Anybody have a good form that says “I will file a lien on your property ten days from now if you don’t hurry up and PAY!”
I’ve been jerked around enough waiting for payment, the property is a house that is for sale. Owner is out of state. All I ever hear is check is in the mail. It has been thirty nine days since work was completed. The amount is small – $900.00
Law is you have to give owner ten day notice that you are filing a lien.
I am the General on this, I used a sub for the concrete work. I did the carpentry. Concrete Sub has been paid.
I don’t know how to file a lien, but will be at county clerks office on Mon Morning to learn.
Any Tips?
Replies
This site appears to have some good infor for your state.
http://www.nationallienlaw.com/Forms.asp?StateID=6
Thanks,
I've run across a few sites like that, but this one lays it out nice and simple.
Just send a certified letter, return receipt requested.
Just the facts, list dates to time bound the recipient. No emotional language, no fancy words, no plaintive wails late in the night, no threats.
It's business.
You read my mind. It is very tempting to threaten to repossess the concrete. That would get a reaction!
But, I have been nothing but unflappable with this client.
Wouldn't it be just my luck to have a thousand dollar limit on liens.
Thanks Everyone
David
Well then, it sounds like a $100 late penalty fee is in order!
Been wondering if I could do that, legally.
we have a concrete company that will reposses the concrete. it written on the ticket, and they do jack hammer the slab. I really believe they will push a house off the slab to jack hammer
I think I will include that caveat in my proposals from now on. Same goes for windows and doors.I know my concrete sub will repossess slabs, he has gone as far as taking his skid steer with breaker to a deadbeat homeowners driveway, at that point, H.O. was willing to pay.Also saw a framer take a chainsaw to a house he built when owner refused to pay. I think that one ended up in court.
Why don't I ever get to see any fun stuff like that?
Dave I was thinking the same thing.
Be carefull with that line of thought.
Reposseing material once it is part of a structure or property can be real dicey. You may be liable for any damage to the property as a result of removing the material. You may also be liable for damages to the property caused because you removed the material.
Best let the lein take it's course. And in this state we are allowed to recover reasonable legal cost, late payment fees and interest. All of that should be written in the contract, but even if it was not and you can document your work and collection efforts, you can still collect the original amount and burden of collection.
BTDT. Took two years but I did get paid on a small job.
If the owner is absentee of leaves town on you, the mechanics lien stays on the property untill they try to sell it or it becomes part of an estate settlement. All liens have to be cleared at those times. You get paid.
With regard to your last line, very true. Have a plumbing contractor friend, filed a lien, and forgot about it. 12 yrs later when the owner sold the house he got his money with interest. Like found money, laughed all the way to the bank.
A former coworker of my wife just finished having a house (approx 1.5 million in construction costs) built (he was his own general - to save money). Through the process of building he built up quite a reputation for being a jerk, refusing to pay for work in a remotely timely fashion... and being heavy handed about asking for a better price after work was done.. ie... if you want to get paid how about a better price than what was quoted. It actually got to the point that he could not get trades in town.. and had to bring in folks from 100 miles away.
Anyway, electrician's work was done, and he was not getting paid... so "mysteriously" one night every wire in his 6000sq ft house was cut near boxes, light switches etc... and sections of wire removed.
Odd how things like that happen.
The law may vary from state to state but removing property even though it has not been paid for after it is in the possession and on the property of the HO as you have said could be construed as criminal and then besides the job would be incomplete .
The term limit of a lien may also vary from state to state here in Oregon I am under the impression it has a 7 year life then you may need to renew. Also not sure if it has been mentioned in this tread but if the house goes into foreclosure your lien is history .
dusty
"Also not sure if it has been mentioned in this tread but if the house goes into foreclosure your lien is history ."It depends on the order of the different liens and the amounts owed and the court house sale value in the property.So if one has a significant lien and they think that there might be value in the property to monitor the situation and maybe even bid on it themself..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I worked for a cabinet shop many years ago. We installed a kitchen in a new house for a builder we had worked for many times. Normally he paid within 30 days, but when it went to 60+ the shop owner got nervouse and started calling. No answer, no return calls, etc.
The cabinet shop owner calls me and ask if I ever got paid for the exterior door i installed before we installed the cabinet and tops. I was in the same boat he was in, but did have an extra set of keys to the doors. He rented a big truck and we removed all the cabinets one sunday morning. I patched all the holes in the drywall and we were carefull to not damage anything durring our unistall. We left the house just the way it was before we installe them. The shop owner then sent the builder a certified letter telling him that he no longer owed for the cabinets and installation.
The builder had filed bankrupcy sometime durring that period. Most every sub on that job got less than 60 cents on the dollar in the settlement. My cabinet shop buddy ended up breaking even by selling the cabinets piece meal out of his shop. The builders attorney made all kinds of threats, but nothing was ever done to follow up on them. I was sweating bullets the whole time, cause I was the guy who had the keys to the house and could have been in deep doo if anyone ever let the cat out of the bag. I later found out that another set of keys had been hidden on the job, so all the subs had easy access to the house.
Never agian!
guess I'm just getting old and lossing my nerve.
There was a case about 15 years ago in Minneapolis where a guy had a brand new house on a lot, and the lot was about to be foreclosed. (IIRC, the lot was owned by his business that had gone under, while he owned the house personally.) The bank was licking their chops, expecting to get the house when they foreclosed on the lot. Working at night the guy "liberated" the house from its foundation and moved it a couple of blocks to a different lot that he owned outright. The bank screamed bloody murder but there was nothing they could do about it -- the guy I think ended up paying a $500 fine or some such for moving a house without a permit, but otherwise got away clean.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
What a hoot!
I once had a fence dispute with a new neighbor. The previouse neighbor and I had both paid for half of a fence on our mutual property line. The new guy says it was not on the correct line and wants me to pay half the cost of moving it. I say no. I'll take down my half and you can do what you want with the rest,..... Ah, my half will be the middle two foot section of the four foot chain link.
He couldn't do squat. I had a canceled check for my half and he had nothing to prove that he or the perviouse owner had paid anything for the fence.
Agree with that; I had a situation here where I did a lot of work for a call centre that was getting set up....wouldn't pay. I was ready to come in and tear it all out....my lawyer, and the senior lawyer he got a second opinion from, told me I couldn't. Under Nova Scotia law anyway, once installed it is the property of the client, even if they haven't paid. I couldn't lien, because the call centre was in a provincial government building while they were training staff, and you can't lien the province. Got paid eventually, but lost a lot on it. The manager of the building got me paid after I told him I was going to the newspapers. Later, I found they only got one rent payment out of the call centre, they defaulted on alll the rest.
Some of the guys on the cabinetmakers forums advise to leave the cabinets if you're having problems.....but take posession of the doors and drawer fronts. Take them back to the shop for 'polishing' until you get paid.
Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
We did the cabinet heist back in 78, so it is now just a freightfull memory.
I did have a storn window/door install once where the HO was prepaying for the job while the order was being built. After the install he was to pay the balance, but couldn't because he had to pay tuition for his kids to go to an exclusive private school. Two months went by and still no money and the phone was no longer in service. A drive across town and an empty house with a for sale sign in the front yard told me I was screwed. I placed a mechanics lein on the property for the balance after the realator jerked me around for two more months trying to get me to install a couple of inserts that had been broken in and accident. Two years later I finally got the balance due me, a lein release form, and very polite note from the new HO asking if I still had the missing inserts. I delivered the inserts and ended up getting several thousand dollars worth of remodel work from him.
I've done a ton of HUD work where I learned to expect a retainage % of the money to be held for a year after completion. I have even done some commercial work and accepeted retainage clauses, but with all builders and individual home owners my contracts called for payment in full upon completion, or within 30 days of completion. Failure to meet the payment terms were to result in immediate legal action, and that clause was seperately intialed, so everyone envolved knew I wasn't going to be jerked around.
As a small one man operation I screwed up enough on my own to make life tough for myself and family. I didn't need any big shot builder or high roller HO helping me into the void :)
i just got my but handed to me in court this week on a tennant eviction,why?
because i only sent the eviction certified! he wasn't home to sign.
so heres what i learned this week. send your notice certified,so you have proof,but also send a copy reg stamp mail.
i gotts hire perry mason next time.larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
"i just got my but handed to me in court this week on a tennant eviction,why?because i only sent the eviction certified! he wasn't home to sign.so heres what i learned this week. send your notice certified,so you have proof,but also send a copy reg stamp mail."You can also get a "proof of mailing" which just shows that you gave the post office a letter addressed to that person.But I suspect that this was small claims court and they often make their own small "adjustments" in the law on the spot and not always case law.Of course for one 15-30 minute session it is not possible to spend a week doing law library searches.I noticed in MO that for trust deed (mortgage) foreclosures they also post a notice on the door for any occupants. I don't know if that is law or just local practice..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
My son was with a group of students trying to get their rental deposit back from a guy who's building was condemned (not their fault for that). The guy was an expert at dodging summonses and they never were able to get him into court.I suspect that the laws vary on this, and it may be difficult to establish the legal notification if the owner is actively dodging it.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Somewhere in the Athens, OH courthouse there is summons for a 35 year old lawsuite with my name on it.To make a long story short I had an airplane hanger on a month to month without a lease. The university came up with a lease that had several problems. One was that the university could not even abide by. They required repayment, but the accounting department would not accept payment without an invoice and no body was generating invoices.They other was a poorly written liability disclaimer that, while intended to release them from liability from a 3rd party, actually released them from any liability from their own actions. And I needed to get it accepted by my insurance company. So I would not sign the lease. So they tried to evict me. All the while the airport office accepting my payments at the END OF THE MONTH.So they tried to sue me. They would not send it registered as I had refused to sign the lease.Gave it to the sheriff to serve.A attorney friend of mine that also had a hanger and also was a fishing buddy of the sheriff reminded him that it was not his duty. So the summons was returned to the courthouse and put "on the shelve"..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Whenever I really want to make sure I can prove that someone got something, I use a deputy sheriff. Usually costs $40-75 and you get a document that proves it was served. If the local law has any special rules about service in evictions, obviously they must be followed, but usually service by a deputy sheriff is good.
I think in Minneapolis you have to hire a paid document server, you pay by the hour, and delivery isn't guaranteed. Just not worth it for a few hundred bucks. (And the guy knew that.)
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
How do you go about asking for that service? Do you call 911 or the non-emergency number? (just kidding)Are these off-duty deputies, or is it a service directly from the sheriff?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I practice in MA and ME, so I can't be sure what they do in other states, but I just call the Sherrif's office and ask to speak to someone about service of civil process. If you aren't a local lawyer, you may be asked to pay up front. Some states may use someone else. Just Google "Civil process in [state]"
For service of legal process, a sheriff will attempt in-hand service, but if unsuccessful, will leave it at the person's residence, attesting that it was left "at the last and usual place of abode." That is typically good enough for the court, because such a method of service is spelled out in most state's rules of procedure. Here's what you get to file with the court.
bill,welcome back, are you under house arrest with a ankle braclett, or did they figure you had served your time. what a mess it was around here.larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
I don't know what happened.I was locked out about 2 weeks before the election and mass bannings.Then Jean Paul announced that they where letting everyone back that emailed.I did and they didn't. So I sent a reminder yesterday.I can only guess that my first request was lost the shuffle..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
"
Australian couple served with legal documents via Facebook
An Australian couple who defaulted on their mortgage have been served legally binding court documents via social networking site Facebook.""n what may be a world first, lawyers from Canberra law firm Meyer Vandenberg persuaded a judge in the Australian Capital Territory's Supreme Court to allow them to serve the documents over the internet after repeatedly failing to serve the papers in person.Lawyer Mark McCormack came up with the Facebook plan after it became clear that the couple did not want to be found.Carmel Rita Corbo and Gordon Poyser had failed to keep up repayments on a $150,000 (£44,000) loan they had borrowed from MKM Capital, a mortgage provider.The pair had ignored emails from the law firm and did not attend a court appearance on Oct 3. Mr McCormack said the pair had "vanished".""Mr McCormack insisted there was no other way to find the pair."They weren't available at their residence. They no longer worked at the place given in some documents as the last place of their employment," he said."The Facebook profiles showed the defendants' dates of birth, email addresses and friend lists – and the co-defendants were friends with one another."This information was enough to satisfy the court that Facebook was a sufficient method of communicating with the defendants."The court decided Facebook was a legally viable way to communicate.But, in granting permission to use the social networking site, the judge stipulated that the papers be sent via a private email so that other people visiting the page could not read their contents.Courts have previously allowed judgements to be delivered by email, but it is not known if Facebook or other social networking sites have been used in the same way."http://tinyurl.com/5jvurf
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William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I can't speak with authority in your state but here in Oregon you can't file a lien for less than $1,000 , civil or small claims court may be your best option if that is truly the case in your state .
Perhaps an official letter from an attorney's office may refresh the memory.
good luck dusty
Don't know where you are and I'm sure laws vary from state to state. But if IIRC in MN where I am originally from and where I used to work as a carpenter the contractor is supposed to include provisions of pre-lien in the contract or serve within 10 days after having a signed contract. Subs can then file lien 45 days from when they first furnished materials or service and contractors can file lien up to 120 days after having last served materials or labor.