Replies

1. 
   Edgar76b | Jun 29, 2002 06:19am | #1

   I'm not sure I am visualizing Properly. Is there a radius or is it Octagonal, rectangular ? Do you have a choice? is the porch old work? Obviously it isn't 360' or that would be a sculpture.

1. 
   JeffBuck | Jun 29, 2002 09:59am | #2

   Platforms would work.....but regular stringers may be easier...just with wider spans at the bottom. Fan them out...the top step being the smallest radius. Not that difficult in the end....start with the two outside....then infill as needed. Jeff   She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!

1. 
   Edgar76b | Jun 29, 2002 03:52pm | #3

   I think you meant to reply tpo JAGCONT, jeff . But i ask you ,What are you using for treads?

2. 
   johnnysawzall | Jun 30, 2002 07:33pm | #5

   The porch is a rectangle and he wants the stairs also to be a rectangle. I read what Jeff wrote but won't the outside stringers that make up the bottom step show at the top?  I would rather use stringers then build 3 platforms but I can't visualize it, usually my strong suit but in this case I can't see it. What do you think?

2. 
   jeffn7 | Jun 29, 2002 05:44pm | #4

   I know how it is if the "client wants it", but won't this layout result in stairs that are really awkward to walk up or down on... possibly even dangerous?

1. 
   johnnysawzall | Jun 30, 2002 07:38pm | #6

   I don't think it will be dangerous it was in a magazine the clients wife saw and the way he drew it it didn't look bad. I just want the easiest way to do it short of constructing something I'm going to need another permit for! Any ideas???

3. 
   Piffin | Jul 01, 2002 04:00am | #7

   I've done a few square and one radiused. I chose to go with platforming them because the stringers would have to lead up to something and the top step is it sometimes. With platforming, it is stable all the way.

   It is safe to walk on though handrail placement can be hard to figure out if codes enforcement holds you to it.

   Draw out every detail before you start because the geometry can fool you. The base gets pretty big. The top landing needs to be large enough to be safe, considering that back step to open a screen door towards yourself.

   These type tend to be more comfortable at a pitch of about 6/14 instead of the typical 7/10.5

   If your surface material is like 1x4, be sure to pack in plenty of nailing material in the cormers, where the joints are at the change of direction.

   Above all, have fun - new and different creative work is one of the great joys of being in this business. Do a job you can look at next year and say, "I built that" with that swell of pride in your chest.

   Good Luck.

   Excellence is its own reward!
1. 
   johnnysawzall | Jul 01, 2002 05:49am | #8

   Thanks for all the info it was very informative.  It runs along the same way I thought it would, I was just hoping for an easier way.  Sometimes (all the time?) the hard way is the right way.  Thanks again, and you were right on with the pride thing sometimes I wonder if the $ is a bonus.

2. 
   Edgar76b | Jul 01, 2002 08:18pm | #9

   I am visualizing a deck with suficiant room for opening the door on the top landing. If you could figure it out, how to use stringers. It might be less Framing.

   I am visualizing  a step pyrimid type design. Is that right.  Unless you Fan them out and mount them like a hip rafter, I don't see a way to do it. Get some teco hangers to mount them at the top. You could use a ledger board too.  Although, someone might accuse you of being a cabinetmaker. Some people might just nail it . It's up to you I guess.  Double up the angled stringers. You will have one nailed flat against the wall, on Both ends.  In between the 2-45' stringers, you can place them straight , like a standard stringer. Mitre your treads around the corners. It is probably a good idea to pour a pad for them to rest on. Since you are going to all the trouble. Hand rails can run down the center. Obviously, the tread cut will be flat. Cut out your rise cut on a 45' on your angled stringers.  Cut them all at once, Set your circular saw to 45'.  2 angle one way two the other way.  Then You can sister the 2 together, opposeing each other, to make the corner. Unless you won't be using risers. then it May not matter.  if that is the case The only cut you need to angle is your top plumb cut, on your angled Hip stringers.

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1. 
   johnnysawzall | Jul 02, 2002 09:33pm | #10

   Thanks for the info it was very informative and very in depth. I appreciate your time. I start on monday and I'll let you know how it comes out.Thanks again.

1. 
   Edgar76b | Jul 03, 2002 02:39am | #11

   Hey Jagcont.  

       Another thing to consider when laying this out.  If you  Visualize this from the air. Your diagonal stringers, (being the Hypotynuese of a triangle). are going to need to extend longer, than the straight stringers . My guess is that tread cut or (seat cut ) will need to be about  25 % longer. per tread ( Or what ever it needs to be ), on each tread cut. The problem Is your plumb cut stays the same.  Since you are already using a 2 x 12 for stringers .Depending on your rise and run. A  2 x12  may not be wide enough. Maybe you can "Extrapolate"( or extend ) the length of each tread cut. Off the edge of the board. It is hard to explain with words.

         Since,You can only safely go ,so deep into your stringer.  What I propose is ,When laying out these stringers , having calculated the needed amount. Take it out past the edge of your board. Remembering the long point of your rise cut is the starting point for your tread length. ( if you are using 2 sistered stringers, the long point will be in the center. )

         You might need to use 2 steel squares , some pony clamps , whatever, to trace it. Your starting point for your next plumb cut will be out in space. A finised stringer will have the apperance of a cut stringer, with all of the tips knocked of.  Using risers they will support your tread, on each corner return. 

        Ok Assuming you know your rise and run. The run of the tread will represent Both legs of the Triangle, formed by the bisecting diagonal stringer. if you use:

   The formula

    A squared + A Squared= C squared    

   C= the length of your tread run to the long point.

   if you multiply   C x the # of treads = total run

   Your rise stays the same.

   example A = 10"    C will = 14.142 ( about 14 3/16" )  Times 4 treads = 56.568  ( about 56 9/16") of course the rise is dictated, by your chosen run.   ( for this equation 7" is about standard.)

    Also, about the positioning of the Flat end Stringers. Although they will be the same dimensions as the front main stringers,They have to be Positioned just right too. They may need to fit into the angle created by the hip Stringer.  If you use a dbl stringer it will change the width. You might have to trim the Plumb cut to line it up. Do these last.

   You can  choose to cut the riser cuts on a 45' angle. I think it will be a 45' Will it be? It is easier to use a dbl stringer If not you will have to imagine the long point. The short point will be the same as your front stringers. You have to figure it . You must use a riser anyway  (unless you want to ease the corners. 

   Your risers can run wild. Mitre, glue and nail them, under the turn.  Your top tread should be one peice. Probably with mitred returns. All the rest will have  a longer return, Obviously. I Think that is all. 

                I wonder if anybody knows, what the hell I am trying to say? Does it work out? I wonder myself. Sometimes you just have to do it. To find out what you need to know. I am doing this in my head. I have never done this before, I wish I could try it with you. Keep me posted. I would like to know How you come by that tread length, for those corner stringers. Is there an easier way? I know it is probably on the chart on my steel square.  

   I think it will work ,let me know how you made out. Happy Fourth everybody!

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4. 
   cwpp1 | Jul 08, 2002 04:35am | #12

   If it is 4' high your riser will be 8" and tread 12". It is a platform build. The bottom step will be 11' long and return 5'. The next one is 9' long with 4' returns. Next is the 7' with a 3' return and then a 5' tread with a 2' return and the top step will be 3' long with no return. This make a step down from  3 sides. A tier effect like a cake.

   You can increase or decrease the sise of the tread but I don't think it will helpGood luck this should be fun.

   Charlie

1. 
   Edgar76b | Jul 08, 2002 04:47am | #13

   6@8" seems a little high to me I think you ought to flip it and do 8 @ 6" by twelve or more. if you have the room. that would be an easier climb. I think it might be a code issue too.

   Edited 7/7/2002 9:52:56 PM ET by Edgar76b

5. 
   Edgar76b | Jul 11, 2002 09:47pm | #14

   Hey jag i am Wondering how you made Out with this! Any Luck?

1. 
   Edgar76b | Jul 11, 2002 11:37pm | #15

   Ok, Who deleted 17? Webtrooper was that you?

   Edited 7/11/2002 5:36:08 PM ET by Edgar76b

2. 
   johnnysawzall | Jul 13, 2002 03:25pm | #16

   Haven't started it yet. I decided to leave it for last to see what scrap p.t. I have left. As soon as I finish it I'll let you know what happened. Thanks for all the help you guys have been great.

1. 
   Piffin | Jul 13, 2002 06:00pm | #17

   You'll have plenty of scrap PT when you're done.Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   Edgar76b | Jul 13, 2002 10:35pm | #18

   Crypticism?

1. 
   Piffin | Jul 13, 2002 10:52pm | #19

   I'm a clinicly cryptical cynical critic commentating cooly.Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   johnnysawzall | Jul 21, 2002 05:29pm | #20

   Still haven't touched those steps yet. Its a total remodel on a summer cottage so I'll be there for awhile yet. Will keep in touch, thanks for the help.

3. 
   Edgar76b | Aug 06, 2002 01:31am | #21

   yeah I want to know, if It work, looking forward to see how you handled it."I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground" 

4. 
   Edgar76b | Sep 08, 2002 06:13pm | #22

   Hey How's it goin over there?"I was born in the country, razed in the city, I'm a natural born shaker from my hips to the ground" 

5. 
   johnnysawzall | Sep 15, 2002 03:55am | #23

   Crazy as all hell!!  Finished that remodel job, steps came out good.  I just framed them like a box and put nailers in the corners to pick up the 45s. The client was happy I got paid (so I was happy too) and off to the next one.So what are you working on now???