Does anyone have experience with one of these pay-to-play reference sites? The look good until you read the terms and conditions. Should I be expected to pay $300 a year to have my company listed on a website along with dozens of other companies, or pay $1300 to get real leads on jobs? Does this seem reasonable?
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It depends on the scale of the jobs you would be doing, and if the leads actually pan out. For me, it would be a waste of money. I'm plenty busy with my existing customers and most of my work is small in scale. If you build new homes or additions and large scale remodeling, AND the leads are the kind you want, then maybe it's worth it.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.net
See my work at TedsCarpentry.com
I don't think it's reasonable. These people don't seem to realize that only a small percentage of leads turn into actual work, and of those, only a small percentage actually turn into actual money-makers. They act like one lead pays for the service. Which is bs.
"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Something smells bad when companies sell a bunch of leads to up to 20 different companies... and the jobs get bid down to the point that even the winner loses.
I registered with Handycanadian.com which is the same scam... with a different name. I wanted to see how many and what quality of leads there was. Just the overflow on our site (when guys don't answer and they dial head office with the 888 number) is likely triple what they get and likely way higher quality.
I guess I am the bonehead... I could sell all those leads to 10 different people and be retired next month...
Or maybe in time those guys will all be gone and we will be helping thousands of companies prosper.
I enjoy playing with ServiceMagic when they call me weekly... I milk them for info.. and then try to get them to put it in writing that they only give the leads to 3 guys...strange how they won't do that.
Then I usually break it to them that we likely get more traffic than them... and that I can outrank them for any given search term...
Then they feel like the mouse that's been batted around by my cat as it was trying to find a way into my house...
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
My experience has been that ANY group that sells leads is just setup for their own benefit and not yours!
Just go to your local archy, engineer or lumberyard and tell them you will give them $100. for each job and I bet you will be better off.
I got some good leads from ths site. $50.00 per month--long or as little as you like.
http://www.bidclerk.com
The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
Are the users of that site tire kickers, or do you get decent work out of it?http://www.moritzcarpentry.com
A little of both. Geographically, I'm at a disadvantage. If I were interested in working in Charlotte I could be covered up with work.
Where I am, an hour north, that type of networking site is much less popular. The best reward for a job well done is the opportunity to do another.
Yes, if it fits your business model, market, advertising style, and budget.
No if not
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I think they're all mostly a waste of money.
Or maybe better said, your marketing dollars can be spent better elsewhere.
My favorite site is "Everycontractor.com" they jack asses call at least once or twice a week and ask "if we can handle more work" They have not respected my initial polite request to be removed from their list... One guy even told me to "remove myself from google and called me an ####-hole...
I probably had that coming by time we hung up.
You probably are and will continue to get leads by doing good work for a fair price. No webb site can offer you that.
Have a good day
Cliffy
I appreciate the encouragement. This year was going very well, then the work suddenly disappeared.http://www.moritzcarpentry.com
Hey I remember your big drawer and Hucks over at JLC and a firefighter sent one in too. I took pictures of mine and sent it to Justin Fink a few months back. I built a shelf an the top of the cap base that is removable in two pieces. I did the pullout with two layers of 5/8 ply glued and screwed. It slides out on transfer balls (bigger versions of the balls on table saw rollers) and when it is at full extention is held in by a runner on the vertical rail.
I have a commercially manufactured drawer out under a spare truck cap. It wastes about 5 inches of vertical space and must be bolted to the truck. So it sits .
Have a good day
Cliffy
Your workshop looks great!
Edited 5/29/2009 9:45 pm ET by cliffy
Thats all well and good if you've been in business for 20 years and have a list of 500 satisfied clients. Getting to that point is the hard part. IMO there is no better way to get in front of a potential client than with an online lead generator. They do the hard part and I get a potential lifelong client. Granted there are alot of negatives, fake leads, tire kickers, leads given to too many contractors, people who are just wondering how much things cost, mislabeled leads etc. but all the #### is worth that 1 job I get each month.
Which site do you use? What does it cost?Thankshttp://www.moritzcarpentry.com
Service Magic
Budget what you want per month, I chose $500 at approx $50 per lead.
Out of those 10 leads I might get 4 face to face meetings I gotta close one of those. Last year I got 2 jobs from it and spent $3200. My sales skills were lacking. Dedicated myself to becoming a better salesman. Closed 4 jobs this year. Average price 12k.I look at it as if I'm paying for the experience of becoming a better salesman. I learn something to or not to do evwrytime I go on a sales call.How else am I going to get in front of 4 customers who are looking for the service I provide every month?
I would be interested (as would many others, I'm sure) in what it is you learned in terms of salesmanship. I find that I tend to lose jobs when I tell them about how much it would cost to do the job. It isn't that someone else gets the job; usually the homeowner decides to not do the project or postpones it. Especially since you have put out a lot of money to get some of these projects, I wonder what it is you have discovered that works. Thanks!http://www.moritzcarpentry.com
I find that I tend to lose jobs when I tell them about how much it would cost to do the job. It isn't that someone else gets the job; usually the homeowner decides to not do the project or postpones it.
Same here."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
If they don't have the money, then they just can't do the project. No fault of yours.
What Ive learned:
Take control of the meeting. I used to go into a house and would immediately be ushered to the area in need of work, bombarded by the HO's with information, questions and concerns, then hurried out the door twice as confused as before i went in.
Now I walk in and ask if they have had any remodeling done before. From there I sit them down and tell them about what/how my company does/works. Calm the whole situation down.
Confidence.
Confidence in my knowledge, work skills and pricing.
Being able to answer all the questions that HO's have is important to me and I think it shows them that I know what I'm doing(even if I dont) so I do alot of reading (and talking)about products, prices and installation techniques.
Understanding pricing and having the confidence to ask for that price is the key for me. I thank Jerrald Hayes and his spreadsheet for helping me understand how much I should charge and if I dont, how the business will suffer.
Appearance. I used to think that if I went from working on one job to a first meeting for another in the same clothes that was cool. Not anymore. I make sure to dress nice(usually jeans and a button down w sleeves rolled up and nice dress shoes) hoping to make a positive first impression.
Positive attitude. Smile alot. Complete honesty.
The biggest addition to the repetoire was the "Presentation Book." I bought a book by Mike Gorman called "If I Sell You I Have A Job If I Serve You I Have A Career." This book has been an unbelievable asset on first meetings. My "Presentation Book", he tells you how to put it together, has affectionately been dubbed "Alec Baldwin" by the crew because when Alec shows up at a meeting.......jobs get closed!
Those are all great tips. Thanks for sharing them with us. I've only been at this for a few years (I used to be a white-collar worker), and I could have used some of these tips earlier. I will take a look at the book you mentioned, but I have a question about your Presentation Book. Is that a photo album or something? Almost all my jobs come from word-of-mouth, and I often send people to my website for ideas of the kinds of projects I do. Is my website a Presentation Book?Thanks again!http://www.moritzcarpentry.com
Brad--- looking through your web site----- one thing jumps out the garage door you built and installed?--- that's an opportunity for you right there. it's actually on my shortlist of things to be accomplished on the exterior of my own home-- in between projects in my roofing business.Locally--we have garage door companies that give FANTASTIC sameday service for repairs------ but the replacement doors they want to sell-----tend to generic,run of the mill stock itemsstephen
The great thing about the book is that it isn't all about the pictures. It's all about telling the customer who you are, what to expect from you and what you expect from them.
Mission statement, Insurance, BWC, various different job sheets, contracts, etc.. Everything that goes into how you run your company and how what you do benefits the customer. Separating yourself from your competition. I'd say of the first 10 times I pulled out Alec Baldwin 6 people told me before I left, unprompted, " You were by far the most complete and professional contractor we have spoken to." Closing close to 40% of my sales calls now.
Might not all be big jobs, but they are jobs nonetheless.
I really feel that the internet is a required tool for a small business. To have some sort of presence on the web is infinitely valuable.
Postive ratings of any sort are phenomenal.
I gaurantee if you talk to a homeowner that has been referred to you by someone, as soon as you leave they are Googling your company, looking for info about you. If they find nothing but positive ratings your chance of closing goes up immensely.
If a ramdom person stumbles upon your website(or sees your truck,tshirt,business card, etc..), then googles you and finds all 10's and happy customers the chance of them calling increases.
Conversely, if you are shady and do sloppy work and treat people like ####, bad ratings for you = skeptical customers= no jobs
Now if only I updated my website more than once a year.....hmmmm
"I bought a book by Mike Gorman called "If I Sell You I Have A Job If I Serve You I Have A Career."
Do you happen to have a link to this book? I cannot find it anywhere.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
http://www.hometechonline.com/pubs/salesbuy.htm
The price just went up to $99. But I'd pay $500 no problem if I had to.
Check Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/SELL-HAVE-SERVE-CREATE-CAREER/dp/B000IZLYZW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=booksqid=1244078920&sr=8-1They're $45 used.http://www.moritzcarpentry.com
I have been a member of servicemagic for three years or so and am very satisfied. Below are listed the leads I’ve received this month, the amount I paid for the lead, and the status of the lead. I’ve signed up for servicemagic’s “exact match†service which costs 1.5 times as much as “market†leads, but when a customer fills out the profile and hits the send key, my cell phone rings and the customer has called me! Remember, it’s not the big eating the small anymore; it’s the fast eating the slow.
On 5/17/09, I paid $25.50 for an exact match solid surface lead. The estimate is delivered and the material ordered. $3,200.00 job. They liked that I did it all, no middleman.
5/16/09, $25.50, exact match, This is to refabricate a solid surface store display. Approximately 1k job, no material except adhesive. The customer will call when he is able to remove display and we will visit the store together to remove and plan reinstallation in his kitchen.
5/15/09, $17.00. I repaired an improperly fabricated cracked solid surface cook top cutout, $250.00, 4 hours including driving and lunch. Done and collected.
5/12/09, $25.50, exact match. This customer wanted granite but he has no job. I applied for and received a servicemagic credit.
5/10/09, $25.50, exact match. This customer wants stainless steel tops and gives an inoperable telephone number. I have to accept and pay for stainless steel leads, as they are part of the “solid surface†category for which I subscribe. I apply for and am granted a credit because of the bad telephone number and it is approved. Amazingly enough, the customer emails me a drawing and I’m having my stainless steel fabricator working on a bid; I’ll do template and install if I get it.
5/06/09, $10.50 exact match. This customer wants a solid surface refinish and seems unable to understand why I won’t drive out to his house to bid a $250.00-$400.00 job. He agrees to my $250.00 minimum then calls and wants to reschedule. I have been unsuccessful rescheduling so far.
5/05/09, $12.00, Customer writes, “I need an estimate for having a wooden ledge replaced with marble. I am open to suggestions other than marble.†The wooden ledge is in a bathroom shower and is completely rotted and her surround is mildewed and shot. I gave her a $2,100.00 estimate to fabricate and install solid surface walls, window jambs, sill, and shower caddy and soap dish. Since the bath relining folks were at $3,600.00, I’m fairly sure I’m getting this one. She found me under the “Repair Stone Slab Countertops†category.
4/30/09, $25.50 exact match. This customer bought a used CNC machine and wants solid surface sink cutouts to (I swear I’m not making this up) make birdhouses. I referred him in the right direction and immediately applied for a credit, which was granted.
I spent $167.00 and am getting $76.50 back in credits for a total expenditure of $80.50. I’ve already performed and collected on a $250.00 repair and will be starting a $3,200.00 solid surface job next week. So even if none of the other leads pan out, which is highly unlikely, I’ve paid $80.50 for $3,450.00 worth of work, which I will gladly do anytime.
I am very sure I’m getting the refabrication job. There isn’t much competition for this type of work and I’ve done this many times. I feel pretty good about the shower wall job too. If I get these, that will be over six thousand dollars worth of work for just over eighty bucks. The stainless steel job is a possibility even though I’m going to bid very high. It’s a PIA and I can afford it since I’ve got enough other work. Who knows, maybe the reschedule will reschedule too.
Some will say to develop your website or pay for “pay for click†advertising. Developing a website is always a good idea, the “pay for click†not so much. Why? Positioning on the search engines. Servicemagic dominates the major search engines and if you don’t make the first half of the first page, you’re dead. If you’re looking for solid surface fabrication, installation, repair or stone repair in my service area, I’m at the top of ‘em all through servicemagic.
Speaking of websites, this is the one servicemagic provides me: http://joecorlett.servicemagicpro.com/. If you contact me as a customer, I will confirm that you’ve visited this site before I’ll show up for an estimate. If my 4.75 customer approval rating (out of a possible 5) has no value to you, we aren’t right for each other and we’ll both save time.
If I put on my Swami Joe turban, I will predict that sooner than most will think, this is the future of how business will be done, like it or not. In fact, it is the evolution of businesses like servicemagic that is killing the newspapers. Newspaper classifieds cannot deliver the advertising efficiency of the Internet. Businesses as small as mine cannot afford newspaper advertising; however, servicemagic is not only affordable, it is incredibly cost effective.
You may not have the same experience with a lead service as I have had. I used to subscribe to the servicemagic “Granite Fabrication and Installation†category, but the leads were about $35.00 each and the competition was insane.
Break a leg,
Kowboy
P.S.:
I just signed up with these guys because they gave me six months for free:
http://contractors.buildingpros.com/build/1002509
Kowboy,
thanks for an interesting post. i will have to think about it for a while----- but it ties in quite well with something i have been thinking about with regaurds to a thread I posted about Old businesses assesing new business opportunities thanks again
stephen
Kowboy,
Thats good to hear. Glad its working for you.
I used SM for a while and got nothing. I think it depends on your line of work as I would get folks write and say "How much to build a house?" You can imagine where the communication went from there as none of them had any land and none had any plans. They essentially just wanted an idea to dream from.
Which is totally OK to do except when I am expected to produce plans and an estimate all for free....out of the 10 or so leads I got in six months, none were willing to pay anything but wanted a full set of plans to look at and a solid number to go to the bank with.
So I think SM is bad for contractors doing large projects but great for tradesman and other subs who do specialized work that can be done quickly and efficiently.
As someone in the web industry, I can tell you most pay-to-be-listed sites are pointless.
As a homeowner, I can tell you that I rarely would trust an online referral service over word-of-mouth referrals.