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Discussion Forum

operable Wood shutters

andybuildz | Posted in Construction Techniques on August 9, 2004 01:48am

Anyone know where I might get a set of plans along with all the hardware to build operable wood shutters.

I need ALOT of em’ and the prices I see on line are what I thought….ALOT!!

Like $200 a shutter.whewwwwww…I think I could almost build a small house for the cost of what all the shutters I need would be.

I’ll build my own so……..if anyone has a source for all the stuff that goes into building historic operable wooden louver shutters I’d appreciate a shout here.

thanks gang

Be shuttering at the price of shutters,

andy

The secret of Zen in two words is, “Not always so”!


http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

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Replies

  1. User avater
    Lenny | Aug 09, 2004 03:49am | #1

    I need six 16x80 fixed louver shutters for my traditional home. Saw the same thing on the net...they run about $400 a pair.  I've rebuilt about 10 of them but six are gone.  Went to a mill shop to see if they would make the sides (part with routing to accommodate the vane...and I would make the rest myself. They wouldn't touch it.

    Only market seems to be restoration of historic buildings and the like...some places that will spend the bucks for authenticity.

    Plastic ones are cheap....and look cheap.

    I'm going to try a couple of other mill work shops...

  2. User avater
    goldhiller | Aug 09, 2004 03:50am | #2

    FHB....Oct/Nov 1983

    Building Louvered Shutters by Rob Hunt

    It's on the disc set,too.

    Edit: These are shutters with movable louvers, not fixed.

    Try VanDyke's for hardware cause I think they've got it. Other sources out there, too.

    Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.



    Edited 8/8/2004 9:01 pm ET by GOLDHILLER

  3. User avater
    Sphere | Aug 09, 2004 05:05pm | #3

    for your place, I would think the shutters would have been raised panels.

    If they are acceptable to your powers that be...they would be sooooo much easier to make.

    I have made louverd doors and shutters, it's something I prefer to avoid...really. They are a real pain to asssemble, ALOT of sanding (slats) and router till yer arms fall off..believe me.

    If ya have to...just buy ONE..take it apart..now ya have a pattern that you know works..having a 3d pc. is ton mo betta than having a drawing..you can set up the tooling direcrtly from the sample.

     

    Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

    Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

    1. andybuildz | Aug 09, 2004 06:31pm | #5

      SPHERE

      Exactly my sentiments.....I'm seriously considering building raised panel shutters on my williams and Hussey molder.

      I like how the louver looks a whole lot better but I aint spending dem kinda bucks, and at this point I just may have learned how much time is left in my lifetime.

      Be realistic

      andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

      http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

  4. User avater
    BossHog | Aug 09, 2004 05:11pm | #4

    You might try asking over at Knots.

    I remember seeing some jigs for louvers in a woodworking catalog once, but I don't remember which one it was. Someone over there might know.

    Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. [Horace Mann]

  5. jpainter | Aug 09, 2004 06:32pm | #6

    Andy:

    I built my own fixed-louver shutters for my house a few years back (42 shutters, if I recall).  See:

    http://home4.netcarrier.com/~painter/images/shutter.jpg

    I used pine for the rails and stiles and resawn fir for the louvers.  I selected tight grained 2x fir and resawed it to create a vertical grain material.  I glued the mortise and tenons with polyurethane glue.  The dimensions were taken right from the windows themselves.  I painted with an oil based ben moore primer and two coats of latex. 

    The trick on the louvers is a plywood router jig that helps cut the slots into the stiles.  Of course, the hardware to hang the shutters will kill you on price, even though you saved by making your own shutters.  I was going to build my own forge, but my wife threatened divorce. ;-)

    J Painter

    1. andybuildz | Aug 09, 2004 07:23pm | #7

      thanks....when I deceide if I'm doing raised panel or louver I'll delve intot he links.

      Its sorta still up in the air.

      Thanks so much and be well

      andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

      http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

      1. stonefever | Aug 10, 2004 01:47am | #8

        Gee, I've got some extra moveable slat shutters.  They have the 3 1/2" slats and appear to be made out of pine, clear lacquered, light stained.  3 are 29.375" x 69.375" hi.  2 are the same width and 77.375" hi.  Great shape.

        I hate to throw them away...

  6. ClevelandEd | Aug 10, 2004 04:56am | #9

    Others as skilled as you have given up.  A few years ago this guy bought a c 1830 house down the road from me with maybe half as many windows as your place.  His father had recently retired as a shop teacher and was going to make the son shutters for every window.  First though, the dad was working on devising some uniform approach to expedite cutting and assembling of each unit.   He never produced one.   

    1. GreekRevivalGuy | Aug 10, 2004 08:38am | #11

      Ed,

      You're scarin' me!  I know this is going to be a complicated project, but I'm determined to go where the retired shop teacher only dreamed of!

      Allen

      1. OneofmanyBobs | Aug 10, 2004 01:02pm | #12

        If you don't want to spend your entire life doing this, you need an overarm pin router.  One template does the whole batch.  Flip it over for the opposite side stile.  Or, you can build a simple jig.  An angle slider with router and long rail with pin index.  Have a millwork shop run you a mile of the slat stock on a 4-sided molder.  Another jig to dowel the top & bottom rails.  2 hours labor per shutter plus $50 for stock plus setup.  That's why custom shutters cost $200 to $400.  I saw a shutter mill in Vermont once.  Ran off a water wheel.  Like a swiss watch inside.  Ratchets, gears, cutters.  Beautiful.  Feed stock in one end and slats and stiles drop out the other end.

        1. User avater
          Sphere | Aug 10, 2004 03:03pm | #13

          good advice on the pin router. Also keep in mind that OPERABLE shutters  may be easier. A line of holes, like an adjustable shelf jig makes can accept the small tennons that you mill on the end of the slats. An actuater bar is then stapled, (yes stapled,even back then they would use a wire type nail bent into a hook an eye arragement) to the slats

          The fixed louvers are also easier to insert if the mortice is not the full width of the louver, and the louver also has a stub tenon.

          A carriage can be made for the table saw where the louver can rotate, this will create a stub tenon, or a dowel depending on the blade height. 

          Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

          Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

          1. OneofmanyBobs | Aug 10, 2004 05:15pm | #14

            A plug cutter works fine for stub tenons.  Use it in a horizontal boring machine or Shopsmith if you got one.  Otherwise, clamp a router (set the speed way low - plug cutters go at 3000 RPM)  at a right angle to a little table.  Screw on some guide strips to make a slot.  Push the end of the slat into the cutter.  Zip, zip, zip.   Works fast as you can shove them in.  If you can find a genuine tenon cutter, you don't have to cut away the waste with a bandsaw or table saw jig.  If the slats are thick enough, can also just bore a hole and glue a dowel in it.  The problem with operable slats is that they only operate once.  Before you paint them.  Also lots of little holes to collect water so they rot away much faster.  Stick with fixed slats for exterior.

            Making shutters isn't that hard.  Lots of little pieces.  A couple of jigs.  Set up a little production line.   4 or 5 pairs a day easy.  With the money you save you can afford all the tools you need.

        2. DanH | Aug 10, 2004 07:14pm | #16

          Yeah, I'd agree with getting a millwork shop to run the slats. If you don't mind a $500 or so setup charge they can run any profile you want on their profile planers.

          Have them run at least half again as much stock as you need, so you have some for replacements down the road.

          1. GreekRevivalGuy | Aug 11, 2004 02:33am | #18

            Good thoughts, all.  I saw that TOH episode ... maybe 10 years ago?!  I wonder if that was the same mill that Bob visited in Vermont?

            My original shutters had metal pins that connected the slats to the stiles ... I'm thinking that might be simpler than the wood-tenon types.  Or maybe not?  Also, the vertical "control rod" thingie was a metal wire that looped once around each staple on the slats.  This was fairly common (rather than a wood rod).

            What I don't like about fixed-slat shutters (besides not being the original style on my house, and besides not being adjustable when closed), is that when the shutters are open, the slats shed water TOWARD the house.  Also, my personal preference is for the slats to be highlighted, rather than in shadow.

            Allen

    2. DanH | Aug 10, 2004 07:09pm | #15

      6-8 years ago TOH carried a segment that went inside a shop in New England somewhere where they built wood shutters, using 100-year-old equipment. They has a special planer for the slats, and tools for cutting the ends of operable slats, stapling the operating bar, etc. Jigs for notching for fixed slats, or a machine that did it (don't recall which). You might be able to get the tape if you dig around.

      1. DougU | Aug 11, 2004 02:09am | #17

        I seen that show, that machinery was cool, old as dirt and still running like a champ. And that lady could assemble those shutters faster than I could!

        Doug

  7. GreekRevivalGuy | Aug 10, 2004 08:35am | #10

    Andy,

    Your question is well-timed for me, also, as I'm about to embark on a similar project, and am very interested in people's responses.

    I will be constructing shutters for 23 windows for my 1830 house.  I have sketched some basic plans, based on the following:

    --Two sets of existing intact shutters (these are fixed-slat, permanently closed, non-operable shutters in original "fake" window openings ... designed for exterior facade symmetry)

    --A small portion of an original, operable, rolling-slat shutter

    --A c1912 photo showing the original shutters (all rolling-slat except for the "fake" windows)

    --Two "generations" of hinges (or portions of hinges): The original mortised hinges (none complete), and the later face-mounted hinges (only the "window frame" portions)

    The construction seems quite straightforward, though time-consuming. The only moulding is an applied quarter-inch bead. Several years ago, I started work on a prototype, and found that shaping the slats was challenging on my tablesaw (each slat is a very shallow parallelogram in profile).  A friend has suggested that a draw knife might be simple and quick ... just cut square stock, then use the draw knife to taper it ... or maybe a hand plane???  I'm open to suggestions!

    To date, I have made reproduction windows, milled out of hand-picked dense- and straight-grain 2 x 4s from the local lumber yard!  I ground my own moulding-head knives to match the original muntin profiles.  And used 100 percent early 19th-century antique glass.  Luckily, the previous owners only got around to ripping out HALF of the original windows.

    Now the house is screaming for shutters ... and that's (almost) my next project.  I'm very interested in any tips or production ideas for making them.

    Allen

  8. User avater
    goldhiller | Aug 11, 2004 05:30am | #19

    Hey Andy,

    Been chewin' on your shutter project today while I was parging some stone walls.

    Years ago we built a bunch of fixed louver shutters with a plywood jig and a single router. As you can imagine, time consuming and a PITA.

    Today it occurs to me........line boring machine. Good investment if you only ever use it to do shelving, but.......if you were to replace the drill bits with end-mill cutters, you could hypothetically do 13 angled slots at a crack. (Hypothetically is definitely the word here cause the rpm is gonna be considerably slower than a router.)

    Build a vacuum clamping arrangement/jig as one would for production work on an overarm router. Handles off the top of the rig to manuver it. Guide pins outta the table to angled slots in the bottom of said combination vacuum clamp/jig. Plunge to depth and lock in. Guide stile thru the mills. Should have 13 slots. Index via another set of slots in underside of jig to next set of 13 (or more,or less) to complete length of shutter.

    If ya don't think the chucks will handle the full depth of plunge in one pass, do it in two. No big thing time-wise.

    Screw the shaped slats. Make 'em flat, and use a matching bullnose bit to half-round the edges.

    Heck, you could use the machine to just bore the holes for operable shutters, as well. This is *the* way to go if you take on a large shelving or cabinet job anyway. It'll pay for itself in short order.

    http://www.toolking.com/shop/oos.asp?id=6054

    Another edit: Know anybody with a CNC router/Shopbot? Program it, slide in a piece of 12" wide (or more)stile stock and let it cut the slots or bore the holes while you drink coffee. Take it out and cut your stiles to width.

    Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

    Edited 8/10/2004 10:34 pm ET by GOLDHILLER

    Edited 8/10/2004 11:27 pm ET by GOLDHILLER



    Edited 8/11/2004 12:07 am ET by GOLDHILLER

    1. andybuildz | Aug 11, 2004 02:39pm | #20

      Gold

      Holy shid.this is going to take me some time to digest but I certainly will study what you have to say.....Looks like I will be doing operables.ughThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

      http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

      1. plantlust | Aug 13, 2004 04:35am | #34

        Um, wouldn't it just be easier to find used shutters on Ebay or someplace like Salvage One?

        But if you DO figure it out, I will need you to come up w/a couple of interior solid shutters for my Moroccan room...in moucharabieh style, please.Priorities change.  FIRST is a Hyster manlift and now tied at second is money and acreage.

    2. User avater
      Sphere | Aug 11, 2004 03:14pm | #21

      I once ran a line borer...seem to remember the closest together the holes could be was about an inch...not sure anymore it was WAY long ago..makeing shelving sides.

      The cnc is THE best way to go..fershure. 

      Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

      Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

      1. andybuildz | Aug 11, 2004 03:44pm | #22

        Oh right I'm gonna spend 5 trillon dollars on a CNC...lolThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

        http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

        1. User avater
          Sphere | Aug 11, 2004 04:37pm | #23

          nah, we had one in a guitar shop..from Pitts.Pa.  ferget the name now..but it was only 17,ooo or so.

          You gotta look in FWW fer an ad from a "jobber''  they'll do small runs fairly cheap.

          I'll see what I can find...see ya FRI...packin today. 

          Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

          Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

        2. User avater
          goldhiller | Aug 11, 2004 06:33pm | #24

          Naw.

          I know where there's a virtually new Shopbot with 48"x96" table for

          $8,000. That includes the router, Z Zero plate, probe, software and all that stuff. The fella bought the thing and unfortunately passed away about three weeks later. You have to supply the puter to run the thing, but that can be a simple laptop or a very basic PC.

          The biggest problem with buying one this size that's already set up is that you'll almost certainly have to provide the transportation. No small problem.

          You might find such a thing on Ebay also. Wouldn't be surprised.

          But if you have no intention of using the thing except to produce your shutters.....and no visions of need for it in the future, you'd be ahead of the game to find somebody that has one in your area. Writing the program for shutter stile production shouldn't take much time at all really. Maybe 1/2 an hour for each different sized stile, tops. Pretty basic stuff for anyone familiar with programming the thing. The Shopbot Part Wizard makes short work of this.

          What you'd need to provide to save time and therefore money is all the measurements/layouts for the various size shutters you need. Length and width of stile, number of slots, size of slots, spacing of slots on stiles, depth of slots, angle of slots. In other words, lay 'em all out full scale on paper and pull your measurements from that. Be accurate. Then take the drawings and your acquired figures along to the shop with the CNC. They can slot those stiles and that's the most time consuming part of the whole project. That's what I'd do anyway for fixed louver shutters.

          If it's the operable shutters you've decided on, I'd buy that line boring machine. If you come to a point where you don't think you want it anymore, sell it. I doubt that's gonna happen though. One plunge to bore for shelf pins and you're a believer.

          Maybe you could talk some of these guys into bringing their routers along to Rhodefest and everybody could slot a few for ya. (You supply the jigs, of course) You could make a contest of it. Most slots in X amount of time, wins. Nothing like a little competition to get these guys reved up. LOL

          Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

          1. Adrian | Aug 11, 2004 07:10pm | #25

            Skimmed this thread, but FWIW I used to run a shutter shop.....mostly interior operating ones, but have done fixed louver, and raised panel ones (agree with whoever said they may be most 'correct' for your old house0.....if you are ever thinking of doing operating interior, or fixed louver shutters, they're a lot of work.....can't make money on them without dedicated gear and/or deicated setups. An ex-student just borrowed my shop to make a bunch of fixed louvers for a boat, using the router/jig......took him a LONG time.

            I see CNC being mentioned....before I went to CNC (and I have a CNC machine here at the school), I would look into a louver groover....yes, that's what it's called, and some of them are quite small and affordable (some are also huge and very $). Saw one a while ago at exfactory.com or m-mls.com (used equipment brokers) at around $1500, needing some work.....maybe a small investment gives you a niche as 'that shutter guy'. Neat machines, take all the head scratching and drudgery out of the work.

            exfactory has a louver and shutter equipment section; this one is going for $3900....replacement over 30K (wouldn't let me past an image, but they're there.)

             cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S

          2. Adrian | Aug 11, 2004 07:37pm | #26

            A line boring machine for operable shutters (the interior kind anyway, that are often called California (2 1/2" louvers) or Plantation (3 1/2" louvers) would have to be custom made (not a huge deal)....off the shelf ones are usually on 32mm centres, or occasionally 1 1/4".....thinking back a long time now to my shutter days, and pretty sure we used 2" and 3" centres on the stiles, as they have to overlap a certain amount. Even removing every second drill doesn't add up. If you can find a supplier (a mill), it makes sense to use the industry sizes, because you can buy louver stock for way less than it costs to make it....you can buy the stock ofr the wider interior operable ones, or for fixed louvers.

            For fixed louvers, one idea I played with but never tried was a mortising machine.....angle the hollow chisel to whatever angle you want, then form a 'tenon' on the end of the louvers.....just leave a square section/dowel/tenon  in the middle of the louvers. Just a matter of drilling square holes then. Sorry if that's already been suggested; just sitting here waiting for a new panel saw to be delivered.

            edit to add: checked exfactory, and they do have purpose built line boring machines for shutters......1,2,3 and 4" centres available, but they're all over 14K new.

            cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S

            Edited 8/11/2004 12:40 pm ET by Adrian

          3. johnharkins | Aug 11, 2004 08:03pm | #27

            enjoying this thread ... and it just might drive someone to drinking

            try this outfit in Tacoma, Washington Custom Bi folds 866 558 5282

            be patient w/ them they're not going to arrive at the details in a New York minute but when they do and give you a date - it will happen

            haven't noticed discussion of material but highly recommend cedar or like / did some exterior in hemlock and would pursue alternatives

          4. DanH | Aug 11, 2004 08:18pm | #28

            With regard to simple boring for moving slats, I would think that one could set up a simple step-and-repeat template for a drill press that would make it go reasonably fast -- 3 seconds or so per hole. I'd probably use a piece of Masonite or acrylic, clamped to the bottom of the stile, with holes drilled in the template that locked onto a peg on the drill press table.

            Certainly wouldn't be as fast as a line boring machine, but it would make the drilling a reasonably small part of the overall effort.

            Replace the drill press with a router mounted on a hinge base with a spring holding it up. Fix it so the router can slide back and forth the appropriate amount for the slot width, angled appropriately. You could probably do slots in 5-8 seconds.

          5. AdamB | Aug 11, 2004 09:19pm | #29

            Fixed louvers,

            I helped a friend of mine do this:

            we constructed a template by double sticktaping two pieces of plywood together ripped one side straight / jointed it to make sure that one edge was straight.

            then we set the table saw up at the correct angle (20 deg ? I don't remmember) cut the angles out, such that when you open the two pieces they form a handfull of V's like this. (it is formed from the two pieces stuck together.)

            VVVVV

            now just run a parting bead down the middle of the V's so they look like this.

            / / / /

            take your two stiles and clamp them together, possably with a  spacer in the middle. and route the slots out.

            if you keep the stile pairs together, it should all line up great. and go pretty fast

            Adam

          6. stonefever | Aug 12, 2004 06:25am | #30

            A bit of divergence...

            Is it possible to make a functional slatted interior shutter to fit in a half circle window?

          7. User avater
            CapnMac | Aug 12, 2004 09:30pm | #31

            a functional slatted interior shutter to fit in a half circle window

            Ought to, the slats will be narrower than the frame.  The top of the slat is narrower than the bottom to follow the curve.  The slat might not "flip" all the way over as a result.  Better than no swiveling at all, though.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

          8. stonefever | Aug 13, 2004 02:59am | #33

            I meant in a sunburst pattern.  Sorry, I should have been clearer.

            Thanks for your thoughts.

          9. Adrian | Aug 13, 2004 05:11am | #35

            Yeah, they can be done, I've done a bunch......we called them circle-heads, and each one ran a grand or so, several years ago. Ours were operable in that each louver could be pivoted individually....if anyone had a system where you could pull a chain or something, and they would all move together, I don't think I ever saw one.

            Lots of geometry involved, and each louver had to be basically hand carved; one of the challenges was that at the narrow point of the triangular louver, the point really wants to be needle sharp.....but it has to be wide enough to accomdate a pin, and there had to be enough meat there to hold the pin, and the louvers have to be relieved on the edges pretty radically.....and everything changes completely from the louvers at the outside , up through the ones in the centre....is this making any sense? Making the frame is easy; all the work is in getting the louvers to work, and any discrepancy shows up like crazy.....that applies to any shutter, they have to be pretty bang on.

            They look great when they are done, but there is a ton of work in them, at least fro a relatively small shop like ours was....had to be handcrafted. There are some very high tech shops now, and they may have it down to a science; I've been away from that area for a while now.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S

          10. DanH | Aug 13, 2004 05:34am | #36

            Ah, that would be more of a challenge, but doable. The slats would have to be tapered, and the operating "bar" would have to be a semi-circle. Major part of your life, or your kids' inheritance.

          11. stonefever | Aug 13, 2004 08:10am | #37

            That's a good idea.  I'll have the kid pay for it!

            Now, what's the next step?  Whom actually does this?

          12. Adrian | Aug 13, 2004 03:49pm | #38

            The louvers not only have to be tapered, they have to relieved on opposite sides to enable them to lie as flat as possible, and block the light.....the section of a louver would look similar to this sketch....but remember the louvers are tapered, and the amount of relief changes not only along the length of each louver, but also from louver to louver. See the attached file (I thought we could paste in pictures here, but I'm not having any luck?). I don't think there is any way to make a bar work....I never tried, because of the cost. The vinyl guys I think had a mechanism, with a string or chain through the bottoms of the louvers, but like i said, Ive never seen a working, 'automatic' one in wood.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S

          13. DanH | Aug 12, 2004 10:02pm | #32

            It only depends on how much of you're life you're willing to spend to do it, or how much of your fortune you're willing to pay. Figuring out the drilling pattern for the "stiles" would be the trickiest part.

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