Hello,
Long time reader and I would like to ask opinions on adding a propane tank to the house.
NG is not an option, boiler is oil, everything else is electric.
I am not concerned about the ROI since I think it will be alot of years to get money back. My reasons to add gas are for gas logs for the fireplace, no more getting the tank refilled on the BBQ, wife would love to have back a gas cooktop and I have been told that the clothes dryer would be half as much to operate. By the way, electric is 19.7 cents KWH and propane is $2.80 gallon.
Has anybody cooked on NG vs Propane? Will the dryer cost half to operate? Have you been happy with gas logs? Will gas have added curb appeal if we sell the house?
Thanks for everyone’s time in helping out
Kevin
Replies
We install or work with propane on a lot of jobs. Natural gas isn't very common here. Can't tell the difference cooking betw. propane and NG, gas logs can look & work great if you get a good log kit and burner. Don't know exactly how the cost works out though. I know for dryers and water heaters you can save quite a bit by using propane or NG.
We'll be installing a propane tank at a house coming up shortly. Owner's reasons are the same as yours: replace wood fireplace with freestanding gas heating stove, cook with gas. Around here the best strategy is to buy a tank and bury it. Usual size is 500 gallons and up. If you own the tank, either of the two suppliers can fill it, whereas if you rent it then only the company that owns it can fill it... and... larger tanks cost less per gallon to fill.
Take a look at this thread.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=121924.1
We use propane as a backup to a heat pump & for cooking. I put in the furnace so that I could get by with a smaller generator when we loose power in the winter. I did a comparison at the time & even without allowing for the inefficiency in propane burners, it was no cheaper than electricity per BTU -- but I put it in anyway.
Before you go to propane over electricity to save money, check your math carefully.
Hi Goffer,
Has anybody cooked on NG vs Propane?
Yep, can't tell any difference....love 'em both
Will the dryer cost half to operate?
Don't know....I use a solar clothes dryer for free with a rarely used backup electric
Have you been happy with gas logs?
Yes for now.....current house was designed to be minimum maintenance and usage...didn't want the hassles of a wood fireplace at this juncture in life.....gas makes a nice second to firewood
Will gas have added curb appeal if we sell the house?
Only to someone who benefits from it the same way you do but it won't hurt it any.
Pedro the Mule - Got Gas? Send it to Kevin
Solar clothes dryer? What's that? Hanging clothes on a clothes line?
Yo KaneoheBay,
Solar clothes dryer? What's that? Hanging clothes on a clothes line?
You got it! No cost to operate it and only a few bucks to install it. Seriously cuts your utility bill.
So how close are you to Oahu? Wife stayed in a house right next to the University of Hawaii for a month last August and we just entertained the people who own the house here in NC three weeks ago. Hated to see them go home as they are some wonderful folks but they did want to return home as they are native to Hawaii.
We sent them home with a quart jar of clover honey.....I understand that stuff trades pound for pound with gold there, haha.
Pedro the Mule - I'll be your way in four to five more years for a month
I have an attorney friend who's younger than me, mid-40's early 50's, who refuses to have an electrical clothes dryer installed in his house. Outdoor clothes line only. His wife just smiles and accomodates him. He likes the smell of the clothes when dried that way.
I live on Oahu, Kaneohe. Practically outside the Marine Base. Generally everything is more expensive than items in the continental US. However, on a road trip, while in Montana is visited a Walmart Supercenter and looked at the prices of items. I was surprised to find items comparably priced to those on Oahu. BTW, I NEVER shop at Walmart! Just a personal perference. Costco? OK. Only within the past vew years have gasoline prices in the US esceeded that on Oahu. I love it when that happens.
Glad you enjoyed your stay. I went to the University of Hawaii, Manoa campus. Had some friends who lived in NC for a while, Fort Bragg. :)
I enjoy your postings.
We have a propane cooktop with pilotless ignition and use 100# every 14-16 months. I installed propane for my MIL backup generator and DWH she uses approx 175# a year. This fall I will be installing an on-demand tankless and will use propane, that way I can run 85% of my house on the generator, which is a factor in the hurricane season.
WOW, thanks for all the quick responses!
I am at the same point in life, getting wood, hauling it inside and all that... The gas logs made by Peterson Real Fyre are very nice looking. I am sure we would use the fireplace alot more also.
Not looking at this project to save money to make it worth while, but as someone has said, the more on gas, the better living if the power is out. And I can add a generator later if I want.
I can't bury the tank (without major cost) since I am in a flood zone, the propane comany will install a 125lb size strapped to the house. Will lease for now, option to purchase at any time.
It seems no negatives to propane vs NG, again thanks for all the info.
Time to get some quotes for the pipe install. I have some questions but I will start a new thread for those.
Kevin
It's worth finding the max BTU rating of the stove you will install, divide that by the total BTU in one gallon of propane, and figure approx. how many gallons/day you might be burning, and at what cost. We have a smallish freestanding propane stove and in very cold weather when we run it a lot it drains the tank and runs up the bill/
With a small tank size you will probably find yourself running out and needing to refill during winter, when prices are highest. When possible I try to install 500g or larger tanks for customers. That way they can refill 1x per year, in the hottest part of the summer, when prices are lowest.
I have a friend whose mother was badly burned in an explosion of their home due to propane settling in the home when the pilot light went out and she tried to relight it. They lost their home and nearly lost the mother.
I am aware that adding gas to the house can cause big troubles if something like that were to happen. I will be installing a gas detector hardwired to my alarm system according to specs, which is approx 1' off the floor.
Kevin
We have propane for the dryer, cooktop and water heater. We also have a propane furnace but it doesn't get used too much because we have a coal stove. We used about 200 gallons of propane since filling up last August. We also own our own 1000 gal tank so we can shop for price. The church just got filled up for $1.59 / gallon and they have leased tanks. I wish we needed some at that price, it was more expensive last Aug. Depending on where you are and your property layout, a coal stove may be a viable alternative to wood burning. I have found it much easier (less exercise) burning coal than wood. We have easy access to that good N.E. PA anthracite coal, though.
I think that would be smart. It was terrible what happened to my friend's mom and his parent's house. The place looked like a bomb went off and blew it up. They had remodeled it a few years earlier. It was a two story house. The article is at http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2008/05/30/news/top_story/doc48406beeb435a891421708.txt
Thanks for the info. Because I am in a flood zone it would be a large expense for anchoring an in ground tank. The space I have for a tank would not fit a large horizontal tank, electrical meter is 13 feet away from center of a 125lb vertical tank and this is the only spot on back of house to install. Windows and AC are to close anywhere else.
So, I don't have the best conditions to get the best deals on gas purchase, but still it will be worth it to me.
The charts and tables I have been able to find to calculate energy costs show about half the cost for the dryer and the benefits already mentioned about faster drying.
Kevin
I have used natural gas and propane and prefer them over electric any day, with maybe an exception of an oven(still would want a gas cooktop)
gas water heater are faster recovery IMHO. I have freinds that still argue with me over it.
The wife loves gas heat stoves over wood heat stoves. I prefer the look of wood, but gas is sooooo much easier when you have neck and back injuries
i lived in Wash and power went out regularly. Always had a warm home and hot water. the Cook top had to lit manually lit. Oven didn't work because of the new fangled igniters.
Neighbor had back up generator in propane. they loved it. We would run a cord to our home to refer/freezer. I scratched their back, they scratched mine
I found that having both electric and propane/nat gas was a bonus selling feature.
If you do it yourself(and know what your doing), it is reasonable in costs.
Usuage costs depends on you location and the current gas prices/electric prices. I found first year introductory contracts and then they try nailing you in. gas seem to always go up a $1.00+ gallon. This was mostly true with the big companies as in Amerigas. Stay with the small, mom and pop companies
side note... there is a propane company in NorCal called PU propane. I thought it was funny and I never forgot their name. If they were in my area, I probably would have called them first. I just looked them up on the internet. $1.68 per gal
that's marketing for you
here's their pricing...
http://www.pupropaneinc.com/prices.htm
Edited 7/7/2009 12:15 pm by migraine
If your electric charges per KWH are high, then using propane can save a bunch of money.
Also, water heater recovery time is faster with a good propane WH versus an electric tank.
Clothes dry faster with propane (or NG) versus electric. Additional electric savings with propane because the motor spins less time to tumble the clothing.
When you have a large propane tank, the cost per unit of propane goes down versus having a small tank (or smaller BBQ 20lb tank).
Be aware that many propane dealers have a yearly minimum amount of propane use, otherwise they have a service fee. Also, the lower the volume you get delivered the higher the per gallon charge (and as a result % of taxes). Find out all details when comparing propane dealers.
In my situation to avoid that minimum charge and higher per gallon charges (I use propane for clothes dryer and cooking only), I bought my own tanks. I have two 60lb tanks with a switchover regulator. When one tank empties, the other takes over. Then I bring the empty to be refilled.
Around here, a person can haul up to a 90lb propane tank without a special permit. I chose 60lb tanks since they are easier to handle myself.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Be sure that the equipment you install is set up for lpg. The air to fule ratio is different than for natural gas, and if jetted for natural gas, you will have too rich of a flame.
Make sure you check on your insurance and local jurisdictions to be sure there isn't a surprise cost complying with their regs.