Orbital or vibrating sander for woodwork
Taylorsdad
| Posted in Tools for Home Building on
I have a good vibrating pad sander but have heard that the orbital is better. I’m looking at Makita’s 5″ 2 amp model which gets rave reviews. Which type delivers a better sanded surface? Is there a difference? Any insights are appreciated.
Replies
Orbital takes off more material faster. It also leaves little swirly marks. No matter how fine the grit, I've never been able to make them work without the swirls. Any tiny little piece of grit that accidentally gets on the pad will leave more swirlys. I avoid them entirely for fine work that will be varnished. Perfectly good for painted stuff or rough sanding. With a straight-line sander, any scratches are less obvious because they look like the wood grain.
What you stated is what I figured to be the case. Maybe its best to get the Makita and keep the existing unit and simply use the one that best fits the application. I've heard too many great things about that Makita and figure it should be in my quiver of tools.
I love my Mikita, it's sanded over twenty thousand bd. feet and still is great.. don't waste anymore time buy one..
I read the question to ask if an orbital (assume this is a random-orbital) is better than a vibratory. The answer as far I know is, yes. The swirl marks mentioned in one response will happen with either type of sander but is greatly reduced by using a random orbital sander as opposed to a vibratory. The random orbital is also faster at removing stock (as someone mentioned already). The biggest limitation I've found with the random orbital sanders is that, due to their round sanding discs, they can't be used to sand into corners. For those situations you could use either a vibratory, or god forbid, you arm and some sandpaper.
About the only type of mechanical sander that won't leave swirl marks is one that runs the sandpaper linearly, which would be either a drum of belt sander, neither of which is likely to be used for fine sanding (unless you're like Norm and have a 36-inch wide self-feeding drum sander).
One additional advantage that the ROS has over the pad sander is the convenience of disk replacement. I have a Dewalt model that uses hook and loop disks. Not sure if the Makita has hook and loop or pressure adhesive disks, but whichever you pick, you will love not having to tear off squares of sandpaper and fold them under the wire clips of your pad sander.
The ROS moves material quickly on the coarse grits, but you can also get the job done quicker by marching through the various grits far faster than you can with your pad sander.
I predict that your old pad sander will sit unused on your shelf once you get a ROS.
Orbital to avoid those mentioned swirly marks clean well the surface between grit changes. I also have Makita and when it dies I will get another Makita.
Philip
Hey, I don't know if anyone else was aware of this, but Makita makes the same unit with a Variable speed option (#B05012). Can I get some insight as to whether or not this option could lend to tp excellent results?
I've tried a few. I'm on my 3rd Porter Cable, I have the Makita and love it. The Bosch was better out of the box than it is now but good for quick removal of material. The Millwakee sucked.
What I look for in a random orbit is a pad that doesn't spin out of control when it is lifted. Both the PC and the Makita have an excellent dampening system.
One of my PCs was variable speed, I rarely used the slower speeds but is useful for softer material.
I remember when ¼ sheet palm sanders were such incredible time savers, RO's are light years beyond the palms. You won't regret the Makita.
Turtleneck
Thanks. I'm seeing the VS version for $10-$15 more than the standard version. Maybe I'll just spring for it. If I don't dial -down the RPM's, I'll still have the option to do it and I guess thats worth $10!
I have the 5" Makita variable speed, as well as a 5" Dewalt both of with use the velcro sandpaper. Both collect the dust through ports in the paper. Neither one matches the 6" Porter Cable variable speed, PSA. I liked my first one so much that I bought a second. I use the first with 80 grit and the second with either 120 or 150 paper. Nothing removed material faster. If I have to sand a rabbet I then use the 1/4 pad sander, ROckwell or now porter cable. I may end up getting the vacuum attachment for the Porters but they are awsome. I have 9 sanders, for different purposes, and Use the Porter usually first.
I've been using the DeWalt variable speed 5" R.O. for several years now and I use the speed adjustment far more than I would have thought. I don't think I'd be happy with a sander without that feature - spend the extra money, you won't regret it.
Oh, and by the way, PSA paper is a lot cheaper than hook & loop, check it out.
Thanks Jim. I had not thought to consider pad cost in my decision. Thankks for bringing that to light.
9 sanders! You're probably the King of qualification in this thread! Thanks for the input. Whats your opinion on the variable speed option? Based on what others have commented - it seems like I should get it. Do you like the PC model more because of the extra inch of sanding area?
There was nothing in the thread?
hmmm...I think I was gonna say something about the fact that that 1" difference (between 6" and 5" R.O. sanders) seemed a lot more impressive when you thought of it as 20%, but figured that was probably obvious and I was talking too much again...must have click the "post" button instead of the "cancel" button, sorry about that.
Definitely the words of a true craftsman. No problem and thanks. I'm convinced the right choice is V.S.
I am also looking for a sander, and have heard good things about the PC 333VS. Any thoughts? PC or the VS Makita?
The only downside on the VS is that this is one more thing to squeeze. There is a lot to like about snap action switches in that it takes minimal effort to squeeze it in the on position.
On a big job of sanding (hours) your arm gets enough of a workout holding the sander in position with all the vibrations added in. From my experience I'd pass on the VS if you vary trigger pressure to make it work.
The damping thing on the ROS sanders must be neat. My Ryobi 5 1/4 doesn't have that. In fine sanding it is a problem you need to acount for, but I must have run over 1000 Hook & loops thru that thing. The only thing that dies is the hook on the bottom of the sander. A new pad is 12 bucks. Consider the local HOBO store has a newer version than mine for 24 bucks complete I might just get another backup. I can store it with the other half dozen vibrating sanders I bought. Yep among them is the Makita 1/4 sheet. You'll never go back.
Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
re - From my experience I'd pass on the VS if you vary trigger pressure to make it work.
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Festo's sanders as well as their other tools have a variable speed dial, separate from the trigger.
Geez, Jim,
I hate to correct you on this but Area= pi x radius squared
area being 5"diameter....r=2.5" 3.14 X (2.5x2.5)= 19.625
area being 6" diameter.... r=3.0" 3.14 X (3x3)= 28.26
28.26/19.62= 1.44 = 44% more surface area
19.62/28.26= .69 = 69% less surface area
You could also say:
The glass is 44% less full or
The glass is 69% more empty
But I guarantee you'll get a LOT more sanding from a six inch disc
AlanAlan Jones
Yeah, yeah, man, I woke up the next morning and realized pi x diameter = circumference...what a knucklehead. Good thing I wasn't ordering concrete for sonotubes that day, huh?
Sorry for the bum stear and thanks for the correction Alan. You are 100% right.
The variable speed option lets you tailor the sanding to the need. For example, if you just want to remove a little you can up the grit and drop the speed. You can do FiNEr, if thats a word, sanding in tighter areas without switching sanders by dropping the speed and working very carefully. Really though, I like the variable speed option and would not buy a sander without it. I allows you to spread the grit, so to speak. You can get agressive on an area or just back off and lightly attack it. If I were to wish for anything, though, it would be for the vacuum attachment as a lot of my work is inside repairs and the Porter can really generate a lot of dust if you want. Just my thought.
PS, sorry for the late reply.
best "palm sander" ... is the PC speed block ...
techinically a orbital ....
takes regular old sand paper ripped to size...
will hog out what ever ya need or put the fine finish one the master piece......
speed block it used to be called.....
not sure if that's still the name ....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Thanks for the post about the PC 6" VS sander. I've been thinking about getting a new sander for a while now because I've been having some problems with my Dewalt. I've had it in for repair once already because it stopped oscillating and just spun. It's started doing the same thing again less than a year later.
Given that the PSA disks are cheaper (didn't know that before), and that the PC 6 " is 20% bigger (thanks Jim), and that variable speed is a good thing to have, I think I have all the excuses I need to buy a new tool. Gotta have it honey, honest I do!
I have a PC sander and have used it for many years. Still would not use it on fine stuff without a lot of straight line sanding to get rid of the swirls. As far as the PSA disks, don't leave the disks stuck on the pad for an extended period. They eventually get hard to remove. Once you remove them, they're trash. The hook & loop can be removed and reused until they're actually worn out. I think the quality of the paper on hook & loop is often better than the PSA and if you change grits a lot they are an advantage. I have both types of pads for my sander. Don't scrimp on the paper. The PC brand disks don't do well for me. The 3M gold stuff is better.
Okay, hang on there a second.
I think the area of a circle = pi x radius squared. If that's right, the area of a 5" disc is 19.625" and the area of a 6" disc is 28.26", or 40 something percent larger.
As for the reusability of PSA paper, I have more than one sander. I usually leave 100 grit on one and 150 on another, and use a sheet until it's shot. I have a third with a hook and loop pad so I can gradually use up all the H&L paper I bought before I learned (thanks Chuck Crawford) how much cheaper PSA paper is. I also use the H&L sander for those finishing bonnets that go up to 2000 grit (got them from an auto body supply house).
It's true that PSA paper can be a pain to adhere to the sander if you work in a dusty environment (is there any other kind of shop?). That's why I keep a can of 3M spray adhesive in my sandpaper bucket - light mist of that and even dusty discs stick just fine.
Of course, I've heard many a craftsman mutter something about "frikkin' sanding" or "real carpenters don't sand", but I use sandpaper a lot, a heck of a lot, generally keep a sheet or two in my nail bags. I can't imagine not having a couple sanders close at hand - great tools. I don't use my belt sander much anymore, but my drum sander gets a workout pretty regularly and I'd be lost without my random orbitals.
Taylorsdad,
People have mentioned the variable speed feature. a moot point if you get an air powered one as the speed is infinitely adjustable (assuming you have a decent compressor). I have used all types, and my favorite is the 6" air powered palm type (see below). Incredibly more ergonomic and cooler running than the electrics.
Jon
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WorkshopJon -
I will do a search in Breaktime and Knots for this....
What is the 'typical' minimum sized compressor that can drive a pneumatic tool such as a sander or impact wrench (one tool at a time...)
I suspect it would have to be a stationary unit.
There are some other needs for a compressor but I can't afford to have several for different tasks.
(I was interested in the Thomas 2820 but they seem to have changed the model numbers and lineup.)
Mobility would be convenient but portability is not a major concern as I would not be lugging it around like a pro.
Thanks for any tips.
Edited 10/26/2003 10:18:01 AM ET by Ahneedhelp
"What is the 'typical' minimum sized compressor that can drive a pneumatic tool such as a sander or impact wrench "
A...help,
Kinda' a tricky question as the way compressors are rated seems to be very subjective, with Sears (Craftsman) and made in China being the worst.
A tool that is used continuously like a palm sander could probably get by with a true 2HP ~9-12CFM unit. The slower the speed you run the tool at, the less air it consumes, and conversely single stage compressors efficiency really start to taper off above 100PSI. A combination like that will reach a point of equilibrium at some point. ie. with the compressor running continuously, you may get it the tool to spin at 5000RPM (instead of its 10,000RPM and 16CFM rating)
Size really doesn't matter that much for an intermittent use tool like an impact wrench providing you have at least a 20 gallon tank.
I currently have a portable 2HP 2 piston Cample Hausfield that I hardly use and served me well. Did the job but barely. Also now have a 7.5HP two stage 175PSI, 24CFM 80 gallon that can keep up with ANYTHING except my sandblaster, as that will use what ever you can give it.
Jon
Thank you for the fast reply, WorkshopJoh.
Been reading some of the comments yielded by the search.
I think the best bet is to oversize the unit if jobsite portability is not a major issue as long as it has the ability to be wheeled around.
I don't mind using a cargo dolley once in a while when it becomes necessary.
Maybe a large veritcal tank unit, maybe belt driven.
I'll keep searching for more info.
Thanks again.