FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Oak Flooring

DER113 | Posted in General Discussion on February 19, 2004 02:07am

I’m planning on installing random width (3-1/4â€, 4-/14†and 5-1/4â€) oak flooring on a 45 degree angle in a large room. I’ve done numerous jobs with 2-1/4â€, but nothing larger.
Are there any pitfalls associated with the larger widths?
Can I just blind nail all three widths or do I have to face nail also?
Any tips will be greatly appreciated.

DER

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. VaTom | Feb 20, 2004 02:10am | #1

    Are there any pitfalls associated with the larger widths?

    I hope you're planning for quarter sawn.

    PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

    1. DER113 | Feb 21, 2004 02:27am | #2

      Yes, I am planning on using quartersawn. Do you think blind nailing is OK for widths up to 5-1/4"?

      1. DavidxDoud | Feb 21, 2004 05:16am | #3

        blind nailing is fine for 5 1/4 - - give the flooring all the time you can on site,  spread out or stickered - it's a good time to do a floor -

        1. DER113 | Feb 24, 2004 02:16am | #4

          Thanks a lot for the info.

          When you say it's a good time of the year, do you mean because of the low winter time humidity?

          Do I have to worry about the wider boards "cupping"?

          1. DavidxDoud | Feb 24, 2004 02:38am | #5

            ...because of the low winter time humidity?

            yes - - good if you have time to let the wood aclimate - - the boards will cup under two conditions,  if there is moisture migration from underneath - a good reason to put down a layer of felt paper - - and if the wood is wet enough that the top dries and the bottom can't - -

            is this material pre-finished? - - if you're gonna have to sand it,  you could lay it,  and wait for a month,  that way you'll sand out any minor cup that will occur - obviously,  not all jobs allow for such a generous time window - in which case get it sanded and get the finish on right away to slow uneven drying - -

            where's 'ditch?  he's the expert...

          2. MisterT | Feb 25, 2004 01:57am | #6

            Luvditchburns is the exspurt.

            But I'll throw in my 2c.

            Nail it every 3-4" and use some Adhesive.(glue)

            Mr T

            Do not try this at home!

            I am an Experienced Professional!

            Remodeling Lead Carpenter w/ 20 years exp.

            + A Construction Engineering Degree

            Located in Elmira, NY

            Incessantly Whining Liberal

            Sarcastic Smartass

            Cunning Linguist

            Family Man

            Dog Lover (NOT THAT WAY YOU PREVERT!!!)

          3. DER113 | Feb 25, 2004 02:57am | #7

            Mr. T

            Nailing every 3-4 inches sounds good.

            Since I'd be glueing directly to the subfloor does the loss of a vapor barrier have any negative effects?

            Will an adhesive help prevent cupping?

            What type of adhesive do you like?

            Thanks

            In response to David D, the flooring is not prefinished and I actually do have the luxury of being able to let it sit for a month after installing and before finishing.

          4. ed2 | Feb 25, 2004 07:47am | #8

            don't use vapor barrier on wood subfloor......let material sit in house in actual rooms to be installed(not in garage or basement) for at least a week before install, two weeks way better

            ...if bundled, "crib" stack them, 3-4 bundles on floor spaced foot apart, next course 3-4 bundles stacked perpendicular to bottom stack, again spaced foot apart....if loose long planks, stickers on floor, stickers every few courses

            specs say no glue 5" or less, but i've been gluing everything over 4" wide, avoids cupping and noise....GLUE, Bostik's Best goodstuff, but expensive ....use stripes of pl400 under 5" widths only w/ 4" nailing, bit more spacing w/staples as tend to break tongues on board if too close....staples, set compressor low enough, 65psi as starter to avoid breakage of tongues

            fasteners on 3 & 4" space 8-9 inches

          5. DER113 | Feb 26, 2004 02:18am | #9

            If I go with 4-1/4", 3-1/4" & 2-1/4" boards and drop the 5-1/4 and not glue, should I still not use a vapor barrier?

            Is a vapor barrier not needed on a wood subfloor or is it actually detrimental?

            Can you recommend a source for Bostik's Best?

            Thanks

          6. ed2 | Feb 26, 2004 03:45am | #10

            Hi-  skip the vapor barrier unless it is required...on normal wood subfloor it could be detrimental as far as causing condensation then mildew where there would be no access...you don't need it unless i'm missing something about moisture problem...

            if not gluing you can put down rosin paper, pink, comes 3' rolls...got taught to use the stuff to eliminate wood to wood generated squeaking, not sure it works...guy in same subdivision put down floor when i was too busy, same bldr, framers, subfloor and flooring etc...all he did was sweep and install oak to the deck, been in that house and some i did with rosin paper, no more or less squeaks without it...still use it because people ask about it after they research on the computer...that damn internet...

            don't use tarpaper/black felt, it's a great cushion at first, then it dries up and is useless, worse, in "dip" areas your weight on the floor can cause oak to deflect down, slight sticking with the sound of tape releasing as you walk away and the contact point lets go

            do recommend good sweeping and scrape any joint compound up, renail w/ ringshanks in squeak areas or ply not nailed to schedule...shore up soft spots at seams between joists with blocking underneath...see if you can address crowned areas, level out bad dips...then **vacuum** entire subfloor, gets a lot of crud up that causes noise

            Bostik can be ordered from a warehouse by any flooring store, just checked it quick for a job, wholesale over $100.  on a 5 gal. pail, only 250s.f. coverage, great glue bond though...decided to bid with the stripes of pl400 under each course...for big jobs get pneumatic assist caulk gun, quart tube size @ Grainger's...what part of country you in?

          7. DER113 | Feb 26, 2004 09:11pm | #11

            Thanks for the great info.

            I’m in the Chicago area.

            I don’t know if it matters, but there is basement area (completely dry) under the floor where the hardwood will be installed.

            I’ve never worked with anything wider than 2-1/4 before so I have zero experience with gluing. Consequently,

            I’m not familiar with the pl400 you mentioned a couple of times. What is it?

            I’ve seen thin rolls of cork mentioned as an underlayment, presumably to help with noise. Have you ever used it?

          8. ed2 | Feb 27, 2004 06:59am | #12

            PL400 is construction subfloor adhesive, comes in small caulk gun tubes or the large one-quart size tubes...the large size is easier to work with to eliminate handling...home depot and other yards also carry Liquid Nails brand subfloor adhesive, good product...

            before tapping boards in place, apply a stripe of PL400 down the subfloor to glue that row...best tapping mallet is wood handle with iron head one side, white rubber head on other...white is non-marring, and rubber will not dent leading joint edge, which will show when next board is banged in tight to it...

            cork underlay is good stuff, pricey at about $1.s.f.m will help cut noise, MUST use 2" nails or staples 

            dry basement below is normal install, no vapor barrier needed...

          9. DER113 | Feb 28, 2004 01:35am | #15

            Thanks to all for the great info.

            I greatly appreciate all the help I can get.

          10. DER113 | Mar 04, 2004 02:20am | #16

            One more question.

            The clientis more concerned about quality than time or money and has asked me if a better job is achieved if the adhesive is troweled on overall instead of just stripes?

            Thanks

          11. ed2 | Mar 04, 2004 04:20am | #17

            I glue anything over 4" to help prevent movement/inverted cupping and the noise it causes. If your widest board on the random is 5" just glue those courses. Lot of overkill, expense and time to glue smaller widths. The Bostik is real good stuff, but gluing one course out of three I'd stick with the PL400 for ease, about 1/4" bead. Not worth putting rosin paper down for this install, have to get glue to subfloor every third course of sticks.

            Someone wrote about the extra moisture from new drywall and paint, good advice. Don't know if this is new construction or not, but out of Chicago you deal with winter heating/ dry air same as New England. In the spring and rain periods moisture content goes wild. If you're going to do flooring, get a moisture meter and test the subfloor and flooring when first brought in, then every few days to watch acclimation, log the numbers.

            Go to website for http://www.coastaltool.com and check Delmhorst J-2000 meter for $189, good price, comes in hard plastic case.  That meter adjusts for different species of wood, versatile. They also carry Crain jamb and toekick saws, Bostitch staplers...Checking with a meter can keep you out of a lot of trouble with flooring. Can use it for other stuff if doing GC work, help find roof and plumbing leaks by checking bottom of roof and floor deck sheathing to track wet areas to source.

            To keep floor quiet, try to keep joints staggered 8" or more between courses. Use a mallet with iron head/white rubber striking face. No dents, no black rubber streaks to clean up. Best way is to lay out the whole room first, check the layout for bad seams, discolored boards and cull them out. Then it's production nailing time, apply stripe of glue at each 5" course.

          12. DER113 | Mar 09, 2004 02:34am | #18

            Thanks for the info. Another question.

            Have you ever installed a flush mount electrical outlet with the brass covers?

            If yes can you recommend a source?

            They want 3 of these in different locations about the floor.

          13. ed2 | Mar 09, 2004 05:29am | #19

            check the electrical supply houses, the ones with counters for commercial sales, not just lighting centers. ...haven't installed the units, electricians did that, but use the good stuff...noticed some are flimsy, the good ones heavy brass...might ask for hospital grade or school grade to get quality pieces...work with the sparks to let them know what elevation to set it at so floor can be sanded, leave few pieces of floor stock for their use as pattern blocks. 

            don't like them myself, but w some big rooms and furniture layouts there's no other way to avoid extension cords all over.

          14. dthodal | Feb 27, 2004 07:49am | #13

            I throw a few thoughts at you also.

            It is important to acclimaitze the flooring to the house, but that also presents a potential problem. Most flooring comes from the mill at about 7% moisture, which is considerably less than most house humidity levels when finished. But consider these moisture issues prior or at the time of flooring install; propane heaters, drywall taping, daily in and out travel intoduce alot of moisture into a house during construction. I have seen subfloor moisture over 25% at the time of flooring install. To bring in wood flooring at 7% for a week is asking for trouble if you let it sit for week then install. If you can bring your subfloor moisture down to 10-12% you will have less potential problems of the flooring soaking up moisture then drying out after install.

            Glue will not help and may cause more problems if the flooring is not properly dry. To my mind glue under hardwood flooring is unnecessary and potentially detrimental to the finished product. Keep with the rosin paper. It works admirably at keeping squeaks at bay.

            Most subfloor these days are plywood or other engineered wood byproduct. These serve as good a vapour barrier as 6mil poly. The danger is the uneven moisture potential at the subfloor level and the floor surface level. Rosin paper will help moderate this differential by increasing breathability under the flooring.

            As to nailing, 3-4" spacing is too much; keep it to half that @ 6-8"walk good

  2. ANDYBUILD | Feb 27, 2004 04:55pm | #14

    I started yesterday installing Carliyle old growth Eastern wide pine plank flooring here. 10-15".

    They told me to use "PL Premium" glue every 12" and along the edges(or 30# felt paper). I'm also using hand made 3" cut nails in the face of the flooring.

    Looks too awesome for words and is harder to install than I imagined.

    PS...not t&G......all square edges. Thats how I ordered it to stay in tune with the rest of the house.

    PSS...I lied.......the rest of the house is lap jointed but I decieded to change that detail.

    Be floored

                        andy

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Fast, Accurate Wall Framing

A rear addition provides a small-scale example of how to frame efficiently.

Featured Video

Micro-Adjust Deck-Baluster Spacing for an Eye-Deceiving Layout

No math, no measuring—just a simple jig made from an elastic band is all you need to lay out a good-looking deck railing.

Related Stories

  • Podcast Episode 693: Old-House Hazards, Building Larsen Trusses, AI in Construction
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Finding Hazardous Materials in a Fixer-Upper
  • A Classic Paint Sprayer Gets a Thoughtful Refresh
  • Podcast Episode 692: Introduction to Trade Work, Embodied Carbon, and Envelope Improvements

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 332 - July 2025
    • Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools
    • Fight House Fires Through Design
    • Making the Move to Multifamily
  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work
  • Issue 328 - Dec/Jan 2025
    • How a Pro Replaces Columns
    • Passive House 3.0
    • Tool Test: Compact Line Lasers

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data