No heat, again. I’m moving back North!
Ok, sometime this evening something happens to the basement furnace, which heats the first floor of my home. I work second shift and even though the wife realized a problem existed, she chose to let it spoil my sleep-time when I got home at 12:30AM instead of letting me know at work to calm down during my workshift. How nice.
Anyway, I am not hearing the usual clicking of the thermostat that I usually hear when the thermostat clicks on the AC or furnace. When I got home this evening the thermostat read 55ºF while the head unit was set to 58ºF. I adjusted the setting to 62ºF and still nothing.
First I go down into the basement to check the breaker and it hasn’t tripped. I toggle it anyways to no effect. I hear a barely-audible humming coming from the unit, but cannot determine if its the electronic ignotion of the furnace or the blower. To rule out the blower being a problem, I go upstairs and change the ‘Fan’ setting from Auto to On. I hear it come on, so I know its not the blower. I switch the Fan back to Auto.
I guess its either the electronic ignotion on the furnace, the thermostat, or something else. No model numbers on the furnace. Only a Lennox Cheap-Arse Series. Suggestions? I’ll be calling the richy-rich mechanical folks in the morning when I get up. Nothing better than to say Merry Friggen Xmas than a) have employer give you a $6K Anti-Bonus, and b) need a new furnace.
Replies
You mean the thermostat used to click and now it doesn't?
If so, and if it is a electro-mechanical one, you could bypass the bimetallic element that turns the mercury-containing capsule with a jumper wire. But it would be a weird thing to fail - there's not much to them.
I know the thermostat you are talking about, but this is not that kind of thermostat. Still, it 'clicks' on and off when operating normally. Specifically, its a White-Rodgers Model 153-7758.
Its 48ºF downstairs. Brrrr. Calling the mechanical folks.
Wife just revealed something else this morning. She just now tells me that last evening when she got up from the family room chaise and went to adjust the thermostat (it was getting cold) she reached up and static electricity discharged through the air from finger to thermostat. She said she forgot to discharge herself on the light switch (I've mentioned before about my statically-charged environment) and the LCD readout on the thermostat "went completely back, but came back normal as usual."
This tells me this isn't the first time she's played the zapper to the poor thermostat, and probably sent enough of a static charge to hurt either the thermostat or the electronic ignition on the furnace. Called the mechanical folks and they cannot come out until tomorrow morning--unless its after-hours tonight. I told them tomorrow would be fine. Tired of paying after-hours callout fees because of my crappy home.
what's an anti-bonus?
Yea, thats got me wondering as well.
Boss didnt ask for money back did he?
Rich/Doug, my evening shift is being deleted, meaning the 10% differential I've enjoyed the past five years (sufficient time enough for that to be considered part of my normal income) was 10% of my base salary. So, instead of making a little over $59K I was making $65K. Being that 2006 will be $6K less in income, the wife and I cancelled Xmas this year.
Anyway, any ideas on the heating problem? In the 25 years I spent growing up in Rhode Island, I never once had a 'heating problem'. It just figures I could move 1,000 miles South to have problems. <shakes head in amazement>
Am not readily finding a WR thermostat that shows the model number you gave. ???
Suggest you start here http://www.white-rodgers.com/common/ptech/thermo/thermo_14.htm to determine which thermostat you may have (if not an obsolete model). Once you find your thermostat, you'll see a links to questions concerning that thermostat. The first one in the list is what to do if there's not heating or cooling function...............and it tells you how to reset the thermostat.
Hope that turns the trick for ya.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Doh! My apologies. It would be this unit: http://www.white-rodgers.com/common/ptech/thermo/StatTypeNumber1f80.htm
1F80-51. Removing batteries for five (5) minutes to reset per website instructions.
Edited 12/21/2005 9:14 am ET by Nuke
A friend of mine put one of those lockable plastic covers on his thermostat to keep his wife and children from messing with it. I have considered it myself.
Ok, good and bad news. Good news is I forgot to turn the NG cutoff valve back to the On position after yesterday's tomfoolery, and haven now done so and repeated the experiments the furnace IS lighting. The bad news would be a) experimenting before coffee (I'll get fined for that one), and b) looks like the thermostat is bad.
I conclude the thermostat was bad when after about 20-seconds of fire the controller board actually kicked ON the main blower. We let it stay shorted, and running, for about 2-minutes to make sure and then took out the short. About 30-seconds after removing the short at the thermostat the main blow kicked off, which is normal to cool down the burners I think.
Gooder news is that you can go to the home horror store and even places like Sear or hardware store and get either a basic mechanical or electronic setback thermostat and have heat before the 2nd cup of coffee.Since you don't have heat pump, zoning, or digital read out of the condition the filter, etc any thermostat with heat/AC (and that is 99.12% of them) will work.
I'll refrain from making any wise-cracks about forgetting to turn the gas back on.........cause we've all done things similar. I'll just grin a little. <G>
If I've got this right...............everything is running as it should with the exception of the thermostat. I betcha that's something you can handle yourself. As always, your call.
I'm also betting that this has been a bit of a learning experience which just might encourage you to acquire a new HSI element for your furnace and have it close at hand. Being reasonbably prepared with parts can take alot of the pain outta the next time the unit falls on it's face. A thermostat can be easily bypassed to get some heat.......but not so with an HSI.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 12/22/2005 9:19 am ET by goldhiller
So, I went to pick up the phone to call and cancel the appointment I scheduled yesterday morning for a mechanical guy, but the guy rang the doorbell. Oh well. Since I was now tied to his visit ($65) I had him breakout his multimeter and check the thermostat and control board. Control board isn't receiving jack from the thermostat and he, himself, made the jump to bypass the thermostat to repeat my experiment.
He concluded the same: bad thermostat. Good news is he said the ignitor appeared to be fine, and what I was seeing was a metal screw that was a little blackened. He admitted getting a thermostat or ignitor (or anything) from him would be expensive. Cheapest thermostat he had was $125. So, I had him write the service visit up and will get a thermostat on my own. He said I should be fine for jumping it as a temporary solution, but not to leave it running for hours. Duh!
Ok, so I'll see if I can find an identical thermostat, which the visitor actually highly recommended.
There's no reason why you can't leave the thermostat wires shorted until the temp gets up to something comfortable.You can buy any old thermostat and hang it (literally) off those two wires until you get it fixed "right".
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
>>have employer give you a $6K Anti-Bonus, and b) need a new furnace
LOL, had the same thing happen to me(on both counts)a few years back at almost exactly the same time right before Christmas. In my case it was the heat exchanger that cracked 1 month after the 10 year warranty expired also on a Lennox IIRC.
Is this Gas forced Air Furnace?
If so, think it is an EZ fix. I would start by listening to the Furnace when it cycles.
You will hear the click of the gas valve opening. if not the gas valve is bad. EZ to swap out.
Next I would check the ignition, should be by the 1st burner on the right, the lennox ones our very frail so be careful. if it looks burnt or cracked its bad, about a $20 part & should not take more then 7 mins to change out. This would be my bet as to what is wrong. I also buy 2 at a time when I replace them.
Next if the above does not work the Board is shot & I would have a pro look at that item.
You can check for a bad T-stat by jumping a wire between the Red & white t-stat lugs on the board. With a jumper it will run 24/7.
Well first the setpoint was above the room temp the whole time so most likley it the contact would have been closed the whole time. (But just read the whole thing about zapping the LCD display).
But you can varify it by use a heat source, air dryer, to make it think that the room is warmer.
Is this a heat pump system or heat pump with gas (dual fuel)?
For gas furances many of them have an led on the unit that will flash an error code.
Here is what I would so. Turn the furnace off. Then remove any batteries from the thermostat.
Wait about 5 minutes and replace the batteries. Then turn the furnace back on and monitor what it does.
That process should reset the thermostat if it got scrambled. Also it will reset any safey lockouts in the furnace.
Gas force hot air. Lennox gas-fired furnace and separate AC unit. No heat pump. Let me go take some pictures and post them ...
Here is one I changed last week, $18.96 with taxs.
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat01.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat02.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat03.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat04.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat05.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat06.jpg
I'll have to remove the furnace cover in order to get a better picture. I have located the gas shutoff valve, but I am not sure if there is a purge value I need to be looking for. Having a little trouble locating the manuals for the furnaces (found them for the HW heater and AC units).
Pull the cover off, look for a plate with the model # on it, should be in the top section on the left side. Take some photos so we can get it running again.
I wish your were close by, then I could swing by spend 20 mins & a $20 part & charge you $450 for the service call, Thats how they do it around here, To make you feel better I could hang out in the truck for 50 mins reading the newspaper.
Evidently, resetting the the thermostat didn't do the deed or you woulda reported so.
I'd suggest that if you're cold in there, the next step is what was already suggested......try jumpering to bypass the thermostat. Simplest place for the uninitiated to do this is right at the thermostat. You'll see that there's two red wires under the one screw there. One is just a jumper, the other is the red wire from the wiring harness itself. You need to remove the white wire from under the screw and the red one from the wiring harness, then tie those two ends together. That should bypass the thermostat and make a continuous call for heat. If the furnace then fails to start, the problem is down at the heating unit itself........or there's damage in the wiring between the thermostat and the furnace connections.
If the problem is at the furnace controls or ignition, see the previous posts about troubleshooting those.
(If you have a little jumper wire around with an alligator clip on each end, you can use this instead of tying those two wires together in mid air. Just clip one end on the screw with the white wire under it and the other end to the screw with the red wires.)
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Yeah, I'm getting the feeling I need to rule out the head unit, now. I gave the head unit 10-15 minutes to reset and the rsult was no change. I presume this is a low-voltage device, right? Don't want a visit from Sparky. lol
Yup. If you're nervous about it, just turn off the power to the furnace while you do the jumpering and then turn it back on afterwards.
You did check to make sure your batteries aren't shot, yes? <G>
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
You did check to make sure your batteries aren't shot, yes?
Batteries were replaced last Thursday after my 6-hour power outage in that freak ice storm. Now trying highfigh's suggestion of killing the power to the furnace for 5-10 minutes. I already had it and the NG off before I removed the furnace cover.
Model 80UHG3/4 is what is on the left side of the interior housing. Unfortunately, it doesn't say if this is for the blower or the furnace. Let's see what Google turns up ...
Google found the manul (Lennox wants the unit registered before giving easy access to documentation). http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/manuals/Lennox%2080UHG%20Manual.pdf
Edited 12/21/2005 11:53 am ET by Nuke
Freak ice storm, eh?
Did you then or are you now suffering from any electrical abnormalities in the house? (Dim or intermittantly dimming lights, etc.)
If turning off the furnace for a bit and jumpering past the thermostat doesn't do the deed (don't forget to turn the furnace and the gas back on)...........
Next question is.......... do you have an electrical test meter (VOM) and do know how to do simple tests for voltage and continuity with it?
I presume this unit has power-exhaust. ?? (Didn't look at every pic here on DU) If so.....have you yet you checked to be certain that the exhaust flue isn't impeded outside with snow or similar? Do you ever hear the exhaust blower start? This has to prove free-flow to the main gas valve before the furnace will be allowed to light.
Wish we was there. <G>
Edit: Also might wanna check to see if the condensate drain line/hose is blocked or impeded.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 12/21/2005 11:53 am ET by goldhiller
No, everything operates as normal with the exception of this unit. I just updated my previous post as I found the manual for the model furnace I have. Let me go turn the power and NG back on and see what happens.
Nothing happened. But at least the limited manual explains that a) there is a control board, and b) where it is located. There is a lower panel, which I just opened up. On the inside of this lower-panel is a diagnostic chart for two LED. Depending on their behavior one simply matches to the chart to learn what is going on. There are about 10-12 different scenarios on this chart and NONE fit my description, which is neither LED is lit.
Houston, I think we have another symptom. Nothing appears to be getting to the controller board in terms of power. Sorry, I do not have any test equipment. I haven't handled a multimeter since 1986.
Edited 12/21/2005 12:11 pm ET by Nuke
Nuke,
Have you yet tried bypassing the thermostat?
Checked the exhaust flue for ice, snow or maybe a bird who sought shelter in there ? Critters like warm palces in the winter. Once removed 13......yup, 13 dead sparrows from a single PVC exhaust flue. No wonder that puppy wouldn't start. <G>
Other thoughts.............
1- You say you replaced the batts right after the ice storm. Why? Just happenstance or was something amiss? Or were you just nervous so replaced 'em?
2- You said you turned off the breaker and flipped it, too. There should also be a service disconnect right at the furnace itself. Probably looks like a simple lightswitch or maybe also is fused there. That would contain a simple Edison based glass fuse. Neither you nor the wife have inadvertantly bumped this switch off ?? Not likely the wife yesterday or that a contained fuse is burned out cause you said the furnace circulating blower did run for you on manual over-ride.
3- Voltage spike coulda had adverse affects on the low-voltage transformer during the ice storm and so nothing will operate if that thing's now failing to produce the necessary voltage.
I'd bypass the thermo, check the flue, etc. first. If you turn off the current to the furnace while you bypass the thermostat, that'll put you in close proximity to the furnace when you return power. Then you'll hear if the power exhaust blower starts at all. and/or if the main gas valve clicks. All of this stuff is important in diagnosing the situation.
Those built-in diagnostics on those gas valves are not always trustworthy.....and they can't diagnose every type of potential problem. BTDT more than once. This is why a guy has to know where else to look for the real cause.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
If you remove the panel and close the intrusion switch, with the thermostat set to heat, does the hum come from the motor, thermostat or one of the circuit boards? I have a Rheem furnace in my rental unit and it has a bad blower relay, caused by excessive current draw or it was undersized. Funny, when I opened the relay, the second pair of contacts is apparently not being used for anything. And, I haven't been able to find a direct replacement for the relay, just the whole blower board ####'y for the low, low price of around $200. If I clamp the contacts on the relay, the inducer motor kicks on, the ignitor glows and the gas turns on until it reaches the desired temperature, the timer circuit just doesn't work.How old is your furnace?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Don't knowif yours is this way, but..........some of those boards have multiple choices/contacts for the blower "on". 30,60,90 or 120 seconds after ignition of the main burner. IMO,120 is usually a bit too long as the HE gets a little too hot, and 30 is too short cause it chills the HE too soon......... but the others will probably work okay without causing detrimental HE condensation.
On these boards you can just move the blower wires from one set of connectors to the other of choice.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 12/21/2005 1:06 pm ET by goldhiller
Ok, let me remove the lower-compartment panel and engage the intrusion switch. This will make the hum start, which is only heard at the furnace/blower area and not at the thermostat. Its a single controller board, Lennox SureLight brand. BTW, under normal operation, the furnace lights up and between 30 seconds pass before the blower engages. I never really noticed how long, but its not 1-2 minutes long. The same thing on the turn-off cycle as the furnace goes out and the blower runs for about half a minute after the furnace goes out. Want me to take some pics of that controller board?
Pics might be helpful if the hum is from the board.
I'm outta here for a while, though.
I'm sure the others here can guide you ........at least as well as I might be able to.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat13.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat14.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat15.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat16.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat17.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat18.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat19.jpg
More pictures of what is in the lower compartment. Let me see if in the final few minutes I can at least try to bypass the thermostat.
Mine is about 18 y.o. and it's the blower board relay that is a big part of the problem, with the circuit that activates the blower involved, too. I looked at the schematic and haven't seen any optional turn-on delays. The relay contacts are burned and it doesn't latch automatically, anyway. I may just bite the big one, er the bullet, and replace it. Then I can pipe gas out to my garage and heat it. If anyone has spare parts like this, it's a Robert Shaw part with a small board piggy-backed onto a larger one. I can get the part # if needed.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Cool, Atlanta Supply company has the White-Rodgers replacement unit. The model I have is obsolete and no longer made. WR recommends replacing the 1F80-51 with the 1F80-361 and Atlanta Supply has it for $55.61+Tax, and its in stock. A lot better than the $125 from the mechanical guy. Let me go get it ...
Check with your local gas supplier for rebates when buying a set back type of 'stat. we had them in NJ. I thick I got $25.
Dang, I missed the chassis-intrusion switch in the upper-left corner of the lower compartment. When I engage that safety switch the two LED's begin flashing at a rate of once per second. The diagnostic chart says this means normal operation. Hah!
I turned the power and NG on, and then the thermostat. I could barely hear the thermostat 'click' so I think its trying to activate the furnace circuit. When the chassis-intrusion switch is engaged, I hear a gentle hum. Again, this would lead the common idiot to think there is a blower problem, but I ruled that out by turning on the fan manually.
Also, I would think that if a monitored component had failed, like the flue fan, those darn LED's would flash something else, no?
Found another switch, I see. <G>
I haven't liked the sounds of that hum you reported from the get-go, but decided you should try other stuff first.
Can you tell if the hum is coming from the flue blower or the furance control unit?
If the blower, try tapping on it.....hokey as that may sound. If no good results from that, turn off the power and check the wiring connections both of the flue blower and at the other end of those wires.
If sound is from the tranformer...........check all those connections. Power off first though.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
If the hum is from the flue blower and the other attempts to get it running fail........try taking the flue apart right at the blower and see if maybe a bird crawled up in there last night and is lodged.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
You might try disconnecting power to the furnace for about 5 minutes, then turn it on. The processor may have locked up with the static jolt. Sounds like the air is too dry if it's that easy to build up that much static.
Cover is off and some more pictures ...
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat07.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat08.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat09.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat10.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat11.jpg
http://www.brae.us/tmp/room/heat12.jpg
I think I see what you mean heat07.jpg and heat10.jpg images for the electronic ignition (lighter). The heat08.jpg shows one of two 'thingies' on either side of the burner rack. Images heat09.jpg and heat11.jpg show what I presume is the electronic gas-valve.
The part on the right side of the burner should be the flame sensor, the one on the left side of the burners should be the ignitor. Part # might be LH 33ZS 004. If it looks bad replace. Its the #1 part to fail.
I have be able to light off the Furnance with a lighter if the ignitor is bad. You should be able to see it glow when the furnance cycles, without removing it.
For parts you might try Johnstone Supply
Atlanta # 404 875 9940
7 other locations in Ga. So if your not close to Atlanta let me know.
Which posted images are you refering to? And thanks for the heads-up on who to call for parts.
All, The hum is coming from what 'seems' like behind the controller board. With everything in the on position I can engage the chassis intrusion switch and hear a relay clicking. I even had the wife shut the heat off at the thermostat and had her manually turn on the fan with me holding the intrusion switch closed.
I need to take a shower (and prepare for work), but I'll try to process a couple of pictures for posting (already took them, but they are 6-7 meg files in Nikon RAW format).
In a lot of cases, the ignitor is what senses the flame. The ignitor shows the controller a specific resistance range without presence of flame and as the ignitor gets hotter, the resistance increases. I would look at the ignitor (without touching it- any skin oil that gets on it would cause it to break at that point) for a dark line across it. If it has a line, it's probably cracked and the hum you're hearing can be caused by the ignitor being open. I didn't know you had Johnstone Supply down there, or I would have mentioned them. That's where I get my furnace parts. The ignitor is usually a fairly inexpensive part. My last one was about $26.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I think I need to make an observatino with the attic furnace and see how it operates. It should also be a Lennox since both got installed at the same time when the house was built five years ago. With the top panel open, I can observe the process if ignition to warm air generation. Then, with the wife at the thermostat for jumping (bypassing the thermostat), I can compare this to the basement unit.
All, just minutes before I left to go into work today, I tried the shorting the thermostat (bypass) and what I got was the sound I usually expect from the basement. This would be the sound of a furnace comnig no. BUT, after ~60 seconds I heard a load click from the basement staircase (I left the door open). What I would have expected after 60-seconds is the blower to come on and start distributnig warm air, but no blower came on.
While holding the piece of wire to short/bypass the thermostat, I switched the 'Fan' setting from Auto to On and the blower came on. I do not know if by shorting or bypassing the thermostat also prevented the furnace's controller board from triggering the blower or not. Anyway, removing the short/bypass was followed by the furnace returning to its dead-sense.
Unfortunately, I have no visual confirmation of this little experiment and will most certanily repeat either when I get home tonight (12:30AM), or in the morning. I'll have the wife bypass the thermostat and see if the basement furnace actually lights my fire. HAH!
Anyway, I went looking on Google tonight for Lennox ignightors and they were no where near as cheap as some of you are suggesting. For instance, the first place I went suggested $120-140: http://www.expertappliance.com/lennox-heating.html and I wonder if tomorrow's HVAC visit will bring a $450 bill for a $30 part.
It sounds like your furnace is likely okay......judging from your descriptions of the results of bypassing the thermostat. I suspect the click you heard was the high limit snap-switch kicking out because the blower didn't start. Looking at the schematic for your thermostat (or one very similar anyway) it appears that you have terminals in that which also send the low-voltage thru to the fan relay (when the fan setting of the thermostat is in the "auto" position) Having removed the low-voltage source wire from the thermostat to do the mid-air connection of white and red.............you likely deprived the thermostat circuitry of this LV connection/source to the fan relay on the unit in the basement. Hence the blower couldn't start, the unit got a bit too warm and so the high limit snap-switch shut 'er down. ........just like it's supposed to do.
Two different things you could do to remedy that situation to get some heat when you arrive home. Move the fan setting at the thermostat to the manual over-ride (always on) position before you bypass the thermostat and make a call for heat................or get a short piece of light wire and make a jumper from the white terminal to red terminal by placing all the wires back where they belong....... and also/then adding that jumper between the white and red terminals. This will also bypass the true functioning of the thermostat, so they'll be a continuous call for heat...........but the blower should come on this way set at the auto setting......if there aren't fan relay or transformer problems yet.
If you try the jumper and the blower doesn't start when it should..........then try turning the blower to "always on" and then the bypass of the thermostat the way you did before.
Either choice/procedure you make, you've made/requested a continuous call for heat ......so the easiest way to shut the unit down when you're warm enough is to just cut the power to the furnace at the breaker..........and turn it back on when you're cold.
Kinda sounds like maybe all you need is a new thermostat, but is still impossible to say from here. It may be that you have a dual-transformer deal there and the hum you hear is one of those transformers (the one that serves the blower unit) that's gone on the fritz also..........or the auto blower relay switch is the humming culprit. Time will tell. Wish you had a multi-meter handy. <G>
Either way, if the furnace indeed fired when you bypassed the thermostat and made the call for heat........... it sure sounds like the thermostat has a problem.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 12/21/2005 10:31 pm ET by goldhiller
Edited 12/21/2005 10:37 pm ET by goldhiller
Morning goldhiller,
45ºF this morning on the first floor, which is a nice 10º colder than my basement. Love my house, NOT. Anyway, this is what the wife and I did this morning ...
Parked my butt in the dark in the basement and in front of the furnace while the wife shorted the thermostat. I heard the flue fan and that other thing just to the lower left of it (goes into some sort of sheet-metal compartment (heat11.jpg image with red-tag stuck in it). I then watched as the ignitor glowed and then CLICK and the ignitor stopped glowing. My best guess was the clicking was coming from gas-valve in the lower-right corner of the same image (heat11.jpg). I then had the wife stop shorting to stop the experiment.
Next, I had her manually turn on the blower fan and I watched it running. Then had her re-short the thermostat and the same thing happened (flue fan comes on, thingy just to the lower-left of the flue fan makes some sort of noise {I think, but kind of hard to hear with flue fan running}, ignitor glows, and then prominent click from the gas valve followed by ignitor stop glowing), but this time I got a really good look at the ignitor.
I thought this ignitor was suppose to have to long prongs, like fingers. Well, there is one long prong and its the one glowing. But the other one is gone, with only a stub (<1/4") remaining. How exactly does the ignotor funtion between the two prongs? Is there suppose to be an arcing? I tried calling Johnstone Supply this morning and got a voicemail. If I can confirm an inexpensive solution I'll send the mechanical guy packing if he presents a $25-30 part as costing +$100+labor.
The ignitor gets really hot from the current flow. It's not just steel or iron, but cintered metal (IIRC) and you don't want to touch it when it's cold, as I said before. Yours is obviously good since it does glow, however.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"Yours is obviously good since it does glow, however. "
Not necessarily.
I've replaced a couple dozen glowing HSIs that were the fault in the ignition sequence. The resistive characteristics of the HSI change as its repeatedly heated and cooled. Many/most will eventually self-fracture as a result of this repeated heating and cooling, but some survive in tact long enough to develop enough extra resistance that the resulting current no longer falls within the parameters that the main gas valve needs to see......and so the valve won't open.
Consequently, if the HSI is glowing............. but the gas valve doesn't click........ It's time to swap out the HSI with a new one before anything else becomes truly suspect. It's far, far easier to change out a glowing HSI if the gas valve doesn't click and open........to see if that's the problem than it is to tear out and swap a gas valve, only to discover that was all for naught. I learned the hard way the first time. No repeats of that mistake since. <G>
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
At one point you turned off the gas, right? Did you turn it back on?Have you paid your gas bill?
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
At one point you turned off the gas, right? Did you turn it back on?
Have you paid your gas bill?
You being funny, Dan? The wife and I haven't been late on anything in years. Impossible when married to my wife. lol
No, it was simply the cutoff valve for the NG. I'll leave a little early and pickup the 1F80-361 from Atlanta Supply Company. They have a unit in stock on my way into the workplace. $56+Tax.
BTW, I did leave a jumper in place to warm up the place. At 11:45AM it reached 71ºF after almost three hours of running. And in <30 minutes it dropped back to 68ºF. Let's hope that ain't the usual rate of heat loss in my home--but I wouldn't be surprised. I showed the wife how to manually use the jumper wife to hold it in place. When I come home tonight I'll install the new unit.
Glad it all worked out for you.
To bad some service guy is going to have a hard time making the Exclade payment this month.
On the T-stat part. If I was buying, I would get a Honeywell, Focus Pro 6000.
Large Clear Backlit Display
Precise Comfort Control
Simplified Programming & Operation
Easy Change Battery Door
5-Year Warranty
# TH6110D1005
Best of the Season to You & Yours!!
While on the way into the workplace yesterday, I bought the White-Rodgers 1F80-361 and then left early from work and installed it. Everything appears to be working fine. I'd like to thank everybody for helping me with this little problem, and the wife was well pleased to feel warmth from fire this morning. This caveman is back out of the doghouse and back in the cave. With fire.
Nuke, don't forget the sage advice of the good idea to have a backup igniter. And if you have one, a flame sensor. These items go out in very cold weather on a weekend.
Merry Christmas!A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Is the image heat08.jog the flame sensor? There are two of these things. I agree, buying a backup ignitor is VERY good advice.
I looked at a heat08 you posted in the initial posts. A round thing with two wires coming in on each side. If thats the one, no it isn't a flame sensor.
On my boiler (if the burner is similar) I have a bent 90 pc of rod that is in the same bracket as the igniter. This hovers over the burners. When the igniter calls for flame, the gas valve opens, burners ignite and the flame sensor tells the "brains" that there has been ignition and the flame is good. If the sensor is bogus, it tells the "brains" no flame and the gas valve closes. Show me another picture of the whole burner area, should be there if your furnace burner is similar.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
just found out ... early Nov ...
that the flame sensor can be "cleaned" ...
seems to have been the problem at this old house.
my hvac buddy said to check that first ... after confirming the T-stat was working.
said either steel wool or very high grit sand paper ...
I steel wool'd it ... reinstalled ... been warm since.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Nuke, beyond your T-stat you have a Fan control switch, it turns on the fan, and keeps it running after your furnace shuts off...(look at this if you have not fixed it by swapping out your t-stat already) ...
SCRIBE ONCE CUT ONCE!
This looks like a high eff. type of unit. Is it? Plastic exhaust pipe? Check the pipe is clear for intake and exhaust. There is a pressure switch that will stop it starting if the intake or exhaust is cloged.
Plastic exhaust pipe? That white PVC pipe is frmo the AC units condensation. It allows condensated water to go to a small pump sittnig on the floor to be pumped outdoors. It has nothing to do with the NG furnace.
Hi Nuke I looked again at your photos and just before the metal exhaust pipe behind the grill is an "exhaust blower" which helps get the fumes out of the heater. If this fan does not run and cause a pressure drop the heater will not start. As your unit appears to use house air, a blocked intake is rare. check the exhaust is clear as this will stop the unit from starting. (by the way some units use pvc for the exhaust as the exaust fume is so low with the high efficiency units)
In heat12.jpg image is the black flue fan and it does run. In fact, upon shorting the thermostat it the first thing I notice running. Not sure if NG is being let through by the gas-valve, but the sequence is pretty much running as expected, with the expection of fire for this caveman.
BTW, exactly how does one check the exhaust (flue)? Am I to disassemble the flue or unmount the flue fan?
Do you know where the flue exits the house? if so go take a look to check if its clear . If it is open and clear. Check the pressure switch which is just below the black fan in picture 12. Should "click" when the fan is up to speed. then the ignighter comes on and the gas valve opens.