So, at the risk of being laughed out of here I’m gonna go ahead and post this anyways.. I got a little overzealous in my plumbing endeavor, and notched the crap out of some floor joists. And now I’m wondering how to fix them. I was thinking about somehow heading off the damaged joists, but cant figure out how to get around the length of pipe that runs between the joists. Will sistering be enough? It wasnt until i finished that i realized i should have ran the drain lines between the joists and down the wet wall and connected them in the basement. If anyone has any ideas as to how to fix this without redoing my plumbing, that would be great
Thanks.
thats 3 inch drain line in the picture btw
Replies
aaron
Those joists weren't much to begin with and yes, you proceeded to hack the crap out of them.
What do they span, and could you install a header under them along that drain line highway?
Well, you could re-route the drain, then sister the joists.
But, in theory, if you glue&screw plywood to the tops of the joists when replacing the subfloor (extending several more inches to the right of the notches in your picture, beyond the missing subfloor), and then maybe (for insurance) attach metal straps to the bottom of the joists, you'd have something as strong as the original joists.
(Will probably require removing that studwall you just installed at the upper right.)
", in
", in theory....."
bulshit
How would it not be as strong??
There is no meat left. He cut the heart out of these
So you're telling me a truss is not strong, because there's no "meat" between top and bottom members?
*big grin*
that's so ugly...
From just the pictures I don't see any reasonable way to fix that without moving the plumbing. Maybe you could sister in some much taller joists or add a beam under the whole thing but it might be easier to move the pipe then fix the joist mess with sistering.
If you will excuse this weak carpenter humor at your expense I would say you have real promise as a pro plumber......
Damn plumbers....
yeah I think I'm gonna just redo it. It will look a lot cleaner that way. Its the second floor laundry room so there is gonna be some weight. Plus I'm gonna have a 60 gallon water heater up there too.
Good decision
Anything less would be regretable.
The fix is probably more work than rerouting the pipes.
Whenever a large part of a joist has to disappear the engineers I've used would probably be the most accepting of using a heavy gauge C channel sistered to the wood joists with the hole for the pipe cut and the pipe passed through the cut. (I always try to have in mind the type of material i'd like to use so the engineer doesn't come up with something I'm not familar with. The engineer would turn a few cranks on the calculator and say how thick it needed to be given the load on the joist, the position and size of the hole and however much fudge factor he likes to use.
Not wanting to spend the $500 on an engineer, if it was my house I'd just get some good used C channel at the scrap yard - say 3/16" thick and through bolt it to the existing joists with 1/2" bolts. A fine and tight string line over the floor's surface and a big boned kid jumping up and down in the middle of the joist will give you an idea of if the repair is as stiff as the good joists - it probably would be stiffer.
I have seen repair brackets for something like this - maybe in the simpson catalog, but the fine print says something like it doesn't actually add back all the strength of the original joists....idk.
Im kinda liking the c channel idea. I was over there for a bit today. There is a little bit if deflection on the damaged joists, but surprisingly not much (only measured by my bouncing on it).
I may not have made the C channel description complete enough that we're on the same page. I'm not talking about small C channel scabbed on top and bottom - I'm talking about full length C channel that is the full depth of the floor joists and are attached to the side of the existing joists - essentially a steel joist!. I don't want to be associated with scabbing on braces to the top and bottom of the notch and calling it properly fixed - it won't be.
How are you attaching the C channel (top, side, bottom?), and how do you get the pipe through the hole?
i was thinking of sandwiching the joist with two peices of 2 in c channel through bolted across the top.
But wouldn't you have to notch the channel, such that all you really end up with is a strap?
no, the channel should fit just over the pipe
But from the pictures it looks like the pipes are just about flush. You wouldn't end up with more than 1/2" or so.
Yeah it's a weird angle on the photo. There is a little room to work with
So I'm wondering how you get any real stiffness out of 1/2".
I'm talking about something like a 3/16" thick C channel tht takes the place of the floor joist - it would be sistered to the existing joist with two 1/2" through bolts every 16".
The existing plumbing would have to be removed and reinstalled through holes in the C channel.
Scabbing on smaller channels top, bottom or whatever doesn't sound like a good solution to me.
I love saws
Hi Aaron,
Looks like you have really had some fun with a skill saw!
The unfortunate part of the whole thing is that code only allows for 25% of the joist cross section be be removed within the first third of the span (moments are largest in the middle third of a simply supported span). As far as the code is concerned, and you should be concerned, the stength of these joist is 0 (zero).
FIxing them? take the plumbing out, run the pluming in a bulkhead under the floor. strengthen the joists by sistering them.
***Don't simply cover them up and say "out of sight, out of mind" it will come back to haunt you resulting in a sagging floor at the minimum.
A header below the joists will not solve the problem, unless you ran 2, one on either side of the pluming, with blocking between each joist. check local code on this option if you are considering it.
Sorry Aaron, wish I had better news for you.
Good luck!