Somebody help me here! I have 4 offset tin snips, and none of them will reliably cut thinner gauge metal. I was recently cutting a lot of diamond lath, and was frustrated to have to use straight snips as they were the only ones that would cut it every time. Anyone who has cut diamond lath know that this stuff destroys your flesh, and that straight snips put your knuckles in the line of danger.
Here is my problem: My older set of offsets have been used for 15 years, and they are still very superior to my new ones that are hardly used. The old ones are original Leversnips, the company that got the patent on the offset design. The new ones are Wiss Metalmasters, and they suck at cutting anything under 24 gauge. The metal just slides between the jaws.
I have played with the tension on the pivot bolt that connects the jaws, to no avail. I even took apart the Leversnips and honed the mating surfaces, which made them cut better than before, but still not like when new. The Wiss are virginal, and feel sharp at the edges, but they are miserable in use. I hate to waste tools, but I am nearly ready to toss these and buy something else that will work
Can anyone tell me how to fix the Wiss Metalmaster snips so they cut well? Or verify that they are junk, to be replaced by brand Y? I would rather have one left and one right that really cut properly, than to have 2 of each that are annoying.
Sorry for the long post. I appreciate any input about maintenance, good models, etc. Thanks in advance.
Bill (with bloody knuckles)
Replies
I use and electric shear on lath and it's quick and painless, even on splitting full sheets. You do need a power cord but usually not a problem
Rotor,Is you electric shear a standard two-bladed model? What brand? If I did a lot of lath work, I'd run out and buy one today. What I really want is a set of manual snips that will answer the call without tying up too much space or capital. Thanks.Bill
Bill
I did my foundation with Polysteel and was a bit leary of the duability of thier system of covering the exposed surfaces. I decided on lath and stucco. I used 80 sheets of lath and bougt the shear just for that project. I don't remember exactly the cost, I'd guess $130 +/-. It's a Milwaukee, cat # 6850. The tag says 18 ga, it worked for me just fine, not a single bloddy knuckle.
Pete
If you want snips that cut everything like butter, try duckbill snips. They won't become floppy when they loosen like regular tin snips.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
highfigh,Do duckbills come in an offset version that keeps hands out of the way of the sharp edges? That is what I want. The snips I am describing in the first post are offset aviation-style snips.Bill
I have seen old duckbills in an offset version, old ones probably specialty tools. I tried finding them online and couldn't find what I remember(looked just like regular tin snips, just bent handles), but maybe this will help. Made by Bessey which makes good clamps, hopefully good other stuff
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002H49WG/ref=sr_11_1/103-9240295-6578211?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013
Hope this helps. Rich.
Edited 12/29/2005 10:54 pm ET by RichMast
Sounds like they need adjusting, truing and/or sharpening.
Usually just tightening snips will improve cutting performance. Depends on how they are constructed as to how you tighten the joint. The easy ones have a nut/s and bolt affair that is obvious with the only trick being figuring out how tight they have to be. Riveted joints can be tightened with judicious but firm use of a punch to spread the metal and tighten the grip of the rivet.
You can also look at the blades held up to the light so that you can sight down between the two blades. The blades, at least on most models, should cross slightly. Sometimes just a few hundredths of an inch. The blades have to be kept tight against each other as the cut is made but he length of the edges and forces involved tends to allow the blades to flex away from each other. This effect gets worse as the blades dull and the joint wears. Having the blades cross each other slightly counters these forces.
As the blades wear they loses tension so the blades may need to be bent slightly into each other. A delicate operation to get right. Check a similar model when new to note how much the blades cross.
None of this matters much if the edges are dull as the rounded edges will wedge the blades apart by flexing the blades and straining the bolt or rivet at the joint. Sometimes you can use a stone on the edges. Use a new version of the snips to guide you as to the angle to recreate. Keep the ground surface dead flat with no rounding over. Wiss makes a lot of snips which are case and/or induction hardened and removing too much metal will give you a pretty but useless edge. Hard to say how deep the hardening goes so don't remove more than you need to.
Hard to say which method or combination of methods will tune up your snips. On some higher end units a tune up is as simple as replacing or regrinding the removable knives. On the up side if they don't cut now and you don't succeed your out nothing but time.
I had luck making a pair cut better, after I noted the blades had spread away from each other a bit, by gripping each blade in a vice, protected by pieces of wood, and gently but firmly bending the blade near the joint to recreate the crossing seen when new. This I combined with tightening the joint, easy as it was a nut-bolt set and touching up the edge with a stone. I couldn't recreate the striations but they were sharp and flat when I was done. They cut almost as well as when they were new. I still use them occasionally.
Which brings up the other dynamic. This tuning process takes time. If you do it as a home project primarily for personal satisfaction, good feeling to know you have mastered a tool to the point you can make a worn out pair cut nearly like a new set, it is great. If you were on the clock it would likely be more cost effective to just buy a new pair and put the old ones into the recycling bin.
4Lorn,Thanks for your reply. I have played around with the joint tightness (it is a bolt/jamnut affair) with no improvement. I am going to sharpen some more and look at the crossing issue. The forgings that comprise the blades are not likely to bend, but the pressed steel frames will. Maybe that is the cause of the problem...wimpy handles?The problem with the Wiss snips is that they ARE new versions of their type, and they suck! The blade crossing is the critical issue here, methinks.This weekend I am off the clock, and want to solve this since it has bugged me for some years. Thanks for taking the time to offer such a detailed reply to my query. I will post my results when they are in.Bill
I've got some Malcos (maybe that's the name) , they have replaceable cutters and sorta look like great big scissors, well at least the handles do. They cut straight, and I mean really straight. I figure they do that, I'm responsible for not getting cut<G> "what's in a name?" d'oh!
Hey Bucksnort,
How's North Carolina's basketball team shaping up? The holes get filled yet?Birth, school, work, death.....................
Oh man, Grant's gone down now, even bigger hole. Seems like the stat guys are just ignoring it<G>http://tarheelblue.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/unc-m-baskbl-mtt.htmlJust hope they make a game out of the first tilt in December. You got a ticket for me?, ha, ha, ha, ooohhh<G>
"what's in a name?" d'oh!
I am flummoxed...I live in Ky and love NC...50 bucks says we whoop NC in march? Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Hey, you know I'm nuts, but I'm not that stupid<G> besides, all I gotta do is bet on anyone, and they loose...hmmmm, shoulda tried that on the shrub LOL "what's in a name?" d'oh!
watch it now, you'll get it moved to the abyss... Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
My older set of offsets have been used for 15 years,
If I get 4 months out of a pair of snips cutting copper, I'm happy. Cutting lathe would be even harder on the blades. A pair of snips costs $15. Raise your prices by $.01/hr and you can afford new snips every 4 months.
Birth, school, work, death.....................
seeyou,You are right, the money is not the issue. It is the principle of the matter, especially with the dang Wiss's that have never worked. I have a moral beef with defective tools, and also with throwaways that are not fir to service.Bill
and also with throwaways that are not fir to service.
If you're cutting metal lathe, you're making something (tile, stucco, plaster) that's gonna last a long time. If you gotta throw away or wear out a tool to make that happen, so be it.Birth, school, work, death.....................
Cu,The e-mail notification says, "Greencu posted a message to you...." But the message header has "seeyou" ( I get it, nyuk, nyuk). Whassup wit dat? Prospero suffering from indigestion?Bill
I started setting up a web site around the time we had to re-register. I used "cu" which I had recently changed from "greencu" to register with my new email address. When I realized I'd lost all my old posts/profile, etc. I reregistered with my old email address and I had to have a new screen name, ie "seeyou".Birth, school, work, death.....................
I work w/ for Cu daily..my red Wiss last a week or two max, Malco a month..but the reds take the brunt force of cutting bends.
Offsets are good in idea, short in performance.
wanna really waste some $ buy the yellow curlers that wiss just made available..twice the effort and half the speed..all yors for 30 bucks.
I am cutting miles a month..of Copper...reds take a beating, by the time I'd take em apart and sharpen them, I could have bought 2 pair, and at 40' off the ground, it don't happen that way.
Lose the off sets, they can't get into a tight snip....trust us.
I agree a duck bill for lathe, but yer gonna be better, with a MALCO. Scissors type. 30 at HD.
In addition, if the lathe has a fold or a hem on the waste, relive it with cross cuts so it will curl to the waste side , other wise yer gonna get stitches and bandaids for Xmas. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Hello Again,Thanks to all wh posted with good information. I will be getting a pair of the Malco snips with the replaceable blades. Here ore the results of my rehab efforts tonight.Remember, the two Wiss's are almost unused. The green handled Wiss responded well to sharpening and minor tweaking of the pivot tension. They cut paper, and do quite well in the lath, too. The blades can still get wedged apart in lath, but not like before.The red handled Wiss is another story. The blades start out together, go apart, then come closer at the end of the cut. All this action is in the pivot. It seems Wiss finagled the pivot so that the blades would try to cross as they are closed. Cool concept, poor execution. I tried bending the blades so that they would cross, but no way. They are massive forgings, and are not moving. Something was going to break and hurt me if I pushed any harder, so I chickened out.I sharpened the red pair just like the green pair, but they only cut paper when used with two hands in a way that forces the blades into contact. They are sharper than when new, but a terrific disappointment. I need to give 'em away to preserve my sanity.The left and right cutting Leversnips are the story of the evening. After years of hard use, I was able to clean and sharpen both of them so they cut the paper and the lath perfectly. When I got the Wiss duo, I remember noticing that they didn't cut nearly as well as the Leversnips, which is why they are still virginal. Leversnips was the company founded by the patent-holder of the offset design in the 70's or 80's. I read the review in the Whole Earth Catalog. They were not cheap, but have proven worth it. I will look on the web and see if perchance they are still in business. I sort of doubt it.Bill
Great report!
Thanks. The Wiss are disposable cutters, and I have been too lazy to find new edges for the Malcos..
Glad ya found a solution. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks