Doing some soffits on my house (well actually my exterior trim guy is doing them). For the dormers and high gables, I manufactured some v groove plywood (see attached pic – that’s 14 sheets @ 20 grooves/sheet, then sanded and primed both sides – that was a long weekend). I was planning on using 1×4 beadboard for the soffits closer to the ground, but I think I like the look enough that I might like to continue this plywood v groove (beadboard is about $2.20/sq ft – unprimed SYP). I made this first lift from BC ply and I dont think it’s quite high enough quality for stuff close to the ground that I have to look at up close. I was wondering what happens if I use a higher grade plywood that isn’t necessarily exterior grade? My local HD sells 3/4″ poplar plywood with 11 plys + two face plys (AB grade I believe). At $30/sheet, it’s pretty good stuff. Does it just fall apart in a year? Or does it most likely last a long time if backprimed and painted? With my screen porch roof and front porch roof, I will probably have 35-40 sheets, so if I can save 50% of the cost of real beadboard I’ll be saving some good money.
Any kind of exterior MDF I should be looking for?
I can also get 1/2″ ACX for $40/sheet (uhhh…ouch!).
Just looking for thoughts.
MERC.
Replies
How about using 1/2 or 3/4" MDO ( not MDF ) plywood.
The smooth face paints real well, and it will definetely stand up outdoors.
My local yard has the 1/2" for $45.75, and the 3/4" for $77.60. I know its not exactly cheap, but its a nice product.
I agree with the MDO..but have ta ask..will the grooves go lengthwise on the porch cileing?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Watch out for the edges, it's really fast out there...
I wonder if the MDO would really hold up outdoors in this application? The "O" isn't all that thick, and the V-grooves you cut would go through it into the ordinary wood.
-- J.S.
I'll double what has been said. The core is FIR with an exterior glue (radio frequncy cured IIRC). Some can be had with paper both sides or just one face.I lived near a Ryder truck refurbishing center, they would rebuild the trucks after wrecks and damages. They used MDO for the lift doors in the back, and it was pretty stout stuff..I made some outdoor shelveing from scraps..lasted quite well.I miss the dumpster diving from there..lotsa goodies.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Watch out for the edges, it's really fast out there...
What is the core of MDO? When I rout a groove into it, will I'll be able to sand it relatively smooth, at least paint grade? At $45/sheet, that is $1.40/sq ft. Then I got about one hour in each sheet making the grooves and sanding. I "bill" myself at $25/hr (tax free of course) so the effective cost of a sheet is $70 or $2.18/sq ft. So question is, at that time would I rather just by the 1x4 beadboard @ $2.20/sq ft and have the real thing. I'm not sure $25/hr is reasonable for that back breaking work.
The porch ceiling I haven't decided on. Actually I'm not sure how plywood with grooves will work. Normally the joinsts between plywood is covered with some 1x2. I can make the joints in one direction disappear by using a groove, but the other I can't do that. So I guess I just hope it looks ok? It might bother me. I have to live here forever.
The screen porch roof is cathedral and it's a 25' wide gable, 12 pitch roof. So it's a lot of ceiling. I was thinking the grooves would run parallel to the ridge so as not to make the ridge look any higher than it already is. The one thing about using 1x4 beadboard on the porch ceiling is that 16' beadboard will have about a 2" cutoff and span the entire porch ceiling. Of course, with that dimension, plywood would cover with the same efficiency.
MERC.
Edit: Another thing is my soffits are about 31", so I'm tossing some large cutoffs of ply, raising the effective per sq ft cost significantly. Now obviously I'd use the cutoffs somewhere for something (like storage shelves in the shed or workshop), but I don't really need MDO for that.
Edited 1/10/2005 7:39 pm ET by DJ Merc
The MDO plywood is basically an exterior grade fir plywood with a phenolic-type paper face. At least, the stuff my yard carries is. Its used extensively in the sign business, so it holds up very well outside.
You might have some voids to fill when you route those grooves, but you'd probably have to deal with voids in most other types of plywood.
Edited 1/10/2005 7:59 pm ET by Shep
I too would vote for MDO on the soffits. If anything, it holds paint even better than solid wood -- even when fully exposed to the weather. For your porch ceiling, I would be inclined personally toward standard bead board -- which can look terrific with a stain/varnish. If you are going to paint it, you might check out Azek; they have a bead board (plastic), which comes in double widths. As for the MDO on your porch ceiling, I did one recently which we painted, and then used natural finish 1 1/2" battens. We covered the seams, then ended up doing a kind of Frank Lloyd Wright pattern, which looked interesting and unusual.
The Azek is $4/sq ft, so that has been ruled out. I agree that beadboard does look quite nice, I just need to be careful with whatever I do because it's such a large expanse of ceiling. That and my new office looks out onto the screen porch from the second floor so I have to stare right at the ceiling for a long time everyday.
MERC.
As I recall, when I checked it out the Azek bead board was about the same price as clear fir beadboard; remember the Azek is a double width.
> I have to stare right at the ceiling for a long time everyday.
Even with a computer and Breaktime available to you? ;-)
-- J.S.
Yes, I spend about 50% of work day on Breaktime and 50% looking out the window. And I still get paid!
Just kidding of course... MERC.
I've been cureus about the same thing. There is a notorious hack-carpenter i know of who just tore off all of the ceder bevel siding on a house to replace it with some weird creation that i can only describe as extirior wainscoating (sorry, i dont know how that word is spelled) made from some whole sheets and some ripped sheets of what looks like bcx ply.
measure once
scribble several lines
spend some time figuring out wich scribble
cut the wrong line
get mad
FWIW, the Plywood Institute or whatever it's called in their standards allows soffits to be finished with non-exterior plywood. They allow the next grade "down" (which is either exposure 1 or exposure 2, but I can't remember which).
Nice call!
Exposure Ratings
Construction plywood is also rated by the APA according to one of four weather durability classifications. These include:
Exterior: These sheets have a fully waterproof glue joint and are designed for use in areas that are permanently exposed to moisture or weather. LI> Exposure 1: These also have a fully waterproof bond and are designed for use where the construction process will subject them to long periods of weather exposure before they are fully protected.
Exposure 2: This grade is intended for use in protected construction areas where they will only be exposed to moderate moisture or weather conditions.
Interior: These sheets are limited strictly to use in protected interior environments.
So I need to make sure whatever I use is Exposure 2 and not "interior". Hmmm...I wonder if the guy at HD will know ????? Haha.
MERC.
Look at the stamp on the sheets.
What about T1-11 OSB? It is available outside of Alaska right?
I have an image in my head, which may or may not be founded, that t1-11 is junk. Something about it just doesn't appeal to me.
MERC.
It is used as a final siding on ALOT of homes here, although I think it looks ugly and cheap, as siding. I love it for soffits and screen porches. It is very durable, and as siding holds up well to the sometimes 6' of melting snow against it in the spring. Living in one of the most extreme weather places in North America, and having the most expensive lumber prices, you learn to appreciate good materials. As far as soffits go T1-11 OSB is quick, durable and looks good. IMO.
I couldn't't really see that much detail in your pic, but I don't see any difference between T-111 and the stuff you made, except that it looks like you made the groves go across the sheets rather than lengthwise. Maybe I'm wrong about the grove direction but I can't really make any sense of making the groves go width wise since the soffits are 31". Simple math in respect to waste of material. If you don't like the texture of, or otherwise the look of T-111, I can understand you not using it, but from a durability standpoint, it's just as good if not better than the stuff you are using, assuming you would use the thicker T-111, not to mention the time involved. Also, the way T-111 laps is pretty nice. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big T-111 fan, and to me it is mainly for sheds, although I know in some areas they use it for houses. What you are doing is going to yield a decent look though, so I'd say keep up the good work. Really though, I'd bet you $100 that if you use a better product on the lower soffits, that has the same groove configuration, no one is ever going to notice it, and you would be just throwing your money away. I do understand the comfort of living in an over built house, but in retrospect (in my own case) I'd rather have a Road King to go with the house.
BTW - I'm pretty familiar with real estate value in our area and I'd say that True T&G would be good if you think your finished project is going to be worth 700k, although it might be nice on the porch ceiling where the viewer's eye would be close. As far as the porch ceiling and a 4x8 sheet product, you could break the ceiling into sections with kind of a coffered look like the attached pic.
Humm - it wouldn't let me post a pic. I'll try in the next post. Matt
Looks like the web server is having some problems...
Here is the pic
Matt
Yes my old porch sort of looked like that, but it was a flat ceiling. But now I have this 12 pitch ceiling and the ridge is 22' from the porch floor. So I think the natural variation of beadborad is probably the best. But on the other hand, my front porch ceilng is < 8' so it will close inspection for years and years. If I decide to manufacture something in the interest of saving money, it better be good stuff. If it's not, it'll aggitate me enough that I'll eventually redo it. Just better to spend the money first if that is the only thing I can live with.
I guess I just need to go out and stare at it and make a decision. Maybe I can find some finger jointed pre primed beadboard that will keep the cost down some. At least I wouldn't have to mess around priming all that stuff myself.
MERC.
That sounds good. I know you did not say this but I'd recommend against anything like a stained and varnished type treatment. In our area, in 5 to 10 years they tend to get spots on them and end up needing refinishing. What a nightmare... Maybe they work better in dryer climates.
Matt
That is interesting. My BIL has had polyurethaned beadboard on his porch since I think 1998 and it looks great. He lives just a few miles from me.
So you have seen poly'd soffits start looking bad? Sounds like an "excuse" to buy some good spray equipment and recoat yearly. "You know, dear, those soffits aren't going to look good unless I coat them once a year or so..."
MERC.
No, not soffits - porch ceilings. And I think I even read about one here... Never seen clear coated soffits around here...
Personally, IMO, I think anytime you clearcoat anything outside, you are just asking for maintenance... OK, I guess, if you like that kind of thing... Matt
Re: a varnish finish for a porch ceiling (bead board)You for sure don't want to use polyurethane, since that is a film finish, and if you let it go too far before recoating, you really have to strip it off. A better alternative would be an oil/varnish wipe on product. You can buy it (Watco exterior), or make it yourself by combining poly and an oil. The main virtue of the wipe on finish is that it kind of gradually wears away and can be recoated at any time. A protected porch ceiling will look good for 10 years before it shows signs that a recoating (with the same mixture) would be advisable to freshen it up.An oil by itself will have a dull finish, but if you mix your own, you can find the sheen level you prefer -- which in my case is a very soft satin glow.The down side is application mess. I generally brush it over relatively small areas (very carefully, to avoid drips and splashes), and wipe it as I go. You could also use an HVLP set up to apply it, but you still have to wipe it out.
Interesting...Matt
That's a nice looking ceiling.