure to respond to bills is taken as an attempt to avoid payment and is looked on more dimly by the legal authorities when the hospital asks to collect assets.
Good luck.
I feel for you. I just got back from having 2 monthts off for cutting a tendon in my left hand (cutting notches in a stair newel on a Friday at 5:30 with a sawzall, it jumped and got me, Doh!)
The company I work for has WC, thank God. The bills I have forwarded to the insurance company give me the willies.
Good luck. Fight hard for you and your family.
Jim, I hate to advocate this but you are a perfect candidate for a personal injury attorney. Some of them advertise on late-night TV, but you can find a reputable one who will get you paid and will probably put your boss out of business. You can't afford to work for someone who doesn't follow the law and provide the insurance you need. What if you were badly disabled and missed months of work and had hundreds of thousands in hospital bills. Anyway, the arsehole is trying to intimidate you. I'll hold him down while you beat him.
The link that Rich posted re Texas law is unbelievable. I'm guessing that W had something to do with that.
It was that way long before W was in office. If I am not mistaken... Texas has never had a mandatory WC law.
Oh, please stop with the W had something to do with it bull crap!This WC thing has been part of the Texas work culture since before Bush even heard of the state
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Chill out, man, it was just a wisecrack. It's not like I know anything about Texas law or even give a sh!t about it, except to say that the lack of required WC is idiotic and definitely worthy of W even if it's not his work. Oops, sorry, that (POL) and now I'll get deleted.
I just know that all these cracks blaming him for everything from the bad weather to the neighbor's body odor make the crackers sound more idiotic than the man they are calling the idiot
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I am frequently an idiot, so you'll get no argument from me.
If it were me, I'd do everything I possibly could to dismantle his life as he knew it and ruin him and not stopping until it happened. I'd want to watch him go from being the boss with a company to a pauper on the street begging for change and wishing he'd never met me....
Starting with calling the IL comp system and another call to a lawyer.
But then I'm more vindictive then most people. You need to stand up to him and get's what rightfully yours, the way he is acting is inexcusable