Replies

1. 
   goldhiller | Sep 29, 2002 07:29am | #1

   I've been using Valspar ext. oil primer for about 14 years now and am completely satisfied. I guess that goes without saying or I wouldn't continue to use it. We get it here at Farm & Fleet sold under their house brand name, but it's the same product. I also use it for the very purposes that you're describing.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
2. 
   Piffin | Sep 30, 2002 01:01am | #2

   I'm using the BenMor too and think it's fine.

   I'm curious what you are meaning by more durable tho'. Most primers are intended as bonding agents and sealers. Oil is good for this because of slow curing and the penetration that brings. But the durability comes from the top finish coats.

   Is it because these sashes will be subject to handling before installation? Maybe two coats of the same product?

   .

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   skip13326 | Sep 30, 2002 04:31am | #3

   Thanks for your valuable input.  I am happy to satisfy your curiosity.  Four years ago we built a house duplicating a 1850-1860 Greek revival farmhouse and used Brosco (Brockway-Smith) windows 6 over 6 true divided lights.  We have recently experienced water leaking through the muntins and at the bottom rails of the sashes in rain storms (even through screens).  Brockway-Smith's rep at first promised to replace the sashes and then the day before scheduled delivery determined that they would not replace the sashes.  Their first excuse, provided by Mathew Brothers, the manufacturer of the sashes, was that they had not been painted properly(1/16"onto the glass), but Mathew Brothers had not viewed the windows which, in fact, were properly painted.  Brockway-Smith then took the position that the windows had been painted a dark color and that this was the problem. 

   In any event we have purchased new sashes which will come from Mathew Brothers by way of Brockway-Smith.  Our investigation has turned up the following:  We were advised by persons at Mathew Brothers that they do not prime the rabbit where the window pane sits.  We were further advised by Mathew Brothers that it uses a glazing putty manufactured by Sterling Clark Lurton Corp which advises in its data sheet that bare wood be primed.  Sterling Clark also recommends that the putty  be allowed to form a skin before paintiing either oil, latex or acrylic paints.  Our understanding, again from Mathew Brothers is that once the glass is put in place  the glazing putty is applied around the edge of the glass and the window is sent down the line where a latex primer is applied immediately to the exterior face of the sash.

   It is our intent to sand the exterior latex primer on the sash and apply one or two coats of oil primer and then two coats of an oil based paint.  Do I understand your message that two coats of the oil primer would be helpfu?

   Skip

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 30, 2002 04:58am | #5

   Flash from the past! Did you post about this maybe six weeks ago? I remember posting in that thread that the Brosco window is well known for being the bottom of the barrel for quality and how happy we all were that Brockway - Smith was going to make good on them.

   Now we find that they are making you pay for the replacements which are equally improperly put together by ignoring all the recomendations of the individual component product manufacturers.

   A double coat would probably nbot help you for this application. I had the impression that you were making window sashes for others and that, in the course of delivering and storage, the paint might be rubbing off - precipitating a need for "durability". Primers generally recomend being finished over before thirty days, especially when exposed to UV rays on exterior work.

   Do as mentioned above and be sure the putty glazing is skimmed over, paint with the primer, and then with two coats of finish, oil or latex after the primer has cured. I prefer the oil. Adding penetrol may help with all coats.

   The only reason for choosing Brosco is that they emulate the old patterns cheaply..

   Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   Qtrmeg | Sep 30, 2002 05:05am | #7

   I'm up to speed on how the windows come from the supplier, but could you describe, in detail, how you properly painted the previous windows, and what products you used?

   Could you also detail how the previous windows failed? What is the nature of the failure, what are the obvious signs of failure, have all the windows failed?

3. 
   MarkH128 | Sep 30, 2002 04:41am | #4

   I will offer a small tip. Allow the glazing to thoroughly cure before priming or painting. Glazing that has been painted before it is cured WILL FAIL. It usually takes at least a month to fully cure in hot weather. The failure is glazing cracking and pulling loose from the glass and sash as the paint film shrinks, which allows water to penetrate and further the process as well as causing rot in the sash.

1. 
   RW | Sep 30, 2002 05:03am | #6

   Have to agree. I've painted glazing a month after and it still hadn't cured enough. You're right that oil is a better choice for what you're doing than latex. I'm a dyed in the wool Sherwin Williams guy myself, so would recommend their A-100 oil primer, but can't substantiate whether or not its any better than BM. I do, however, like their Industrial Oil Enamel they sell in a silver label for oil top coats outdoors. It benefits from a little thinning, dries very slowly, but when it is dry is extremely durable. I've used it on windows, casing, and muntins. Also used it on a railing around our porch a couple of years ago and (since I get to see this daily) think it is holding up great. If you don't already know, don't worry about masking the glass on a new wood sash. Try to get paint on that edge and if it wants to go in any little voids, that's even better. You can lightly score the edge with a razor (for a clean line - just a hair away from the glazing) when it's cured and oil comes scrapes off glass just fine

1. 
   Piffin | Sep 30, 2002 05:17am | #8

   That SW is tough - if you can get past the smell that is!

   ;-).

   Excellence is its own reward!