Nobody flashes correctly under vinyl. .
Because of storm damage, I am needing to reside, reroof, and replace many windows on my house, and have started looking at siding jobs/contractors. What is it with siding contractors not flashing? I haven’t seen a home close to right yet!
Before I get assaulted, let me say I’ve looked at new homes, old homes, and homes built by builders and friends (I worked once in the industry). High end or low end. Nobody flashes properly around windows and doors with vinyl siding. I saw a 5 year old builders home, woodtrim around all the doors – the paint was flaking off the tops of the moldings which had no drip caps, only j-trim caulked to them, clearly from water damage. The wood was starting to rot. The only place that was even close was an apartment complex.
Maybe this is why everybody has moisture problems. . .sheesh!
Replies
Seems to me......starting out doing "aluminum siding" 27 years ago that "siding guys" are kinda tunnel visioned. If the actual "builder" did the siding then I don't get it. I've done more siding then you can imagine and as far as drip caps go......I bend my own depending on the wood trim or J channel I manufacture for the windows doors fascia etc etc.....I ALWAYS make my own drip caps. I think "siding guys" for the most part just wanna BANG UP SQUARES where the thinking is "can't see it from my house". If you have ab=ny questions please Email me(see my website below for Email and photos"
Be well
Namaste'
andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
It's not just under vinyl, it's everywhere, and it's been that way a long time. I have a stucco house from 1926, no flashing. First, you have to care about doing it right, then you have to think like water....
-- J.S.
I have to laugh.... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On track built and semi custom homes in Maryland the norm is nailing siding directly to OSB sheathing. So the real question is what good would the flashing do even if it was installed?
These crap built houses will keep me busy till I retire!
Actually, I am talking about Maryland! Even when they use drip cap, it is improperly installed. For example, garage door with 45 angled top corners (each about 1-2')- center flashed, angles not. Another example is caulking the j channel to the drip cap - nice if you want to keep all that water back there!!
Yes this is true.
Flashings are arguably the most overlooked of essential building practices. Drip cap in the long run is probably the most cost effective component in a building.
Funny, I've never had a customer even ask me about flashing details on a siding project.
Check this picture out, this is work done by one of the largest homebuilders in the country. What you're seeing is the result of a decorative skirt board that was not flashed. It was a detail throughout the whole house. Worse yet, the house is sheathed in that exterior gypsum product. Basically the house was destroyed. No plywood on the whole building, no metal t=bracing. No shear panels whatsoever. There were a hundred or so houses in that developement alone, all the same. Probably thousands in the area, god only knows how many throughout the country. The before pictures indicate minimal rotten wood. A few bucks in flashings would have prevented thousands of dollars in repairs.
Tom
Edited 7/8/2002 10:34:01 PM ET by Tommy B.
I see from the attachment that there is no drip cap over the windows. It looks like maybe OSB under tar paper but the paper looks strange. Could you please give a rundown of the materials involved and expand on the problems? It looks pretty rough especially if the pink stuff is fiberglass.
Was the missing sheathing caused by rot or did it come off when the siding was removed. I'm not entirely sure which one would be more ominous. Both things would seem to imply a larger problems of poor nailing or widespread water damage. The implication being that the first tool to reach for may be a bulldozer instead of a pry bar. IMHO only a slight exaggeration.
I spent 19 hours on Friday and Saturday replacing rot on five gables on the front elevation of a $500k house. 1x6 with rake moulding flush at the top. 1-7/8" of horizontal area to trap water. Guess what, they all rotted. And the 3/8" ply that they were overlaid on. And the corner boards took a hit to.
All that because someone didn't think like water (or maybe just the first part).
I don't see where I can attach a photo... I wanted to send you a picture of my dormers... moldy and rotten, mostly at the edge next to the roof, touching it in most places.
The step-flashing isn't stepped with the shingles. I roofed it myself and thought I knew what I was doing... could that be the problem or at least a factor? Ugh. I think I'll trye posting a pic in a forum group.
Edited 7/9/2002 12:18:17 AM ET by 28211
Does your siding touch the roofing? I like to leave a uniform 1" gap between the shingles and siding for two reasons. 1. It simplifies a proper step flashing job for the roofers and 2. The end grain that is exposed when siding is mitered to fit the pitch will absorb a good amount of water which leads to expansion and contraction which leads to checking which leads to rot. Your flashing could be suspect also, but I don't think you would notice a flashing problem in the siding above the flashing, as it would tend to affect the framing and sheathing that the steps are over.
Jon Blakemore
Just sold my house that I built/renovated (mostly built)(see my website below). Every window, straight and arched ones I manufactured my own drip caps and flashings. I even bent coil stock and slipped it under my roofing and into the gutters (beyond the call of duty)..All dormers have step flashing....the trim I made in front has flashing over it, even the gambrel roof has drip cap I made over the fascia. I think I spent more time making and installing the flashing then I did building the house but thats what you guys are saying....BAsically, use an umbrella if ya dont wanna get wet....I told this to all the potential buyers and not ONE of them cared an iota........so thats probably why big builders don't spend the money.Bummer!
Be well
Namaste'
andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 7/9/2002 6:59:42 AM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
Edited 7/9/2002 7:00:33 AM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
Andy - Good to hear you finally sold that beautiful house. Too bad you couldn't move on that large renovation house a couple months back. Is that still an option or are you off to other places?
It really is too bad to see that the proper time isn't spent to flash correctly. I am re-siding my own house with cedar claps and I am spending probably 70% of my time on proper flashing and trim detail, actually nailing claps is straight forward but the quality of the project is under the claps.
I have run into a few different schools of thought though. Do you guys install a 10" strip of flashing along the base of the wall at the starter strip?
Thanks
SJKnow a little about alot and alot about little.
Steve......Thanks.....funny enough that 360 year old house was bought (?) by someone else as mine wasnt sold yet....Yetttttt it still hasnt closed so I called the owner a cpl of days ago and said I was ready to rock n roll if he was having issues with his buyer. A long shot but I made the call anyway. HAd 11 acres I bid on in northern Calif that I lost yesterday. Price was over my head and the seller would only come downa big six grand on a listed price of over half a million.5 so............
HAve to be outta here by the middle of next month..eeeeee and need a project in this school district.....something to flash....lol
Be well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Common knowledge that you can't properly flash under vinyl. A trench coat and sneakers are the traditional and time honored solution.
Don't you guys know anything?
;)
what a roar!Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Most houses in my area of Wis are built with vinyl siding and aluminum soffit and facia, even the 25oK+ houses. I have always been suspisious of vinyl and these posting are not helping. Seems to me vinyl can't be flashed properly around windows, doors etc..... only can hope to slow down water. Vinyl isn't supposed to be caulked and looks like hell if done. Seems to me proper flashing implies channeling water back to the outside without it contacting the sheeting. Proper caulking prevents penetration. You can use paper or tape etc... under the vinyl but it doesn't channel the water back out. Maybe in most cases is slows the water enough to prevent damage. If paper or tape is not used the water can soak into the OSB quickly and repeatedly. I wonder if vinyl siding over sheets of 1/2 foam insulating board over OSB over 2X4,s especially using insul board with water proof covering, is a better way to build, than using vinyl over OSB on 2X6,s? If the seams are taped and everything holds together the water would not contact something it could damage and would eventually evaporate or leave the building at the bottom of the sheet. I also believe in using vinyl windows when using vinyl siding. Another thing to remember is that rain water bounces a great deal during a heavy rain. Thinking like rain water also means preventing damage from the bounce.