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I am a GC building my first house which happens to be my own. I have always done my own siding, but due to a busy schedule and vacation planned, I hired a local siding supplier to do the installation. I thought they would have a talented crew who would do the job right.
The first guy they sent out (one week later than promised) was working alone, only showed up half the time, then quit 1/4 way through the job. At this point I was ready to bring in my own guys, but they promised they would take care of things. The next crew they sent out had never worked for them before (all their crews were subbed out). The first day they were borrowing nail guns, ladders, etc. I started noticing poor workmanship and pointed things out, to which they replied..”oh yeah, we’ll fix that…” As they were finishing, I started going over the house carefully and noticed problems everywhere.
I could go on and on, but the bottom line is this: Every time I look at the work I get sick to my stomach. I haven’t paid them anything yet, and I am wondering how to proceed. The management of the company has admitted the poor quality. It seems to me that it will cause more problems to start tearing siding off. Any suggestions?
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Next time you hire sub for the first time, go look at their work in person, maybe while their on the job. If it's not important enough to you to do a little interviewing, or at least contact one of your peers for a referral to a known pro, your sorta gambling, right?
Look at the bright side. There will be more houses to side, and now you know who not to call.
nathan
*You're a GC building your 1st house? That sorta doesn't make sense. What were you last week? You should have stopped work as soon as you realized the train had left the tracks. Hoping that things would somehow get better is wishful thinking. Your only recourse is to ask the company to fix the problems. You will need to send them a detailed punch list, with pictures, or make up the list and have them send someone out to go over it with you. Make any necessary notes on the list, including when they will have the items corrected, and then have them sign it. Then if they don't make it right as agreed, you have a cause to withhold payment. But even if they don't do anything to make it right, they can still file a mechanics lein on the house -- if you don't have a signed contract stating what they agreed to do, you may have a problem.
*what kind of siding is this ?
*You can either work with the supplier and try to get everything fixed, this could be a long drawn out process and they may never fix it to your satisfaction. Or you could negotiate a reduction in the fee to be paid and maybe try to get the supplier to give you the material to fix the job at cost, then bring in your own guys and do the job to your own satisfaction and chalk it up as GC leason #1,213 learned.I would do option #2 personally. If it is my own house I would not be happy at all having to look at the shoddy work every day knowing I could of done it myself.My uncle (Iron worker) built his own house and subed out very little. Every part that he subed out he was not happy with the work and still talks about it to this day (20 years later). He is a perfectionist though. Just an example, he put up a tile roof and on EVERY single tile he would scrape off/file any rough part of the casting so the tiles would lay down on each other better. When you hire subs do you tell them this is your first house and it is yours? Can you really be in the GC business if the only house your building is yours? Just wondering.Good luck, I hope your business gets off the ground.
*Just popped in my head. Brand new GC building his very first house and you take a vacation. I really, really do hope it all works out, I am just finding this very amusing.Next time check out the sub or have a lead on site that can handle the problems before it is too late.
*In my judgment, the selection, timing, supervision, and use of subcontractors is the number one problem in contracting. No one builder or remodler can do it all. We all use subs. The GC's stable of subs is really the only thing a contractor has to sell, because you don't do it all yourself.I get mine through recommendations from other contractors and trades and architects that have seen the guys and their work. Price is generally not a big factor, as the costs are passed through with the bid. What is important is scheduling and the ability to meet a schedule, promptness in showing up and staying on the job until it is complete, the quality of the work, having all the right tools and gizmos, and follow through after the job is done. Keep the ones you like; fire the ones you don't. Verify their license with the State Contractors License Board. Get references, and look at their work. Most supply houses will tell you the addresses of the work where their materials were used (like siding, paint, and roofing). Drive around and check them out. Ask for, and make a note of, their current insurance company and the policy number. Some jobs should even be bonded, even in private jobs (public works are always bonded). Of course, you should present any sub with Construction Documents with design plans, material call outs and specs re installation. If you can't draw up simple plans, then buy Auto-Cad or hire an architect. The CD's should be a part of your contract, and incorporated by reference. You should have a local trade association with an AIA Standard Subcontractor Contract. If you don't have a copy, call the AIA and get one. Read it, and modify it to suit your needs. Get a couple books on the subject and read them. Aspen Law and Business have a couple good Construction Law books that explain how to contract and bargain, and what your damages and rights are. They have all the AIA forms.Always get a lien release after you pay them.If they f*ck up, take pictures, make contemporaneous notes, and document the problems with letters to the sub. I am very sorry for you Brent. But you have learned an important lesson, and you should be very thankful it is on your house and not a customer's. You might have been sued.I can't tell you whether to tear the siding off or not, as it depends on the nature and extent of the damage, poor workmanship, and how visible it is. Good Luck!
*I'm curious what you do for a living if you are your own only customer. "I'm a surgeon specializing in brain transplants. I've only had one customer. Now where did I put that left hemisphere?"I would be writing a letter to the company outlining the problems, and state that since it is obvious after two attempts to field a qualified crew that they are incapable of completing your job and that you will take care of correctly repairing and copmpleting the work yourself. I do not want incompetent people working on my jobs and it is obvious that incompetence runs from top to bottom in this organization. Keep taking vacations while untested personel are working on your customers homes and you'll be branded with the same reputation.
*Every note here blamed the guy because he was G.C. on his own first house. Nobody blamed the incomptence high school dropout that doesn,t give a damn about quality. just grab the money and run. I have to deal with these daily. I wish it was legal to drop some of them off the top floor of the building. It is really bad when contractor must cut throat the bid prices just to get the job then have to hire brother in laws to come in under budget. I really have no answer for what to do, I just wish more subs would care about quality instead of what they can get away with.
*you could shoot one of them- hang em upside down by the drive - sends a message.gotta be thereguess you know that nowbe a hardass at this pointmake them fix it to your standards or pay you for your time plus.one of the toughest hings about being a gc is being a prick.if yer gonna survive you better learn to be good at it.seems like it is time to start.
*I am not a GC (it's worse... I'm an engineer) but I GC'ed my own house. I talked to a loan officer who has also GC'ed a half dozen houses of her own, one of the best contractors in town, a decorator whose husband has been a builder for 30 years, and a preacher who builds houses on the side. I asked each "Who would you recommend I talk to?" and each one gave me the names of 3 or 4 subs they use all the time. Same names kept popping up. The only competitive bids I asked for was for heat & air, and framing material. The rest I just called, asked for their price, and hired them -- no haggling (I charge everyone the same for the work I do -- I'd be really pissed if someone tried to talk ME down). EVERY sub I used has done nearly perfect work. Couldn't ask for nicer folks to work with. Did not try to screw me because I wasn't a contractor. Maybe I'm just lucky.On the other hand, the finish work (painting, tile, hardwood, trim, doors, stairs) I'm doing myself because I haven't seen anyone's work that really suited me. I can live with my screw-ups, but not someone I paid to do it.Bottom line is you don't always get what you pay for, but you won't get anything you don't pay for (they're cheap for a reason). You should never hire anyone based on price and you should never hire anyone that doesn't come highly recommended from someone (preferrable several) in the business. There are just too many hacks out there.
*i you don't always get what you pay for, but you won't get anything you don't pay forYou realize, of course, that I am going to steal that, and start quoting you. LOL
*Thanks for the comments Nathan. After the first problems started, I called a few builder friends of mine and 3 of them recommended the same sider. I was called the company I had the contract with and told them I was going to bring in my own guys to finish the job, but they insisted they would get a crew out to finish things up quickly.Should have trusted my instincts and told them to take a hike.Brent
*Thanks for the comments Everyone.After the first problems started, I called a few builder friends of mine and 3 of them recommended the same sider. I called the company I had the contract with and told them I was going to bring in my own guys to finish the job, but they insisted they would get a crew out to finish things up quickly.Should have trusted my instincts an told them to take a hike.6-1/4" smooth hardiplank with shingled gablesThis is my first b complete house. I have been a GC for only 5 years, and started out doing anything I could find (digging out under houses, detrashing repos, etc.) Did repair and remodel as I learned the trades. Siding, roofing, floors, tile, trim, a little of everything. I'm not big time yet , but I am learning a lot and enjoying my career.I short platted my own lot where I own a house and am building the new house on the back lot. I also have a three lot development where I am doing all the storm drain, sewer and ground work myself. Just got permits on a small garage addition and am waiting for homeowners ok to start a $70,000 house addition that I got through referrals from another contractor who was too busy.Yes, my vacation came at a bad time. I have been working on getting the new lot recorded for the last year and the vacation planned for 6 months to attend my brothers wedding in San Diego. I guess I could have cancelled that, but my wife and kids would have kicked me out of the house. Let's see, when was the last vacation I took them on........? Bottom line: Doug is right on the money. I have a problem with being too nice and that has to change in business. I am well aware of the ramifications of problems like this occuring on a custom home. That is one of the reasons I have not built any customs or specs until I had the chance to work on my own to iron out any potential problems like this.Brent
*Just a little update.....went to the company with a proposal to pay for raw materials and small labor cost (which totalled about half of final bill)They gladly accepted my offer and were very apologetic. I had written out a full page of my complaints and had them sign the new agreement.They had fired the guy who was supposed to be supervising my job.Thanks for all CONSTRUCTIVE comments. BRENT
*good on ya brent!happy holidays
*Good job!!Nothing better then settling a dispute quick and easy for both sides.Sounds like a good siding company to buy material from if they are willing to do things like this with no hassle to keep the customer satisfied."Should have trusted my instincts an told them to take a hike."I have done this to myself several times also until I finally learned.
*Brent,Sometimes we can be a little harsh here.Anywhy , just wanted to pipe in with somemore advice,that I've learned the hard way.A company (sub-contractor) is only as good as it'semployees. I use subs with good reputations and were the higher $ bids. But from time to time maybe it's a guy they sent out, or maybe the sub's boss is getting lax, or the crew is hung over from the weekend , but they will and have try to pull a fast one on you. If there were 100 hrs in a day and I was 20 years younger , I'd do most all the work myself.Now I know there are a lot of you out there that have some regular subs who are great and have never let you down....but hear this story....my concrete sub who I've used several years and is not cheap , well this summer , don't know what come over me , but I decide to dig back the rock over the drain tiles (before the backfill was done)and found two spots where the drain tile was a foot shy of connecting with it's sleave. This would rendered the basement drain system inoperable. Would of this house had a wet basement problem later? Who knows.But if it did could you imagine the time and cost to determine why and fix it. Got to watch em like a hawk. Good luck with the house Brent.
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I am a GC building my first house which happens to be my own. I have always done my own siding, but due to a busy schedule and vacation planned, I hired a local siding supplier to do the installation. I thought they would have a talented crew who would do the job right.
The first guy they sent out (one week later than promised) was working alone, only showed up half the time, then quit 1/4 way through the job. At this point I was ready to bring in my own guys, but they promised they would take care of things. The next crew they sent out had never worked for them before (all their crews were subbed out). The first day they were borrowing nail guns, ladders, etc. I started noticing poor workmanship and pointed things out, to which they replied.."oh yeah, we'll fix that..." As they were finishing, I started going over the house carefully and noticed problems everywhere.
I could go on and on, but the bottom line is this: Every time I look at the work I get sick to my stomach. I haven't paid them anything yet, and I am wondering how to proceed. The management of the company has admitted the poor quality. It seems to me that it will cause more problems to start tearing siding off. Any suggestions?