I’m working on a book for the TP about stair building. One chapter is on outdoor stairs, and part of that is a discussion of wood suitable for outdoor use. Has anyone used woods other than PT, cedar, redwood, or Ipe and its ilk for outdoor stairs or decks? I’m thinking of locally available species such as locust or white oak that resist decay.
Thanks,
Andy
“Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.” Robert A. Heinlein
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I think VaTom used walnut heavily on his outdoor stuff.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" I am not an Activist, I am, a Catalyst. I lay around and do nothing, until another ingredient is added"
Yup, but black walnut strikes me as a little soft for stairs. I'd be thinking either white oak or black locust. Depending on the preferred finish. Osage orange is difficult to come by here.
My fence post using (older) friends tell me that our local cedar is the longest lasting of all, once you remove the sapwood, like you need to do with any species. Longer lasting than other locals: white oak(s), black walnut, black locust, or osage orange. All of which I find very acceptable for my needs.
Only white oak(s) and black walnut are plentiful in my woodlot. Black walnut is much easier to paint.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
i haven't used it much... but my boathouse is cypress and it's got to be 40yrs old and no rot that i've seen
p
Although it is very hard to find as lumber, we use Osage Orange/Bois d'Arc very extensively for posts, foundation piers, fence cross-pieces. The heartwood simply does not rot. While it would be completely impractical for normal builder use, I would imagine that some very interesting things could be done in more exotic stairs with it. For one thing it holds an edge like stone.
I live in a floathouse and need to replace the stringers under the house. I have priced pressure treated beams 6" x 12' by 33 ft long and was shocked. I've found a source for Hemlock and Douglas Fir. Also thought of gluing up 2"x12" boards to make my own. Has anyone had any experience with anything like this?
Black Locust is one of the most naturally decay resistant woods. I saw it on a list of decay resistance. In mentioning it to my dad he said that it was common for fence posts for that reason. The list was published by a government forestry agency. I don't have the book handy but it should be on the web somewhere.
Table 1. Decay-Resistant SpeciesBaldcypress (old growth)
Catalpa
Cedar
Cherry (black)
Chestnut
Cypress (Arizona)
Juniper
Locust (black)
Mesquite
Mulberry (red)
Oak (bur, chestnut, Gambel, Oregon white, post, white)
Osage-orange
Redwood
Sassafras
Walnut (black)
Yew (Pacific)from the USDA Forest Service.
Great stuff, folks. Anybody got pictures?Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Anybody got pictures
D. Fir, single brush coat of Penta (unobtainium now except for private stashes?)
The pix are the end of the 2nd set in 33 years, replacing with steel now so I wont have to again when possibly not as able. Outdoors, Seattle area rain.
Note - the stringers are set on AL plate, the stringers are the original, 33 YO, also D fir, single brush Penta treatment with probably 3 coats of Latex paint over.
Got the steel deck all welded up, need to paint and install, will post some pix when done - all steel out of the scrap pile by the barn. Proably need to buy (ugh) some grating for the steps.
Anybody got pictures (2)
Heart Redwood. Probably pretty pricey these days. Lot of the stuff had growth rings only 1/16"
The pix is of one end of the 2x4 heart redwood walls on DWs panting beds.
Originally installed on the B-17 final assembly building roofs as part of camoflage boardwalks (Seattle). Left there for access walkways until circa 1975 when the old single pane sawtooth windows were replaced on the Plant II buildings. The walkways are pieces of 2x4 nailed to 12 ft 2x4.
Picked them up in the 'free wood lot' then, left a stack of ten 12 foot sections in the back for about 15 years uncovered, couldnt seem to bring myself to use them for firewood.
As seen, used circa 1990 for raised planting beds. There was absolutely no rot on any of the wood when installed as planting bed walls, although many of the galv nails had rusted thru.. Last 16 years the HR 2x4s have been in constant contact with wet soil and plant roots. As seen, the wet soil and plant roots have taken a bigger toll in 16 years than normal weather did in the previous 47 years. Needed to wrap it with a chanin last year to keep the sides from falling out.
Have an outdoor swing built in 1985 out of scrap 1x1.5" apitong , no decay whatsoever - again, uncovered, Seattle area. Some penta treated white oak on that also, some spots of softness.
How's that for some 'real time' pix Andy?
< DWs panting beds. >
I'm gonna' ask my DW about gettin one of those
Forrest
Here is a link to a more complete listing:http://www.woodweb.com/Resources/wood_eng_handbook/Ch03.pdf(Find Table 3–10. Grouping of some domestic and imported woods according to average heartwood decay resistance)
Great link. Thanks.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Yur Welcome...Some of those Wood Techies at the Forest Circus have it going on! Did you notice they even explore the effects of various forms of radiation on wood...Keep those gamma radiation sources away from the woodshop! 8 > {If you need numbers to go with your wood, those FPL folks in Madison have done the math.
I've been relying on them for info on wood finishes for years. It's amazing just how many myths they de-bunk. Thanks Sam Williams and company!Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
I've used black locust for some nice gates (and fence posts, garden beds, etc...). It mills up beautifully (has a golden color and nice grain). The trees grow kind of crooked though, and so you really have to cull through a pile to get nice wide boards with straight grain that won't twist like a pinwheel.
It seems to have an oil or tannin content like teak, which is hard to take a finish. I put something called "teak oil" on it, but it didn't penetrate well, and flaked off within a year. It does weather to a nice gray color though. Not sure how well it woul take paint. Might have to use some sort of conditioner/sealer first.
I really like the stuff. I'll try to snap some pics of the gates.
As a side note, my father tells a story of a carp who put a set of black locust steps on a church when he was growing up. The guy told him you hafta "cut the tree in the morning and nail it down before sunset" otherwise it's too hard to nail through. While that's not quite the case, it is hard stuff and I stuck with predrilling and stainless screws.Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Andy,
Here are two simple gates I've done with black locust. Not steps obviously, but just to reinforce the point that it mills up nice, works nice, and looks great. I think steps out of it would wear like iron.
If you'd like, I can try to find out from my father where that church is (previous post) just in case the steps are still there 60+ yrs later...
View Image
View ImageIthaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
That does look nice. Thanks for posting.
No need to find the church.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
I'm thinking of locally available species such as locust or white oak that resist decay.
Make that black locust. Honey locust isn't appropriate. Lovely wood, but not for exterior.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I have a project in the wings to replace the decking on a ~18yr old deck in southern NH. Frame is PT (and is in good shape) but the original decking was 1x4 fir. A few boards have been replaced over the years but the decking is ready for the pasture. Owners haven't yet decided what to use for the new deck. They don't want PT, and are opposed to using tropical hardwood (on moral grounds). They are considering either composite material (Trex or Weatherbest are the local favorites), or sticking with the fir. Clear, vertical grained 1x4 fir is readily available at the local yard. It seems to be a pretty common choice, not so much for open decks, but definitely on covered/screen porches.
doug fir is somewhat resistant so with vycor proteting framing..
I have Port Orford cedar on my deck/stairs. with PT frame. Have removed several 120 - 100 yo heart pine units just starting to show signs of weathering. No rot but remodeling dictated change
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Interesting. When I was in Boston at a friends house the deck they had was made of fir. Surprised the hell out of me but it looked perfect and it was far from new. This is only the second time I ever heard anyone else using fir.If Blodgett and Gunner say, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
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I'm going to be doing four porches here in mahogany any day now. All the lumber's sitting in my driveway and I even got a box of SS nail cleats for my Porta Nailer gun. seems only Porta Nail sells them. No one else carries them...not even their suppliers I think. Cost me $80 for one small box.
All the porch stairs will also be mahogany of course and some of the steps are already temporarily screwed in place w/ trim head SS screws.
See ya soon
andyC
If Blodgett and Gunner say, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
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