Looking for ideas on how to create a non-combustable wall for a wood stove. The stove is going in a corner. The room is down to studs and subfloor. The chimney pipe is already installed and the stove had been spaced away from the wall as if it was a combustable wall (which it currently is) –distance based on the manufacturers guidelines for the stove for combustable walls.
So technically I don’t have to go noncombustable wall, but I thought if it wasn’t too much hassle, I’d go ahead and put it in. Just another measure of safety.
The finished look I was shooting for was maybe something similar to one of these 3 pics (from the web). I kinda prefer a tiled look over a bricked one:
But this isn’t bad either:
I kinda like the half wall look rather than simulating a masonry chimney by extending it to the ceiling.
jt8
“I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said ‘I don’t know.'”
— Mark Twain
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I used hat channel and asbestos stove board for my first stove install in a trailer, when I was 16.
Now, I'd use hat channel and hardie board . remember to leave an opening atthe bottom and top for convection cooling and I had used Zbrick on that first install ( hey, I was 16, whaddid I know?).
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Latest Architectural Digest has a 4 page spread on Zbrick in trailers.
Joe H
I had used Zbrick on that first install ( hey, I was 16, whaddid I know?).
I think that's the stuff we had around our wood stove on the house I grew up in. Probably part of the reason I don't care for brick surrounds now, because if I don't see the full depth of brick sticking out, my brain just thinks "fake looking brick".
I'd use hat channel and hardie board
Cool, that was along the lines of what I was thinking, but I didn't know if it was the 'correct' way. hardie-hat-stud. Maybe paint the bottom plate black so that the gap isn't as obvious. Wasn't sure how to make the top gap less visible if I was only going halfway up the wall (4'-ish). Maybe top gap and then some trim above it?
jt8
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said 'I don't know.'"
-- Mark Twain
" hardie-hat-stud."No - It needs to be hardie/hat/sheetrock/stud.You have to have the layer of separation. if the metal hat is directly on the stud, heat is transferred through by conduction
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For peace of mind I would expand the size of the hearth and forget about protecting the walls. Modern airtights already have double walls to dissipate heat. My Regency woodstove is 5" from the drywall and even after several days of continuous use, the wall surface is only warm - no more so than it would be if exposed to direct sunlight. I installed one several years ago in a Panabode (square log) building where the setbacks in a corner were 3". Same result.
Fires started by properly installed woodstoves are invariably caused by two sources: Embers falling from the door that ignite combustible flooring beyond the hearth, or chimney fires due to creosote build-up.
My Regency woodstove is 5" from the drywall
What did you do for the floor? Is it on a pad, brick, tile, what?
jt8
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said 'I don't know.'"
-- Mark Twain
"What did you do for the floor? Is it on a pad, brick, tile, what?"
My main floor is a concrete slab saw cut on 3 ft centers and grouted. So you could say the whole house is a hearth.
Modern airtights already have double walls to dissipate heat.
That's a pretty broad statement. Some do, some don't.http://grantlogan.net/
"he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho
You are probably right. I have never seen any for sale around here that don't. But regardless, the manufacturer's setbacks will reflect that. And if they allow a 5" clearance to combustible surfaces, I don't see any reason to provide additional shielding.
"if they allow a 5" clearance to combustible surfaces"I would want to be 100% sure they cover that with documentation and not just sales brochures claims. And be sure to interpret it right. I have seen people use all sorts of weird interpretations of the codes on this to try to kill themselves and family.I used to have a wood stove heating store and have installed somewheres close to a thousand units of all kinds. I admit I haven't kept up with all the latest and greatest, but I have a hard time believing they can make an effective heater that is legal and safe as they show in the photos. And they do nothing to convince me with the website.
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Regency woodstoves come with a stamped metal label on the stove which shows setbacks to none combustible surfaces in all directions. The setbacks are ULC (Underwriters Laboratory of Canada) approved, and it is these setbacks that the building inspectors use. They also have detailed drawings for installation in corners and alcoves.
The stoves are only double walled on the sides and rear - where understandably impeding the radiant heat is not as important, and given their efficiency rating it's not really an issue.
I understand your gut concerns, but these stoves, and the similarly constructed Pacific Energy models, are among the most widely used in Western Canada. There simply have not been issues around fires where the approved setbacks are followed.
My stove is installed in an alcove with double walled pipe. In power failures the top is hot enough to cook on, while the drywall behind - yes 5" behind - remains no warmer than my cats belly. Given what I've said, I don't really see there the inaccuracies of my response were.
I left the pdf manual downloading when I went to work this morning so I can finally see that detailing. I see also that many dealers in Maine carry this stove, so I will take a good look to satisfy myself. Without the heat shield they show clearances similar to what our codes normally allow with the heat shielding. The 4" is when there is a heat shield in place, and it is installed in the corner so that small dimension is corner to wall only. When backed up to a wall, the minimal appears to be 6", provided you can still maintain the 18" stove pipe to wall.There floor protection requirements would definitely not pass muster here though. Anyone who buys and installs one in the states should still check how their local AHJ would interpret all the rules.
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What would you suggest for the floor? Currently it has 2x10 joists with Advantech on top. As last winter's utility heater, I had it on a $30 pad, but that isn't suitable for a finished application. The LR will eventually get some form of hardwood floor. I haven't decided if that means REAL 3/4" thick stuff or the fake, thinner stuff.
jt8
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said 'I don't know.'"
-- Mark Twain
Just want to add some fuel to the fire..... ha ha ha
Sheetrock is considered a combustible, lots of people are suprised to hear this.
The biggest problem I have seen is the single wall vent leaving the stove, nobody really addresses that. The stove ends up with the required clearance and the double/triple wall vent gets its required clearance, but nobody thinks about the short length of single wall.
My Napoleon has clearances listed for both single wall stovepipe and double.
jt8
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said 'I don't know.'"
-- Mark Twain
"nobody really addresses that."I have a number of times.Just in case you missed it - 18"
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With anything that has legs or a pedestal mount, the main concern for flooring is that it has a noncombustible SURFACE, which is different than a non combustible assembly. So tile or anything that won't catch afire when you drop embers on it.Dimensioned from front opening it must be 12" to the side of the opening and 18" to the front
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Even IF the stove has an underwriters seal allowing for the stove to install that close, the pipe still has to be 18" for combustibles unless a heat shield cuts it down to 9".I looked at that Regency site and they don't have anything showing that it is safe and legal to install as they claim at 4.5". The claim is that it is OK to go to 4.5" in the BACK. But then they show a lot of pictures with them in corners with back corner that close, which means that the sides are much closer than would be normally approved. Any inspector I have known would interpret back to mean back only and apply standards for the sides to the ENTIRE side.Beyond all that, the way a wood stove heats is primarily by radiation. If they find a way to reduce radiant heat off three surfaces enough to actually make it safe in such close proximity to the walls, then they are reducing the heat output of the unit, which begs the question, why install something that will not give off much heat?
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Beyond all that, the way a wood stove heats is primarily by radiation. If they find a way to reduce radiant heat off three surfaces enough to actually make it safe in such close proximity to the walls, then they are reducing the heat output of the unit
I think you're right. The reduced clearances vs heat output are tradeoffs. I think people are up-sizing to make up for it. Instead of a small unshielded stove, they end up with a medium shielded one. But since most folks probably just look at the 'sqft heated' number anyway they probably won't notice.
My Napoleon 1400 has fairly low clearance restrictions with double-wall pipe (4-6-10):
View Image
It is UL 1482, EPA certified, DEQ certified, and a few others.
But to attain the lower clearance restrictions, it has shielding on most of 4 sides of the cube. It is hard to see on my black one, but you can see the shielding on this cream colored one in the ad. The cream sides, back and top are all shielding. Tap on 'em and the back & sides sound like a steel drum.
With it fired up, the side vents put out heat like a furnace register, but the surrounding walls never get hot. I increased their minimum setbacks because I currently just have studs. So I added for future drywall and added for future tile plus a bit more for peace of mind. But someone used the analogy of the sun shinning on a wall, heating it up...well, I don't think the surrounding walls even got that warm even when I've had the stove burning full bore for hours.
View Image
But then I've got a medium sized wood stove that puts out the equivalent of a small, unshielded one.
IMO, a non-combustable surround would add to the peace of mind, and would help cover the bases if someone in the future were to put a different stove in.
jt8
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said 'I don't know.'"
-- Mark Twain
On a related note...
I spent my summers in PEI when I was young, and many of the towns had beautiful large houses from late 1800s, similar to those found through out coastal New England. They were quite large, but were ingeniously designed so that you could close off areas and retreat into a core living space during cold weather to limit the heat used.
Do the owners of the houses you work on still expand and contract their houses with the seasons? Or has that tradition died with central heating and modern insulation.
Dead concept now. Most of these old places have all been modernized, electrifized, insulized, - anything but economized.
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OK, lets try this again, the first time it timed out.
Friend is taking down a gum tree. Gum tree isn't listed on my firewood chart. Do you have any idea of the suitability of gum trees as firewood? (probably sweet gum, he menionted the spikey balls).
jt8
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said 'I don't know.'"
-- Mark Twain
OK, You found my Achilles heel.No idea from here.Bump
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Well dried it burns fine, about like Poplar heat wise. Splitting it is hell, about like elm (IIRC) interlocked grain I think.
Once had a hunk of Old, almost too old Sycamore...3 maul handles later, I just chainsawed it and buried it. Gum ain't quite that bad.
Here is some...... http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/gum.htm
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Edited 9/12/2007 7:46 pm ET by Sphere
Ugh, John, sweet gum, down here in Georgia, anyway, is cull wood from the get-go. Hard to split, won't burn worth a cuss. I tell my Boy Scouts to avoid it, that it burns with a cold flame. Really to be avoided for firewood, and as a landscape tree, it's awful. Those spikey balls are bad enough, but, 'round here, the tops die out of the trees when they are mature.
Greg
there is a lot of inaccurate generalization going on in that post. Most wood stoves that have closer tolerances are still only approved to 18" clearance and some go to 9" on the back only, not the sides. You have a link to show the underwriters or even manufacturers recommendations to install that close?I think your recomendation can burn down a lot of homes. And your invariable is not invariable. There are a lot of fires started in the wall behind wood stoves installed too close. Some that people never even see, because the studs char in place without erupting into full spreading fire.
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Try a sheet of copper, but not if you're going to try to keep it pristine. You can make your own brake and extend it from the wall to go under the stove. I used adhesive ( ? brand ) to fix it to the wall and then decorative copper nails around the perimeter. You can also frame it with wood on the floor so the edge is not a factor.
All three of those are basically the same. just the surface is noncombustible. They employ the heat shield principle. You suspend your cement board an inch off th e origianl sheetrock such that it can vent air in at the bottom and out at the top. Sometimes the sides are trimmed close so you don't have to look in and see all the cobwebs.
Then you install the tile over the cement board and trim it out. You still have a combustible wall, but many jurisdictions recognize the heat shield as a way to reduce required clearances by 50%
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here is mine.Haga su trabajo de fricken
Ever miss the dart board and hit the brick?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
ROAR! That was the first thing I saw!
That and the fact that BB has learned how to use the gamma correction slide in his irfanview. snorK*
be now if he'll just learn how to keep the file size down to 100KBs and below.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
Edited 9/7/2007 8:31 am ET by rez
Isn't your whole house non-combustible masonry?
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yes, but i do go overboard at time. I have a wooden closet door, does that count.Haga su trabajo de fricken
At my hunting camp, read stud walls, no drywall, I used metal studs to fir out the wall and floor to allow for air circulation, screwed in Durarock, CA'ed slate to the Durarock. If it was my home I would have refined the slate to Durarock process somewhat, but you get the point.
Not a great photo, but:
http://www.lapointeproperties.com/images/grants3.jpg
It's a cabin we've stayed in a few times. They used sheet metal mounted about 3" from the using bolts with spacers.
I bought 4 pcs of slate 1 1/2" thick 2'x4' wide, and did 2 pcs int the rear and 2 underneath. Looks great and holds a lot of heat for a while. My yellow lab loves it too!