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Discussion Forum

No house wrap?

JohnT8 | Posted in Construction Techniques on August 10, 2006 04:59am

Noticed this one being built in the vicinity of my project house.  No house wrap?  I don’t think I’ve seen a new house without either housewrap, tarpaper, and/or foamboard prior to the siding going on.

Is this common and I’ve just never noticed it?

View Image

Gotta love that 8X zoom:

View Image

 

jt8

“You can say any fool thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, `My God, you’re RIGHT! I NEVER would’ve thought of that!’ ” — Dave Barry 


Edited 8/10/2006 10:01 am by JohnT8


Edited 8/10/2006 10:02 am by JohnT8

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Replies

  1. User avater
    IMERC | Aug 10, 2006 05:17pm | #1

    sad to say it's common now...

    no felt on roofs seems to be coming more common too....

    no drip edge and window / door flashin either...

     

    Bt'ers are a rare breed...

     

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

    WOW!!! What a Ride!

    Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

    1. johnapril | Aug 10, 2006 05:36pm | #2

      That photo is precisely why I bought a 40-year-old house.  We are starting a remodel on the screened-in porch and removed the wood paneling, turned it over, and WOW!, first growth California redwood.  We're gonna flip it over, plane it, and put it up as a ceiling.

      1. edwardh1 | Aug 10, 2006 06:22pm | #3

        well with all the $800k homes with Bosch everything and wolf and Dacor, and elevators and hi tech wiring, there is just no money left for housewrap.
        plus u can't see that its not there!

  2. FHB Editor
    JFink | Aug 10, 2006 06:38pm | #4

    It's sad that a lack of housewrap/tar paper would be getting more common. Especially since it's a code violation.

    Then again, so many people install it incorrectly anyhow, might as well save the money and skip it altogether at that rate.

    Justin Fink - FHB Editorial

    Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator

    1. User avater
      IMERC | Aug 10, 2006 06:45pm | #5

      WTB that the HO doesn't see any of that money... 

      Bt'ers are a rare breed...

       

      Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

      WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

      Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

    2. JohnT8 | Aug 10, 2006 08:28pm | #10

      The windows on this house seem pretty cheap too.  And I suspect that the builder of this house is the same who built the house on the end of the street.  Went to an open house prior to it selling (for good $$ for this area).

      They had 'builders best' ceiling fans ($20-39 on sale?), 2 for $15 light fixtures in the halls, it appeared that the K plan had changed because the can lights were in the wrong places.  The person I walked through it with mentioned that the K cabinets were crooked and not level.  The BR's had cheap berber.  The BA had this really long space for a nice sized vanity...but they'd installed about a 24" one.

      The MBR had a horrible layout (low window on one wall --couldn't get bed under it--, entry on middle of another wall, and closet/MBA doors taking up another wall, so there was only ONE place you could put a bed and you would then be walking AROUND the bed to go from entry to BA or closet). 

      But... it had a great room with vaulted ceiling, open floor plan, and tall basement (even though the egress windows were like wells you'd need a ladder to climb out of)... and that is all the common house buyer sees, so it sold within 2 months.

      I don't mind people building cheap houses, but what I don't like is cheap housing masquerading as quality.

       

      jt8

      "You can say any fool thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, `My God, you're RIGHT! I NEVER would've thought of that!' " -- Dave Barry 

      Edited 8/10/2006 1:31 pm by JohnT8

      1. User avater
        BossHog | Aug 10, 2006 08:32pm | #11

        Is the builder anyone I would know?
        Having been married for some years, I've learned not to question stuff that works. [Andy Engel]

        1. JohnT8 | Aug 10, 2006 09:24pm | #13

          Is the builder anyone I would know?

          I'd have to ask the neighbors if they know who it is.  No signs in the yard, no advertisement on the trucks or trailer..and some of the trucks that pull in are just subs, so no help there unless I went up and talked with them, but everyone is usually gone by the time I get there.

           jt8

          "You can say any fool thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, `My God, you're RIGHT! I NEVER would've thought of that!' " -- Dave Barry 

          1. User avater
            intrepidcat | Aug 10, 2006 09:41pm | #14

            Could call the city and see whose name is on the permit.

              

             

      2. CVBReno | Aug 10, 2006 08:54pm | #12

        I have seen similar garbage in all of the new homes around here (Reno, NV), including $2 million homes.  Cheap windows, cheap cabinets, carpets, and fixtures, sloppy trim and tile work, and lots of corner-cutting in the construction.  Virtually all of the new homes use plywood siding or fake stucco, no soffits, no rain gutters, sloppy insulation, etc.  Some of them don't have Tyvek or other house wrap. 

        I will never buy a tract home, especially one built since about 1990.  I have owned a couple of new homes, but both were custom built and high quality.  When I moved here last year I bought a 20-year old fixer-upper house (only way to afford a big-enough house in a good neighborhood here).  The structure is sound, but I'm gutting 70% of it for new kitchen and baths, and replacing the entire ugly facade.

         

    3. User avater
      Gene_Davis | Aug 10, 2006 09:46pm | #15

      Your post said about this, "it's a code violation."

      IRC?

      1. andy_engel | Aug 10, 2006 11:20pm | #16

        Yep. Not sure if it's in the '03 IRC, but it's in the '06. Which also refs ASTM E2112 for window flashing. The only ASTM I see in that house is the American Society of TerMites.Andy

        "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein

        "Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom

        1. mallardmillwork | Aug 11, 2006 12:07am | #18

          According to '03 I think it's only required for masonry veneers. Good to go with vinyl though! Hey its not all bad, can't really tell, but it looks like those windows have built in J channel in that 2nd picture. No need for flashing after all right?   LOL

          1. Stilletto | Aug 11, 2006 12:13am | #20

            That is terrible,  the seams are too close to each other as well.  

            That house will be in the same situation as the one in another recent thread about rotted sheeting around a window. 

            Mold mansion it will be.What's wrong with me?  I could ask you the exact same thing.

          2. JohnT8 | Aug 14, 2006 07:33am | #43

            That is terrible,  the seams are too close to each other as well.  

            The first thought I had when I saw it was, "looks like roofers must be putting it on."  I see some roofers who start their shingles like that.  But even the roofers use tarpaper.

             

             jt8

            "You can say any fool thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, `My God, you're RIGHT! I NEVER would've thought of that!' " -- Dave Barry 

          3. User avater
            Mongo | Aug 11, 2006 12:34am | #22

            Looks like a pallet of brick sitting out front.They're violating on all cylinders this time around...

          4. mallardmillwork | Aug 11, 2006 01:15am | #23

            At least the roofers had sense enough to attempt some sort of flashing on walls above the roof...

          5. rez | Aug 11, 2006 05:21am | #24

            Right, like vinyl over that flashing is going to be...oh nevermind:o)

            Much thanks to JohnT8 for capturing a classic pic and posting.View Image

             

            be he be cool

            We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

          6. JohnT8 | Aug 12, 2006 12:39am | #28

            I kinda wonder about this window.  The stickers are upside down.  I assumed if they went with the cheapest possible windows that they would be single-hungs... so it would be darn near impossible to hang one upside down, wouldn't it?

            View Image

            jt8

            "You can say any fool thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, `My God, you're RIGHT! I NEVER would've thought of that!' " -- Dave Barry 

            Edited 8/11/2006 5:41 pm by JohnT8

          7. Stilletto | Aug 12, 2006 12:42am | #29

            Looks right to me,  at least right side up.  I think them be screens on the bottoms maybe.  

            Windows are so cheap that the stickers are up side down.  :)  What's wrong with me?  I could ask you the exact same thing.

          8. rez | Aug 12, 2006 12:44am | #30

            John,

            You might as well face it.

            Yer not going to rest until you walk up and knock on the door to see inside.

             

             

            be the proof of the pudding is in the eating

            We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

          9. JohnT8 | Aug 12, 2006 12:55am | #31

            Yer not going to rest until you walk up and knock on the door to see inside.

            When it is finished and listed with a realtor, I'm there on the open house.  But during the construction phase i've been just shooting from the street.  I'd have to come up with a line of bull, because the dude was probably at the auction when I bought my house (people tend to remember me), so I can't pretend to be interested in buying the house.

            And I really don't like throwing stones, because I know they can throw them right back.  I'm sure there must be something I'm not doing right (although I lean more towards overkill than underkill).  On the open houses I usually just go to see what the competition is putting in.  Without major reconstruction, I really can't put in great rooms or a basement (in my house), so I have to add a few other 'wow' items to make up for it.

             

             

             jt8

            "You can say any fool thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, `My God, you're RIGHT! I NEVER would've thought of that!' " -- Dave Barry 

          10. rez | Aug 12, 2006 01:09am | #32

            John,

            Are you really that concerned about this guy throwing stones?

            View Image 

            be heh heh heh I mean just look at that!!!

            We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

          11. andy_engel | Aug 12, 2006 01:30am | #33

            I just noticed the rake returns. Do you think anyone there has any sort of a clue about how to roof them?Andy

            "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein

            "Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom

          12. rez | Aug 12, 2006 05:02am | #35

            I'm hoping that the waviness on the edge of some of that vinyl is just from the lack of pic clarity and not from nails being hammered home. The same for that top seam of osb that looks like it got wet and became wafflized.

            And sure hope those imaginary seams that seem to be running up parallel to the diagonal ends really are imaginary.

             

            be a curious art form of the early 21rst century

            We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

          13. Stilletto | Aug 12, 2006 05:09am | #36

            The siding almost looks like it not snapped in all the way,  I seen it too.  Can't really tell either without seeing it first hand. When I grow up I want to be like Riverman!

  3. rez | Aug 10, 2006 07:17pm | #6

    You don't know how much I hate those pics.

    And that friggin' diagonal seam of vinyl.

    gawd I want to take a hammer and...and...

     

     

    can't be

    We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.
    Forrest - makin' magic every day

    1. Piffin | Aug 10, 2006 07:39pm | #7

      Now, Now, there, Saint Rez...Count to ten
      maybe twenty 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. rez | Aug 10, 2006 07:45pm | #8

        well, at least the whole wall is covered with osb instead of just the corners and the rest using 1/2" asphalt impregnated fiber board.

         

         

        be 7/16

        We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

      2. User avater
        IMERC | Aug 10, 2006 08:04pm | #9

        give him a biggest BFH and get things set right... 

        Bt'ers are a rare breed...

         

        Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

        WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

        Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

        1. Piffin | Aug 11, 2006 12:34am | #21

          Thanks for the call, I just got all the problems here ironed out, I think. Time for dinner 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  4. matasky | Aug 10, 2006 11:58pm | #17

    hmmm...staggering joints 101...no flashing...yeah, this house is why they are pushing to make certification mandatory where i'm from...like electricians and plumbers already are...

     

  5. durabond5 | Aug 11, 2006 12:12am | #19

    Why didn't they use full lengths of siding left of the window? They could do the wall with no seams.

  6. DougU | Aug 11, 2006 06:52am | #25

    John

    I went out to Colorado a couple years ago and IMERC and I were driving around in Colorado Springs (I think) and Pulte (largest home builder in the country) was doing exactly that, no felt on the roofs either.

    They were installing lap sidding, 12" stuff, dont remember but I think it was good ole masonite, 11 1/2 exposure. You just had to know that was going to be a quality job!

    Doug

    1. User avater
      IMERC | Aug 11, 2006 06:55am | #26

      and masonry facades straight to the OSB..

      no felt there either... 

       

      Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

      WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

      Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

    2. rez | Aug 11, 2006 06:59am | #27

      I remember that thread.

      No pics like John's tho'.

       

      Still can't believe it but then again I recall Oklahoma building a developement on top of a foot of dirt atop a community trash dump using a tension slab.

       

      be as blue says 'yep, tear 'em all down and build a developement

      We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

  7. cat | Aug 12, 2006 04:28am | #34

    just think of all the business in repairs in our near futures...

    1. JohnT8 | Aug 14, 2006 07:31am | #42

      just think of all the business in repairs in our near futures...

      Funny you should mention that.  Fri or Sat Mom had a new garage door put on her late 1980's house.  The guy mentioned that most of his business is replacing doors on NEW houses.  The cheap doors put on by the tract builder doesn't last and has to be replaced almost immediately.

       jt8

      "You can say any fool thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, `My God, you're RIGHT! I NEVER would've thought of that!' " -- Dave Barry 

      1. rez | Aug 14, 2006 07:35am | #44

        What do you think the house in the vinyl pic is going to look like if it makes it 10years?

         

        be 10 do I hear 11?

        We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

        1. JohnT8 | Aug 14, 2006 07:47am | #45

          What do you think the house in the vinyl pic is going to look like if it makes it 10years?

          It will probably have termites by then.  But no worries, the builder would have already cashed their check.  By 10 years, you might be on the 2nd or 3rd owner. 

          The amazing logic of the situation is nagging at me.  Gawd, just THINK at how much $$ this guy is making!  Down the road his competition is putting on Tyvek and Andersen windows.  Right there this guy has saved thousands of $$.  And who cares if it falls down in 10 years.  By then he will have built God knows how many more houses and made that extra thousands of $$ on each.

           

           

           jt8

          "You can say any fool thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, `My God, you're RIGHT! I NEVER would've thought of that!' " -- Dave Barry 

  8. kayaker | Aug 12, 2006 04:30pm | #37

    No one is perfect but there should be a law against these crappy builders that want to save a couple hundred bucks here and there!

    1. User avater
      IMERC | Aug 12, 2006 05:05pm | #38

      WTB it's way more than a few hundred...

      gotta be more like thousands...

      multiply that by hundreds and hundreds of houses...

      makes for a sweet bottom line....

       

      be greed motivated.... 

       

      Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

      WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

      Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

      1. rez | Aug 12, 2006 05:59pm | #39

        John, we need a return engagement to that house of ill repute.

        pics, man, pics.

         

        be Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving With a Pic ...

        We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

        1. JohnT8 | Aug 14, 2006 07:11am | #40

          Their masonry sub showed up last week.  Got his sign in the yard.  I missed them Friday, but they worked half a day on Saturday and I walked by.  Three man crew.

          I'm not a masonry expert, but these guys seemed to be a clean, efficient crew.  I snapped a pic of their sign for future reference.  I wanted to ask them some questions, but didn't have the heart to break their rhythm.  Here's a pic of some of their work.  Hello tarpaper!

          And a vinyl crop from that earlier pic.

           jt8

          "You can say any fool thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, `My God, you're RIGHT! I NEVER would've thought of that!' " -- Dave Barry 

      2. JohnT8 | Aug 14, 2006 07:16am | #41

        Actually, you are correct.  Seems like this guy has it almost down to a science.  He knows what excites buyers (great room, cathedral ceilings, open floor plan, etc) so includes those items, but seem to skimp on everything else. 

        I seriously doubt your average home buyer is going to walk up thinking, "gee, wonder if the builder put housewrap on."  or "gee, I hope they flashed those windows correctly."

         jt8

        "You can say any fool thing to a dog, and the dog will give you this look that says, `My God, you're RIGHT! I NEVER would've thought of that!' " -- Dave Barry 

  9. Jer | Aug 14, 2006 02:16pm | #46

    I have never seen that done.  Oh wait...yes I have,once, but I made the guy rip everything off and use the wrap.  Never used him again.  That's insane.

    1. rez | Aug 15, 2006 02:09am | #47

      77270.1

      We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world.  Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day

      1. JohnT8 | Aug 22, 2006 11:16pm | #48

        Update: Some pics from last week.   They've already got it listed with a realtor.

        jt8

        "Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success."  --Albert Schweitzer

        Edited 8/22/2006 4:18 pm by JohnT8

        1. User avater
          IMERC | Aug 23, 2006 01:14am | #49

          pic #5

          did they skip some of the J channel on the soffit.. 

           

          Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

          WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

          Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

          1. DougU | Aug 23, 2006 02:35am | #50

            You dont need it everywhere, no sence wasting the stuff.

          2. User avater
            IMERC | Aug 23, 2006 03:09am | #52

            we need to make that builder's margin... 

             

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

            WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

            Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

          3. JohnT8 | Aug 23, 2006 08:40pm | #53

            Different crop:

             jt8

            "Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success."  --Albert Schweitzer

          4. Stilletto | Aug 23, 2006 09:43pm | #54

            The F-channel for the soffit is in there. 

            BUT here is what I think.  I think that it's not nailed to the house.  I think they sat it on top of the J-channel and pushed it against the house with the soffit.  Hoping that the soffit staples will hold it in place when a big uplifting wind blows through the neighborhood. 

            Who knows I may be wrong too.  I keepm seein these pictures and shake my head.  It's no wonder people have a bad taste in their mouth from contractors.  I'm only half as dumb as I look.    

             

          5. User avater
            IMERC | Aug 24, 2006 01:39am | #55

            there's no channel on the fascia edge... suspect the fascia wrap is the supsitute...

            don'y know what they did against the house.. 

             

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

            WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

            Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

          6. Stilletto | Aug 24, 2006 02:19am | #56

            That is a typical installation Imerc. 

            The soffit is cut a 1/4" shorter than the overhang,  slid into the f-channel thats supposed to be nailed to the wall,  then nailed or stapled to the bottom of the subfacia.  Aluminum facia then wraps over the cut edges of the soffit and tucks in behind the dripedge. 

            Looks like a L.  I'm only half as dumb as I look.    

             

        2. Lansdown | Aug 23, 2006 03:00am | #51

          Felt would cover all those registration lines on the OSB ;-)

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