I’m trying to come up with a workable approach to controlling heating oil odor in a house. It’ll take a bit of explaining, so please bear with me.
I work for an environmental company in Blacksburg, VA. We’ve been asked by the DEQ to submit a proposal for remediation on a house in a nearby community that has heating oil contamination in the floor and lower walls. (Heating oil tank in the basement, flood, oil floats…). The objective is to eliminate or drastically reduce the oil vapor/odor in the house.
One major problem is that the house isn’t worth much, and the budget is quite limited (I’ve heard guesses of $10-20K). Apparently, demolition and rebuilding aren’t an option.
The DEQ guy has in mind removing the contaminated flooring & subflooring down to the floor joists, and replacing it with a sandwich of plywood and some sort of self-sealing membrane barrier. There is also talk of various basement/crawlspace sealing and ventilation options.
I’ve got serious doubts about the feasibility and effectiveness of all of this, but I’m getting paid to try to find a solution.
Without going into the obvious issues of condensation, mold, and rot, does anybody know of a membrane suitable for this? Any suggestions for how to expeditiously and economically remove the flooring adjacent to the walls where a circular saw won’t reach?
(The first two membranes to come to mind for me were Ice and Water Shield, and EPDM rubber sheet, but I suspect that odor might be a problem with either of them, which would defeat the purpose. It needs to be something suitable for interior use.)
Anybody got a magic bullet?
Thanks,
Dave
Replies
I got the easy part..
there is a flush cutting adapter for certain circ saws..I think it fits Makita and Milwaukee..
That membrane scheme likely won't work..oil can migrate really far with wood..For example a drop of silicone the size of a pin head..can contaminate an entire VW Beetle on the exterior.
I'd be thinking about absorbsion, like lots of lime or dilution with another "aromatic Hydro-carbon" but one that truly is aromatic..scented lamp oil type stuff.
just my 2 cents
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Now that you mention it, I think I remember seeing a picture of that adapter setup.
I'm also skeptical of the whole membrane idea. It takes very little oil to make an offensive odor for a long time. I'm also afraid that getting an absorbent into contact with all the contaminated wood would be a problem, but that could be part of an overall approach.
Thanks.
Polyethylene. Thats what they use for gas, diesel and kerosene cans. Heating oil is basically diesel. Poly is not self-sealing, though. Maybe EPDM under the poly.
Open all the windows and leave it for a couple years. It will eventually evaporate. I really doubt any cheap remediation will work. I wouldn't want to live in a house soaked in diesel. What's going to happen to the insurance? Its flamable and slightly carconigenic. Who's going to sign and certify its safe? The insurance has to cover more than 10K. This is essentially a total loss unless the insurance company has some answers.
Poly over EPDM might be doable.
AFAIK, the HO's are very poor and didn't have flood insurance. If they did, I wouldn't think the budget would be such an issue. I believe this job will be funded by the state DEQ.
I think the DEQ is hoping that we can make enough of an improvement to make the house liveable. I've got my doubts...
Dave
Things that come to mind --
Steam cleaning can remove oil from surfaces such as concrete basement walls and floors. Combine with a pump and a tank truck, for hazardous disposal.
It will also get the surface heating oil from wood, but since wood is a dense sponge, oil will eventually wick out again. And, of course, water will raise the grain.
However, while the surface is clean, you may be able to apply a sealer that will block the migration of the heating oil. I'd check with someplace that specializes in cleaning smoke damage, urine, etc. I found a very effective sealer that I applied to the concrete slab and sheetrock in our living room years ago, to seal out the odor of urine (from a previous owner's cat), but I don't have the name. Got it at a *very* good paint store, as I recall.
There's also stuff sold through firearm parts and supply companies that gun owners use to pull cosmoline (a grease that guns are stored in) out of wood stocks before they're refinished, but I don't know the compound(s) or the bulk price.
Steam cleaning & sealing may be an option. I'll have to run the idea past the Powers That Be.
Thanks
First off, take out EPDM. IIRC, EPDM does not stand up to hydrocarbons. Viton or a Nitrile might work.
Well, duh!
Thanks for the reminder. I knew that, but I guess CRS struck again...
The sealers may be some kind of thinned polyurethane or varnish, to give them better penetration, but I'm not sure. I would think that the longer it takes to dry, the less effective it'd be as a sealer, but again, I'm not sure.
A paint and coatings chemist would probably be able to tell you. I met one, retired from Duron Paints, years ago, and he was a wealth of information. Perhaps, if you start with a particular brand of smoke and odor sealer and call the manufacturer, you can get thru to their tech folks. That has worked for me on several occasions.
Post anything you find out! I'd like to know more!
Good idea. This sort of problem must come up in industrial settings, so an industrial coatings manufacturer may have some answers.
Thanks
>>budget is quite limited (I've heard guesses of $10-20K).
SWAGs:
R&R walls 2' above flood line = $25 linear foot x 300' == $7500.
Insulation? Contaminated waste disposal = $?????, replace = $1000
Paint interior = $2000
R&R flooring = $40 sq ft x 900' == $36000
Steam degrease studs and joists = $1000
(All contaminates run into ground. Can you say EPA?)
OK, I'll do it for $50,000, but you are responsible for:
Contingencies on old house with water damage = $5000 and
EPA fines = $250,000.
Is this still under your budget?
If you can do this under law, I would ask a framer, a drywaller, and a painter contractor to give a ballpark estimates on R&R'ing the walls and floors before I did anything else, given that you have a limited budget.
SamT
Sam,
Your numbers sound a whole lot more realistic than DEQ's budget for the job.
BTW - AFAIK, we wouldn't have to worry about EPA issues & fines - If we follow DEQ's approved plan, we're covered.
Any suggestions for how to expeditiously and economically remove the flooring adjacent to the walls where a circular saw won't reach?
that's the easy one - a chainsaw -
as far as remediation, if I was faced with this situation, I'd expose all the contaminated surfaces and then get mean with a heated pressure washer that dispensed detergent - such units are used in dairy operations routinely, check around to rent - - and actually I believe that would take care of it - - a one time event should mean the contamination is not particularly deep - - if you want more, I like Pete's idea of paint - - in any event, a well detailed reconstruction (subfloor/felt paper/flooring - - block/caulk the wall) should keep the odor out of the living - possibly a powered vent out of the basement if necessary - - just my thoughts - - good luck
And another dope slap for me. We've already got chainsaws, and this definitely wouldn't be a job reqiring a high degree of finish quality. We'd just have to be very careful not to cut floor joists.
Steam cleaning seems like a good approach. It probably wouldn't get it all, but it's got to help.
Powered ventilation is already part of the plan.
Thanks.
Thanks for all the suggestions. Sorry I haven't replied sooner, but my only internet connection is here at the office, and I'm only here sporadically. If anybody has any more ideas, I'd love to hear 'em.
BTW, for those who brought up the issues of contaminated materials & soil disposal, that's not being ignored. It's just covered separately from the structure. We've already removed the old tank and the worst of the contaminated soil.
Again, thanks to all.
Dave
I found that can of odor sealer I'd used before. It's a "solvent-based acrylic sealer for wood and concrete surfaces." Distributed by Professional Chemical Associates, Incorporated. Label says Boston. Here are the 3 closest Yellow Pages matches.
Let me know what you find out.
5 Park Drive, Westford, MA 01886
(978) 392-2267
521 Great Road, Littleton, MA 01460
(978) 952-6868
994 Jefferson Street, Fall River, MA 02721
(508) 676-3838
Thanks. That definitely saves me some research time.
I'll try to remember to keep you posted, but the planning and approval stages for this kind of job often take months. By the time a decision is made, I'll likely be stuck in a completely different quagmire.
Dave
That sounds like another reasonable approach.
Thanks