3 1/8″ x 12″ x 23′-0″ Glu-lam, with a little nip off the end, for sale. Contact my garage framer.
The plans have it pocketed in the wall with the top edge flush with the top plate. In all fairness it will carry the roof load just fine like this but I have additional hoist loads in store for it. Otherwise I would have just used a king truss.
According to my framer, this is how it’s always done. Is this how the rest of you would approach a typical Glu-Lam install on a garage hip if it was left up to you?
Kevin Halliburton
“Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men.” – Solomon
Replies
plans call for 12" deep, not 5" that he gave you..... but do call it out as t/beam = t/plate?
it's so easy to ask prior to cutting such a high dollar piece of wood....
depending on the load, it might be fine but I wouldn't take my word for it.
"The plans have it pocketed in the wall with the top edge flush with the top plate."
Really? Nice and clear so we can all understand it?
What kind of a framer makes decisions that might compromise the structural integrity of the building, without first discussing it with the owner and engineer?
Not one I would consider hiring.
Give him a red handkerchief to tie onto the back of that, so the cops don't stop him when he drives it home.
I'm pretty sure I saw that detail in a glulam article in FHB. IIRC, the author said it was acceptable if the cut off triangle wasn't too deep or too long.
I suspect it will still carry your hoist load, but the manufacturer should be able to tell you for sure.
It is too deep and too long for the load by my very rough calculations. With a 4/12 pitch I've got 5" of the 12" thick beam left where it starts bearing on the wall.
It will still easily hold up the point where the column supporting the hip intersection about mid span lands but I don't have enough reserve for a block and tackle that I might just decide to pick my truck up with or something.
The plans are clear and the framer gave me absolutely no grief about replacing it. It's just that he "does this all the time." Doesn't seem like there is any point in buying a 12" beam when you lay the end back like that. While it's back to nearly full strength by mid-span that connection at the wall just doesn't look like a solid way to typically handle this sort of thing to me.
I know I have plenty to learn, I don't even know if they were making glu-lams when I was framing in the seventies and eighties. I'm just curious if any of you do this as a "standard" practice.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
>>According to my framer, this is how it's always done. Is this how the rest of you would approach a typical Glu-Lam install on a garage hip if it was left up to you?
The framer thinks that is a pocket beam????
And he thinks he can change the plans to suit himself?!?!?!?!
Tell him to make it like the plans at his cost or you'll sue.
SamT
Edited 4/2/2004 4:38 pm ET by SamT
Well no, he doesn't think it's a pocket beam, it's more that he doesn't think a pocket beam is necessary here.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Plans show a pocket? With some sort of supporting post or studs under that beam?
And he decided to do it this way?
Looks like he framed the wall without looking at the plans.........
Then decided the hell with it and stuck it on top?
Joe H
In all seriousness, If I was the framer, I think I would have done it his way also. Why would you put a header down into a room 12" when it could be hid up above just as easy? I don't think he wrecked it structurally at all. If I'm thinking right, that's where the hip would be(where we usually put a carrier truss. If he is not seeing the whole picture of what you want to do later(which are not on the plans) he is only working with 1/2 of the information.
Plans change. People make mistakes.
Keith, if you have a set of plans showing X, and you think it would be better to do Y, is it your decision alone?
On the biggest single structural member in the building you would decide to put it where you want it, NOT where the plans show it?
Joe H
Edited 4/2/2004 5:56 pm ET by JoeH
that is nicely cut - and poorly thought out.
you build for potential.
he went off the print and limited your load bearing and increased his bearing of the load and that is not common practice for a smart carpenter...
well put hub..."expectations are premeditated resentments"
Thanks keith,
I just put you in my address book as some to never hire just because you think you know better than the owner and the architect, what the owner has in mind to do with the room.
What else would you build contrary to plans in order to save a little material and time so your profit would be higher?
Who cares that the owner will have to pay the archy to redraw the plans and get them reengineered and get them reapproved by the AHJ just so's you can make a couple of dollars more?
SamT
Sam...then I'll put you in my book as someone to never frame for......because around here, we don't run around saying I'll "sue you". We build relationships with the subs, that last for years and are highly profitable for both parties....not by crying about 1 mistake and trying to extract a bite out of someones a$$ and a threat to sue if you don't do it my may at your cost.
I would have consulted the owner, and the archy before I did it my way.....Just curious to see what the exact load for this beam is intended to be and how much he weakened it. Hoist huh....compression on top, tension on bottom.
Do you really think it was easier to cut that beam after it was up as opposed to notching a few plates and putting in a couple of studs????
>>If I was the framer, I think I would have done it his way also
Now you say you would have consulted someone. Ok we are working on a relationship here.
Let me ask you, what your ultimate solution would be if one of your subs , plumber, for instance, cut 4' off a $1000 custom vanity, and told you "We always install 3' vanities." and refused to make it right?
SamT
Edited 4/2/2004 10:11 pm ET by SamT
We work closely with all new subs, and granted those are few and far between, because unless someone dies, we've been using the same ones forever. There are new employees of subs, but they are supervised by the sub foreman. But basically they know how we do things.
If someone chopped a vanity...ouch. If they admit and offer to pay..great. I'd offer to split it. If not, I let them know what they did, how much it's going to cost ME, and go on. Next time they are on my job, they are going to be thinking about last time and how much they cost me( this is sometimes a worse feeling than if they had paid themselves, and they will go way beyond to please me and gain redemption for the prior F_UP). You can generally tell when someone feels bad and has learned from what they've done, vs just a sloppy SOB that doesn't care about anyone or anything....and face it, you won't call them back for anything anyway.
Either way you and they have learned...and education cost money no matter where you get it. Mistakes are great learning tool.
I hate the word SUE... I dispise attorneys who sue..I don't get scared, just PO'd. It's like a big guy getting whipped at a fist fight by a little guy and he pulls a gun. I had a customer early in my career that paid everything in cash and always tried to chisel the price because of that fact. He cried one day about sueing a sub(a good guy that did a great job with materials the homeowner supplied, which turned out to be crap) said it was faulty workmanship. I calmly tried to plead for the subs point, but this joker kept going on about this cousin the lawyer......I calmly said as leaving" I don't have any lawyer relatives, but my dad and brother are accountants...... for the IRS"
As a practicing engineer for 30 years, I can assure you that deviations from the plans will cause all hell to break loose. I've had a few 'discussions' with foremen and/or superintendents who thought that "the way they always did it" was better. My answer was always the same........."If you think you have a better way, let's talk. I'll listen to what you think and - if necessary - explain why I designed it that way.
Many times, compromises were made (and became part of my next design). I also found that most formen/superintendents had little knowledge about the regulatory requirements that dictated some of my designs. Once they understood them, the problem disappeared. A couple of times, however, it had to be "my way or the highway".
The name of the game has to be communication in both directions.
Keith,
I just re-read back through this thread and I think you have articulated what is bugging me about this whole thing. There is no doubt this was not done according to the plans, and communication has clearly been a problem, but I don't believe this was intended as a cheapskate shortcut.
I like to be flexible and fair, Lord knows I make a mistake or two of my own sometimes. There is a huge difference in my mind between someone looking to screw you and someone who accidentally shot himself in the foot. The way he handled it, no argument, just an apology and a commitment to immediately take care of it to my satisfaction, just really took the vinegar out of me.
This would be a lot easier if my engineer wasn't out of town right now. If this can be made to work it's sometimes better to find a way to to fix it rather than tear it out and start over. Guys who take care of their screw-ups without a word of protest are all too rare these days.
I did let this framer know that he had some flexibility in framing this garage. Of course, I understood that he would be doing it, not a couple of guys who weren't in on the meeting we had before framing began. This change is a little more than exercising some flexibility in my mind but if this is a common practice I'd like to work with him. Who knows, maybe I'll catch a similar break the next time I screw up.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Now you're calling me an "ARTICULATOR".... well that's the last straw..... he hehe
Someone mentioned that a glulam could be beveled on the edge 3x depth from end to center(3') that cut looks close to me(without any size reference besides the stated depth) and must retain 1/3 of the height at the end(4") ,again that looks like it in the picture.
I was on the fence about the structure stuff until you said" I wanted walls 24" OC and rafters are 48" OC with strapping for the metal roof. This gave me a WAY different picture of what you wanted than what I originally thought. This is an attached garage? What is your geographical location?
Trying to formulate a mental picture here....I'm a mental person.
Someone mentioned that a glulam could be beveled on the edge 3x depth from end to center(3') that cut looks close to me(without any size reference besides the stated depth) and must retain 1/3 of the height at the end(4") ,again that looks like it in the picture.
The end of the beam at the outside edge of the wall is just under 4" and the cut extends from the end a little more than 2 feet so it is just over the edge of what is allowed by that rule.
The rafters are doubled up at 4'-0" O.C. for the simple reason that the exposed rafter tails on the structural Insulated roof are at that spacing and I needed to carry the same roof treatment to the garage and wrap around porch. 24" O.C. is perfectly acceptable for this structure, IF ALL THE FRAMING COMPONENTS LINE UP. The 24", 48" spacing was not for "cheap" reasons. The tails extend beyond the walls 2'-0" and get wrapped in copper - there is no facia or sofit.
That is another issue. The tail that is supposed to stick out beyond the wall carries a small load and there isn't a really solid way to scab it on now without adding some material to the tail that would make it look different from all the rest. There were extenuating reasons for everything about this design that are not articulated on the plans. The visual aspects are as important as the structural. We covered that in our pre-construction meeting.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter all that much now. The new beam should be here in the morning and the rest of the job should be knocked out in less than a day. The framer and I will both have the taste of sour grapes in our mouths for a few days but my family will be in this house a long time after he has forgotten our names. Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Sounds cool, take some pics of those tails so we can see. Around here we box everything in bacause of insulation and weather, and gutters....I love exposed, with nice scroll cuts and no gutters.....maybe I should move south.
Kevin
Your post raises a few issues, the beam in question needs to be deep to carry the bending moment at mid-span, but at the supports the load to be carried is all shear forces. One of the benefits of glue lams is that you don't need "good lumber" for the whole depth of the beam, just the top and bottom sections. Wood is much stronger in shear than in bending so the amount cut out of the beam is probably not be a problem for the shear load and the cut-out doesn't appear to extend far enough into the span to affect the bending load at mid span.
The area I'm more concerned about is where is the "column" that carries the beam's load into the foundation ?
kevin whats the height of the cieling when the glulam would be sunk 12" in to the room or more correctly garage?? not that it matters ,just curious. i'm with sam t on this one...... b"expectations are premeditated resentments"
I love it when guys mess up and say stuff like that. "I've been doing it this way for twenty years son"
Well, twenty years is a long time to be f*cking up.
Plans call for a pocket beam. You give 'em a pocket framed beam. Simple as that. You can't go around making judgement calls like that. I'm a framer. I frame. I don't make engineering decisions because I don't get paid to make engineering decisions. I see something on the plans I don't like.......I'll run it by you. You don't like my idea, no sweat, I build it according to the plans. It's all about liability to me. It's a bummer, but he shoulda looked closer at the plans (assuming it was on there). It happens.
WA,
As I understand it, laminated timbers designed for bending and shear are assembled with higher grade material outermost, and successively lower grade stuff toward the center. When the framer tapers the beam like that in the picture, he’s cutting away the strongest part of the beam on the compression side. It might increase the potential for failure along the horizontal axis of the beam if you’re going to stress it midway with a point-load. (Chainfall lifting a heavy engine, overweight pole dancer, etc.).
I think you can taper a glulam designed for a particular load within the following: from end of beam to center, 3Xdepth. So in this case, the taper can be 3 feet long. The height of the end has to be a minimum of 1/3 X depth, or 4â€, here. He definitely needs to build-up a post below the beam bearing—I don’t see a post in the photo, but maybe he likes to leave something to do for the helpers.
But to answer the question directly, no. I’d never just take it upon myself to change a structural installation contrary to specification. Second guessing something like that isn’t the way to go—it’s so much easier to just present your alternative and its benefits and let the designer make the decision. The framer obviously didn’t know about the hoist loads you were anticipating--so there you go.
Your framer should place the R behind the A and call himself the THE FARMER.
What he has done to the glue- lam is pretty to look at but it won't be so pretty when the roof starts to deflect and you will get that nice sway back horse for a roof your framer FARMER just gave you. I belive if the archy or engy wanted to have an upset beam they would have clearly stated so in the print. This part of the roof structure was designed to do something other than what we all can assume. Your framer just tried to hide a mistake by not framing in the pocket while laying out the wall,,, If he had caught this while in the planning stage he should of and would of at least put 4 king studs under the beam. Tell your Framer (FARMER) to load up the wagon and hit the road.
Well, the easiest way to do it would have been to use trusses instead of this silly stick framing. (-:
But seriously - That's an awful lot of meat to be taking out of a beam. Sure don't do much for me.
I've seen beams in these situations both approved AND turned down. It simply depends on the reaction at that point. As a rule of thumb, I'd say the majority of them will fly if more than half the beam is still there. That's obviously not the case in this situation.
We have software now that will analyze beams with tapered ends. You might check with your supplier if you're curious.
One other note - A 12" beam spanning 23' ain't gonna carry a whole heck of a lot. Don't know what kind of loads will be on it, but it won't carry much.
Two fonts walk into a bar. The bartender says: "We don't serve your type here."
Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be a DOUBLE stud under the end ? Seems to me that even if the installation is approved, there is no support at the ends. The weight of the beam will cause the wall to fail ? Just my two cents.
Want to make God laugh? Tell Him you've got plans.
- Anonymous
Ok, this should have probably been in the building techniques section instead of photos. I was just curious if glu-lam beams are routinely cut like this.
Several have speculated so let me offer a little more history. I had already framed the majority of the house myself but I needed to get the garage done so my electrician could get his panels mounted and I didn't have time to take care of it myself. I took two bids from framers recommended by guys I trust. This guy was not the low bidder but he supposedly could get to it sooner. As it turns out, the other guy would have probably been long gone by now and I would have been happy.
This is not a high priority job for any framer, I know that. It's a one shot deal and it's nothing special, just a garage that is a little nicer than a carport. My plans were done for myself, not another framer so I detailed a couple of sections for him to clarify things for him.
We had a pre-build meeting and I went over the plans with him. He scribbled some notes here and there on the wall framing that was already in place but I don't think he reviewed those notes while he was framing. Actually he wasn't framing it at all...
The framer hired a couple of nailer and cut man to throw the walls up, no window openings or anything. He then comes back and cuts in the stuff that requires "framing knowledge." The framer I hired has hardly been on site and I don't think he communicated any of our conversation to the crew.
Studs were supposed to be located 24" on center, lined up under the double 2x6 rafters at 4'-0" O.C with 2x strapping across that to hold up the metal roof panels. I got 16" O.C. with nothing lined up. That's fine, I can live with it. I've scheduled several on-site meetings with him but he is never there when he is supposed to be. Nothing we talk about on the phone seems to get done so when I saw that he had the beam sitting on the top plate I planned to talk to him about it in one of those meetings - again, he didn't show. He came by early the next morning and cut it.
As for the design, there is no ceiling in the garage. This beam hangs down below where the ceiling would have been. Head clearance is no big deal. It's skinnier than a door header and the roof is vaulted above it. The bottom of the beam is about 7'-4" above the floor.
Anyway, he agreed to take care of it, insisted on it in fact. He is a good guy with a solid reputation. I won't ever hire him again but his business probably won't be hurt by my one shot job. He made several mistakes on the job - primarily entrusting it to others and failing to communicate. Frankly, I don't think he had time to do it and he should have just declined my offer to bid it. I think he saw it as an opportunity to get a couple of low grade framers to bang it out for him and pocket the profit on their labor.
The worst part of the whole deal is that a good friend, and outstanding framer, lost his job in South Texas and called me two days after I hired these guys to see if I needed any help. That's how it always seems to work isn't it?
Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Just a quick thought to add -
If he hasn't already set the replacement beam, I'd have him set it as high as possible. Like 5" above the plate and the rest below.
Having 7'4" to the bottom of the beam isn't much. Anything you could do to increase that a bit would be a good idea.A backward poet writes inverse.
7'4" to the bottom of the beam isn't much
I appreciate the suggestion Ron but anything that will fit through the garage door will also fit under this beam. The double rafters centered over the beam also need to extend beyond the wall so I can't raise the beam much above top plate height without getting into the rafters too far to allow that. There is no ceiling in the garage. I have a 4/12 vaulted "ceiling" at the bottom of the rafters everywhere else. The loftiness of that space above the beam will all but eradicate any visual perception that the beam is "too low." Besides, it's "perty" - I like to have it down where I can admire it. :-)>
Oh yea, that reminds me of one other reason the pocket was semi-important. There are no ceiling joists to counter any beam twist. Both ends of the beam need to be locked pretty tightly for optimum strength. I could probably just throw some kickers back up to the rafters along its length but I don't want to clutter up the space. This whole design is all about clean and simple. With that focus, I can't for the life of me figure how it got so complicated. :-)>
And for what it's worth to those who are interested, I spoke with another engineer friend of mine last night. What the framer did would probably work but it would not be as strong, or as visually appealing as the initial design. I appreciate the framer's decision to take care of it without kicking up a fuss. I think I've agonized over it a lot more than he has.
As far as he is concerned it's taken care of, or will be as soon as the beam gets here. Deterring him from that path at this point would probably be more of a hassle for him than just fixing it and putting the whole thing behind us. The beam cost less than $200. I think he puts a pretty high value on his reputation. Replacing it is the right thing for both of us to do in this circumstance.
Thank you all for your excellent input, I appreciate it. Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
"...anything that will fit through the garage door will also fit under this beam. "
I don't doubt that a bit. But get a sheet of plywood in there and try to turn it end for end sometime, and you'll be cussing that beam.
I know it SEEMS like it's not in the way. But it will be.
One of these days you're gonna bang something against it. Then you're gonna remember this thread and what I said about it. And you're gonna think: "There's no way in HELL I'm gonna post anything on BT about that and give Boss Hog the satisfaction of knowing he was right."
(-:Presidential campaign getting kind of ugly, did you hear about this? Yesterday, a 27-year-old woman came for to deny rumors that she had an affair with Democratic front-runner John Kerry. The woman added, "I would never cheat on Bill Clinton." [Conan O'Brien]
Not to mention that 7'4" doesn't leave a whole lot of room between the beam and the engine (or whatever) for the chain hoist & sling.
Dave
Not to mention that 7'4" doesn't leave a whole lot of room between the beam and the engine (or whatever) for the chain hoist & sling.
For the record, hoist and sling are for rolling the concrete counters when we get there. I may put a ceiling in there for storage one day but with a 4/12 pitch it's hardly worth it. Still, why cut the load carrying abilities of any structural member if you don't have to?
Mechanical guys want to have a nip or two at my steel beam and joist hangers in the kitchen now. At least they asked first - probably on account of the fact that their sawz-all blades wouldn't cut it. :-)>
I'll be sure and give you guys the opportunity to tell me, "I told ya so" should I ever regret the decision to put that garage beam where I did. :-)>Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Ding-Dang-Dadburned mechanical contractor... why I oughta!!! That settles it! From here on out I'm going to hire the cheapest, sorriest, low down, no count contractors I can find. I like to expect what I'm getting.
Why bother asking if you're just gonna cut where you are told not to anyway?!! They hacked the ears off my overhang joist hangers against specific directions not to touch them! I told them to draw the hole they needed on the steel beam's web and I would have the hole cut for them. I saw that they had drawn a black line on the joist hanger ears so I told them- in very clear and concise english, in terms that could not possibly be misunderstood, "DO NOT CUT THE JOIST HANGERS."
When my welder came by to cut the flange, I shifted the hole they drew over, blocked up from the oak tree column under the hanger on one side and took the whole ear off that one hanger rather than split the cut between the two hangers they marked.
The HVAC guy said, "well, the other hanger was still in the way a little, and I saw where you had cut the one right next to it like that so I just figured it was ok to cut the rest of them." I sure would like to have a picture of the look on my face when he told me that. There will probably come a day I'd think it was pretty funny.
We ended up welding some 1/2" plate "shelves" under the joists on the bottom flange of the steel beam the joists hang off of to back up the now useless hangers. It was that or take the second floor load bearing wall and decking off above it and weld new hangers on from the top. It's a good thing this isn't part of the structure that will be exposed.
Here is a picture of the place where they went through the beam with their ductwork before the offending cuts were made. They left me about 1/8" of metal at the top of the overhang joist hangers to carry the 2x12 joists. I will try to get a picture next time I'm out there. I swiped the second picture off of Simpson's web site to show you the area they cut.
Un-B-Leavable!!
Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Edited 4/13/2004 5:45 pm ET by Wrecked Angle
Are you going to add a stud under every rafter? That is required around these parts. If nothing is lined up then you got more problems. I can't believe the framer framed the windows after the walls were already raised. That is LAME. I don't care what you heard. .... That guy is an amatuer and a hack!
The glulam in the photo is essentially a 4.5" high beam as far as it's strength is concerned.
If you want to raise the new beam about another 6 or 8" then you can build the pocket through the plates and up to the top of the HAP. A steel strap to tie the plates together should be good enough to mitagate the break at the pocket.Mike Callahan, Lake Tahoe, Ca.
so kevin enuff about yer gerage witch nun of us wood park in...
last pic i saw of the house had a gigantic kid in front of it- i thought- man he needs taller doorways- so how about the good stuff?
what does that home on the range of yours look like now?
Here's what it looked like a couple of weekends ago.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
now we are talking...
so far so good eh?
bring it on man-
One day at a time - The wrap around porch will make all the difference when I get there. I've got to get the rock drill back on site for that one. It's a pretty cool toy. I'd never seen one before we did the drive gate posts.
I'll post some more pics when things get more interesting.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
"I've got to get the rock drill back on site for that one. It's a pretty cool toy."
Make sure you get a pic of that tractor. (-:I went to the museum where they had all the heads and arms from the statues that are in all the other museums.
We'll do Boss!Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
kevin... looking good !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thank you Mike.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Kevin,
I recently had to get into this same discussion with a framer. He wanted to notch a 5 1/8" x 21' deep x 22' long glulam so it could sit on the wall instead of sitting in the wall. Basically we were going to hold it up about 9 1/2" so that the top was even with the floor joists and there would be more headroom in the garage. He wanted to make a 5 1/2" x 12" notch in the bottom ends of the beams so the beam could sit on top of the wall.
We've had problems with inspectors because electricians or plumbers notched too much out of lvls.
Our company policy is to avoid notching of engineered wood as much as possible. I have all the product info and guides that say just that. In fact, if you notch the bottom of a glulam, you have to follow strict guidlines because the bottom chord is designed a certain way because the tension side of the beam is more important thatn the compression side.
Anyway, long story is, this framer's argument is the same old "it's always worked that way before" Sorry argument from someone who doesn't make it a habit to keep up with progress.
I've hardly ever seen a beam cut like that, if ever. They're almost always left full dimension. Also, it looks like he almost got it on top of a single stud, but not quite. We'd probably have that on a 4x4, with a steel connector of some kind bolted on.
don't anybody else figure the framer intends to sister studs in under that damn beam when he is punching out?
that is what i am seeing...
And I believe you are seeing things correctly. If he doesn't, I will.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
Hub,
I don't know about the other two guys who posted about the support of the glulam, but from my view it looks like the beam is directly over a header. Can't say for sure but when I first looked at the pic that was what I noticed.
Jon Blakemore
I had to go back and look at the picture to see what appeared to be a header to you. That is just a temporary 2x4 nailed across the face of the studs to support one end of a scaffold board. If all goes well, it will be a couple of studs under a pocketed beam by tomorrow afternoon.Kevin Halliburton
"Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will serve before kings; he will not serve before obscure men." - Solomon
jon that is a big azz beam over a double 2x4 top plate with one stud under the right side of it-
that is what i see-
show me da header baby...
doesn't matter-
shoulda coulda woulda
all this conjecture from all these esteemed minds
bullsh1T- FRAMER BLEW IT- end of story...
hub
U still gonna run this all by your engineer after he get's back?
will ya huh ... will ya??
Being the betting man that I am ... I'm betting it would pass muster as is ...
Not that I'd bet so much I'd try driving the same route from the plans ... but I'm thinking it'll be close.
But like ya said ... the overhangs matter as much if nor more ... so it wouldn't work there anyways ....
but an uneducated first glance tells me that garage would fall over even with a hoist or what ever strapped to it ....
The center of that beam pretty much just supports itself.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
If you don't mind the beam infringing on your head room if you put it in pockets .....then leave it up where it is and put a post out in front of the wall on each end to compensate for the scarf cut. You'll never miss the footprint space. Save that numbnuts $200.
Structual engineers general notes ,for houses I build,say depth of sloped
cut max. 1/3 depth of beam
regards
Nice point...even with supported beam pockets, that thing is gonna be a noodle in the middle anyway.... start cranking hoist..."hey why ain't that motor coming up...cause the beam is deflecting front to back...not down!" Ohhh sheeeet.....beam springs back......ala roadrunner and coyote...motor comes out fast and goes thru the roof.....hey, there is the skylight I wanted...honey go get some 6 mil poly...clear.....and some staples..